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On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No?
Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities.
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On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities.
Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely.
Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country.
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I think the Ukraine has already lost by being forced to make a decision. No matter what they decide it will bring problems. Also this is not a rational discussion due to the large russian minority in the Ukraine and past experiences with Russia. During the orange revolution and afterwards there was also a geographical divide as far as I remember.
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On December 16 2013 22:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely. Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country.
EU citizenship would help 
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On December 16 2013 22:12 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely. Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country. EU citizenship would help
To be honest, that won't be easy :D Ukrainian diploma means nothing in EU, so actually i'm uneducated person, which makes my chances close to zero. Although the easiest places to move in for me would be Canada or Austalia, if am not mistaken.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On December 16 2013 22:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:12 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 22:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely. Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country. EU citizenship would help To be honest, that won't be easy :D Ukrainian diploma means nothing in EU, so actually i'm uneducated person, which makes my chances close to zero. Although the easiest places to move in for me would be Canada or Austalia, if am not mistaken.
go for Australia imo
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On December 16 2013 22:29 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 22:12 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 22:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely. Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country. EU citizenship would help To be honest, that won't be easy :D Ukrainian diploma means nothing in EU, so actually i'm uneducated person, which makes my chances close to zero. Although the easiest places to move in for me would be Canada or Austalia, if am not mistaken. go for Australia imo
Austalia is a half planet away, that scares me a bit, but the laws and PM of Austalia is a smart person, on the other hand we got a huge diaspora in Canada and very good clime. My young age fits both countrys pretty much.
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On December 16 2013 22:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:12 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 22:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 21:59 Crushinator wrote:On December 16 2013 21:47 zeo wrote:
What about Georgia?
Yes those countries are in the EU but realistically speaking they pose no threat and they joined these organizations when Russia was still 'weak' (and Yeltsin let them do it). This is a very different time. No? Ukraine is not Georgia, when Russia uses force to stop Ukraine from allying with the west, there will be massive consequences. It is pretty much out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing more than embargo, no war or something like that, relashionship between ukrainian and russian people will remain unchanged, but no more cooperation between government, and no more trading cooperation most likely. Any special terms for Netherlands citizenship? Wanna get old in ur wonderful country. EU citizenship would help To be honest, that won't be easy :D Ukrainian diploma means nothing in EU, so actually i'm uneducated person, which makes my chances close to zero. Although the easiest places to move in for me would be Canada or Austalia, if am not mistaken.
You could potentially look to work for a company that operates both in Ukraine and somewhere in Europe. Eventually you could transfer from the Ukranian site to a European one, and after some years get EU citizenship which would allow you to go anywhere in EU. It would be a slow process, but it might be worth looking into.
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On December 16 2013 15:40 PaleMan wrote:
so we banned that commercials of how its cool to be gay in our country
You didn't just ban gay commercials, you banned any type of information that implies that "gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships". If that is not discrimination encouraged by the law than what is it? You also banned the right "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights".
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On December 17 2013 01:07 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 15:40 PaleMan wrote:
so we banned that commercials of how its cool to be gay in our country
You didn't just ban gay commercials, you banned any type of information that implies that "gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships". If that is not discrimination encouraged by the law than what is it? You also banned the right "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights".
When McCain landed in Kiev he rushed to meet Oleh Tyahnybog, a representative of one of the leading opposition political parties, Svoboda. An extreme nationalist party, Svoboda members are fond of wearing t-shirts with slogans such as “Beat the zhids!” using a derogatory term for Jews.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On December 17 2013 01:07 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 15:40 PaleMan wrote:
so we banned that commercials of how its cool to be gay in our country
You didn't just ban gay commercials, you banned any type of information that implies that "gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships". If that is not discrimination encouraged by the law than what is it? You also banned the right "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights".
you will be very surprised but gay relationships are NOT equal to heterosexual relationships
and do you know who stated this?
not me, not EU, not USA - NATURE itself says it
heterosexual relationship can produce life, gay relationship not
how can they be equal?
gays and lesbians in Russia have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals, so there is no need "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights"
there is a lot of gays and lesbians on highest positions - ministers, businessmen, pop stars etc. nobody holds off their careers because they are gays or lesbians
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 16 2013 17:54 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 17:33 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 17:20 Roman666 wrote:On December 16 2013 16:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On December 16 2013 15:41 darkness wrote:On December 16 2013 13:38 Danglars wrote:On December 16 2013 13:11 hp.Shell wrote:
American mass media doesn't make it easy to get world news, even biased reports. They are more interested in letting us know about mandatory healthcare and what Miley Cyrus has been twerking on recently. To find news like this takes digging through a haystack of trivial stuff.
