EPTDon't pick and choose what fits in your worldview.
Ukraine Crisis - Page 498
| Forum Index > Closed |
There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated. New policy, please read before posting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711 | ||
|
Serpest
United States603 Posts
Don't pick and choose what fits in your worldview. | ||
|
hunts
United States2113 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:28 radscorpion9 wrote: Its also part of the reason why I visit this thread less and less, and I would think many others are getting tired too. It just seems like a place for pro-Russian extremists to post their biased views. Everything presented is spinned to such a degree that its pointless to come here for any real information; its just non-stop responses to their posts which seem identical to what a troll would write. I don't think TL mods have the right to do anything by their own commandments, but I'm betting it would be way nicer and actually informative to visit this thread for 95% of the community if they were temp-banned. Yeah, would be nice, although as zatic said it would be asking too much to have t he mods keep up with this thread at the speed it goes at. I mainly come here to see what's going on since some of the community members generally post useful news updates. I've learned to completely ignore zeo and paleman unless I'm very bored and need a good laugh. I ignore most of what nunez and judicatorhabab say but once in a while they do make good points or post non fake news. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:40 Serpest wrote: Can someone shut this thread down and reopen it under more stringently worded practices? I mean, there has to be some form of proper and moderated discussion. It just seems so aggravating to come here and find nonstop hissyfits that just refuse to recognize cogent points and instead lambast everything / everyone. I thought TL.net was a place where people could civilly discuss matters with less bias than elsewhere. There's just a significant lack of common sense. It's like this thread is all about proving who has the biggest epeen -- not calmly discussing what's actually happening according to various less biased news sources. Don't pick and choose what fits in your worldview. I think people should at least stop trying to prove their point with 5 minute youtube snippets or twitter posts. The discussion would make a little more sense if everyone would try to proof their point by citing reputable news sources or public documents instead of cherry picking their information. | ||
|
Mc
332 Posts
I totally agree with you, although I give into temptation sometimes and argue with them. I think it's impossible to fix without some temp-banning, and that seems like it would be bad for TL.net's integrity. Only suggestion I have is to have a poll on members who are "disruptive" to the thread. If some high % of people vote they are excessively disruptive they get a temp-ban for some period. Seems off to me, but it would work. @nyxisto - the twitter spam from ghan is definitely excessive. The youtube videos of *raw* footage I found very useful. Propaganda videos are another matter. | ||
|
soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
nice nytimes article about the terrorists/federalists  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?ref=europe | ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:37 PaleMan wrote: radscorpion9 - thats strange Ghan spits outs "pro-western" posts like a machine gunner, so i don't know what your complaint is about Even you spotted the difference between ghan and that marigold guy. We're not talking about biased views, nobody in here is unbiased and every single person in here who claims so is a liar, nothing else. It's not about being biased though. It's about being ridiculous. You, together with zeo, are exactly like marigold. Literally no difference, just "opposite side". That's why you guys are entertainment, and people like Legal, Wonderful and other russians are people one can actually talk to. Are they biased? Sure as hell, but nobody minds. Why? Because it's not about bias. That's why people make fun of rt.com as well, fyi - not because they're biased, that's normal. It's the fact that they're not even close to reality. They don't try to "nudge" your opinion by wording, for example - they just simply leave the important parts out, or completely make up stories that nobody (not even themselves) can verify. Because "we can't say names or functions", yeah, my ass. Not to mention, you of all people crying "russophobia", is explosive comedy. The sad reality is, this thread seems like a circlejerk only because there's almost noone reliable talking for russias side. | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:53 Mc wrote: @hunts I totally agree with you, although I give into temptation sometimes and argue with them. I think it's impossible to fix without some temp-banning, and that seems like it would be bad for TL.net's integrity. Only suggestion I have is to have a poll on members who are "disruptive" to the thread. If some high % of people vote they are excessively disruptive they get a temp-ban for some period. Seems off to me, but it would work. @nyxisto - the twitter spam from ghan is definitely excessive. The youtube videos of *raw* footage I found very useful. Propaganda videos are another matter. Look, we already talked about this, and you seemed to have a different view. The twitter posts are links to breaking news. Instead of taking each article and quoting it in the thread, which takes half a minute of editing, I can copy-paste a single link and TL does the editing for me. You get a brief 144 character summary by the journalist or head of state who posted it, and you get the actual link for you to click. Instead of requiring me to post something which takes up more space in the thread and which takes up more of my time, please just click on the links that you find interesting and ignore the rest. *** Regarding the post above me, I'd like to disagree on `there's no-one to talk to on the Russian side', there have been several posters from the Russian Federation (and previously) from Eastern Ukraine with who we've had open and constructive dialogues despite divergent starting points. Reasonable people can reach reasonable outcomes. *** P.S. This thread was actually worse than usually today because it was a rather quiet day. Besides the limited operation in Slavyansk, nothing terrible happened. I think we can be thankful for our plight considering it spared a lot of lives. | ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 06 2014 05:01 m4ini wrote: The sad reality is, this thread seems like a circlejerk only because there's almost noone reliable talking for russias side. anyone from russian side with patriotic views will be considered "not reliable" instantly - this is the problem you want a russian guy who spits on his country and hates it - that will be reliable for you we actually have a lot of those in our country so have your hopes high | ||
|
Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:37 PaleMan wrote: radscorpion9 - thats strange Ghan spits outs "pro-western" posts like a machine gunner, so i don't know what your complaint is about He posts tweets and other peoples opinions. You and Zeo twist facts. I don't agree with everything said in those tweets, some of them even seems out of place But unlike you and Zeo it ain't propaganda | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 06 2014 05:13 Ramong wrote: He posts tweets and other peoples opinions. You and Zeo twist facts. I don't agree with everything said in those tweets, some of them even seems out of place But unlike you and Zeo it ain't propaganda Just for the record, neither do I. But when important actors or voices say them, it's useful to know that they are being said. That's why I also sometimes post tweets from @mfa_Russia and similar. | ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 06 2014 05:13 Ramong wrote: He posts tweets and other peoples opinions. You and Zeo twist facts. I don't agree with everything said in those tweets, some of them even seems out of place But unlike you and Zeo it ain't propaganda really? for example I posted videos of nazis numerous times (and there is no nazis as Cheerio said earlier in this thread) even from BBC and other stuff - and what now, nazis exist or someone still wants to deny this? and its propaganda to call people of Donetsk "separatists" if you call them like that other people have all the rights to call Kiev goverment 'junta" | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6310 Posts
On May 06 2014 04:53 Mc wrote: @hunts I totally agree with you, although I give into temptation sometimes and argue with them. I think it's impossible to fix without some temp-banning, and that seems like it would be bad for TL.net's integrity. Only suggestion I have is to have a poll on members who are "disruptive" to the thread. If some high % of people vote they are excessively disruptive they get a temp-ban for some period. Seems off to me, but it would work. @nyxisto - the twitter spam from ghan is definitely excessive. The youtube videos of *raw* footage I found very useful. Propaganda videos are another matter. That's some Orwellian level stuff right there On May 06 2014 05:01 m4ini wrote: The sad reality is, this thread seems like a circlejerk only because there's almost noone reliable talking for russias side. The sad reality is that the only 'reliable people' you would accept talking for the other side are the ones that agree with you. But I guess its easier to gang up on people that have a different opinion. | ||
|
Mc
332 Posts
What I find annoying is the 3~5 tweets you post at a time. You are trying to conduct, as you yourself put it, an "information-war" rather than trying discuss relevant issues in the thread. If I want a live-feed of events/opinions in E. Ukraine, I have other sources. The tweets are from random people I don't know and take up a lot of space. If I were interested in them, I could follow them and check them myself. In your defence, occasionally you post a tweet I find very interesting (like the Russian presidential council basically implying that the Crimean vote was rigged). So, I'm all for posting relevant information on the conflict but maybe not so much and information that is truly original and worth discussing. I think a few posters (aside from the pro-Russian camp) agree with me. And don't take it personally- I am fed up with the extreme amount of lies/propaganda emanating from the Russian camp, but I think there are better ways to counteract it. | ||
|
Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
On May 06 2014 05:23 PaleMan wrote: really? for example I posted videos of nazis numerous times (and there is no nazis as Cheerio said earlier in this thread) even from BBC and other stuff - and what now, nazis exist or someone still wants to deny this? It is propaganda when you present it like every pro-ukrainian or pro-maidan is somehow a Nazi. Are there nazies in Ukraine? Sure, we got them in Denmark as well. But they don't represent a majority. You keep focusing on small and insignificant groups and events like it represent the average Ukrainian. and you keep avoiding the subject of Russian propaganda in the TV and the Russian army on the border | ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 06 2014 05:30 Ramong wrote: It is propaganda when you present it like every pro-ukrainian or pro-maidan is somehow a Nazi. Are there nazies in Ukraine? Sure, we got them in Denmark as well. But they don't represent a majority. You keep focusing on small and insignificant groups and events like it represent the average Ukrainian. and you keep avoiding the subject of Russian propaganda in the TV and the Russian army on the border it looks like you aren't following the thread at all there are numerous videos of nazis beating up ppl just because they think those are anti-maidan some nazis are in Parliament and they officially expressed satisfaction when ppl were murdered in Odessa (Irina Farion for example) you can find huge amount of videos where crowd cries: "moskalyaky na gilyaku" = "hang up the russian" "moskaley na nozhi" = "russians on knives" "hto ne skachet - tot moskal" = "those who don't jump are russians" - everybody jumps (nobody wants to be hanged up, you know) maybe in Denmarks nazis don't represent majority, but in Ukraine all Euromaidan was built on nazi rhetoric i can provide hundreeds of videos like these: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbAVIsF2UuA now tell me i twist facts | ||
|
Mc
332 Posts
I need to start doing that myself. | ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
The sad reality is that the only 'reliable people' you would accept talking for the other side are the ones that agree with you. But I guess its easier to gang up on people that have a different opinion. I quite enjoyed discussing with wonderful, and we certainly didn't agree on much. You and paleman are unreasonable, completely. Even nunez admits if he's wrong with something. But here's a nice breakdown of a posting of paleman. Maybe you get the picture. anyone from russian side with patriotic views will be considered "not reliable" instantly - this is the problem you want a russian guy who spits on his country and hates it - that will be reliable for you we actually have a lot of those in our country so have your hopes high First part: legit concern, only "rejectable" by actually showing the opposite. Doesn't even matter that i think "patriotism" (from there it's a small step to nationalistic, btw) is retarded, and only an excuse to act retarded openly (goes for russia as much as it goes for america). Now, the second part of his posting. Ridiculous assumption, just stupid, and actually already rejected by "me" (nice btw, who exactly is "you", the same as .. "them"?) talking and discussing normally with LegalLord, Wonderful and the other russians. In fact, your and palemans views are as fanatic (and in your case, hysterical, the not-funny meaning) as it gets. Please tell me, what is a fanatic patriot? | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2654 Posts
| ||
|
zeo
Serbia6310 Posts
On May 06 2014 06:01 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Why can't this thread be a bit more like the Syria thread? As said before there's almost no real facts posted anymore and the thread is just getting worse and worse. Because one side believes that chanting 'ban all those who don't agree with us' is a legit way to have a discussion. Anyway, get back on topic people. | ||
|
soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
The guardian | ||
| ||