It's pretty scary to see tanks pointing to the inside of any place. I will hope for minimum violence. Foreign affairs stories are most likely puff pieces or the super-intellectual nuanced stances of this and that. Not very much analysis of the big power players and power plays in Eastern Europe and Asia. I don't know how much of this is due to the whole Putin/Obama contrast. What's the latest? Are there still massive protests, how lies the balance of power on resignations/elections, what's the possible 1 year outlooks? Some 200,000 people have rallied in the Ukrainian capital Kiev to protest against President Viktor Yanukovych's refusal to sign a landmark EU deal. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25390654I've also read that Russia has put some "be careful" pressure. In specific, they are told to have banned Ukraine's chocolate. Clearly, Ukraine is torn apart between EU and Russia. Russia, like communists, wants not to lose power, possibly at all cost. :D And yes, I'm sure what I talk about communists. As you can see, my country had (and still has) to suffer from those morons. Yup, but the chocolate was only the first ban, officially they told that some toxin was found in chocolate, suddenly was found, after 10 years of transitions, afterwords, many other stuff was also banneed, aswell as aircraft engines/milk and food products/light industry products. Many many workfolks been fired due to this export problems. There is no place we can trade our products, Russia was the biggest export country we got, (and still it is), I actually cannot imagine that some German family gonna buy our milk everyday, or some Czech buddies gonna drink ukrainian beer in a pubs, I didn't had an opportunity to collate our products with european analog, but I suppose that european one is at least a bit better. And to improve our production facilities, light and heavy industry, chemical and food industry, we need a huge credit, not sure that Germany gonna agree with that, u guys already have some problems with Greece, Spain and Portugal, which economy is also shitty atm. What also Ukraine needs are stable and predictable export partners, not a destination where the whole trade can be stopped overnight. I remember meat embargo Russia placed on Poland, citing lack of certificates. Guess what? Government has changed, with it the line of government towards Russia has changed and embargo was gone. This is how Russia "negotiates" and "trades" with other countries. Exactly, this is the way how Russian gov. forcing neighbours for "right" decisions about parthnership, but also u should not assault russian ppl, they are the same victims of their gov. as we are here, we are almost equally struggling. The main problem or Ukraine and Russian is totally corrupted politicians, and it's also one interesting thing that 99% of countrys finances been accumulated by 20 richest dudes, the rest 1% of cash splits for 40 million ppl, strange enough? We are mostly good and kind people, but our politicians are mostly bandits and thieves, that's why I'm srsly thinking about emigration  This makes no sense. Do you actually expect Russia to continue to allow themselves to serve as an export market for Ukraine's industry while waving it off into the sunset as it integrates with Europe?
If Russia doesn't want to integrate into world economy they shouldn't have entered the WTO, but they did. So the argument that they can't "allow themselves to serve as an export market for Ukraine's industry" doesn't work this way. The case with Ukraine is clearly a discrimination. You (Ukraine) are moving away from us? Fine. Our imperialistic plans got ruined, our feelings of self-worth got hurt. We will make you pay. And those Russian customers that prefer to buy Ukrainian products, because they are often more competitive than Russian ones, will have to pay as well. That's how much we want you to pay.
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United States43977 Posts
"Sure they're not allowed to defend themselves or their lifestyles publicly, in fact, they're explicitly barred from doing so, but it's okay because the society which decided that it needed a special law to stop gays from saying they're equal treats gays equally anyway so they don't need to claim equality."
Fucking Russia man. You couldn't pay me to live there.
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Please PaleMan, stop talking, you are giving the circle jerkers free ammunition.
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On December 17 2013 01:24 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 01:07 Cheerio wrote:On December 16 2013 15:40 PaleMan wrote:
so we banned that commercials of how its cool to be gay in our country
You didn't just ban gay commercials, you banned any type of information that implies that "gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships". If that is not discrimination encouraged by the law than what is it? You also banned the right "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights". you will be very surprised but gay relationships are NOT equal to heterosexual relationships and do you know who stated this? not me, not EU, not USA - NATURE itself says it heterosexual relationship can produce life, gay relationship not how can they be equal? gays and lesbians in Russia have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals, so there is no need "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights" there is a lot of gays and lesbians on highest positions - ministers, businessmen, pop stars etc. nobody holds off their careers because they are gays or lesbians
And christians aren't equal to jews because they eat pork.
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Czech Republic4646 Posts
On December 17 2013 01:24 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 01:07 Cheerio wrote:On December 16 2013 15:40 PaleMan wrote:
so we banned that commercials of how its cool to be gay in our country
You didn't just ban gay commercials, you banned any type of information that implies that "gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships". If that is not discrimination encouraged by the law than what is it? You also banned the right "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights". you will be very surprised but gay relationships are NOT equal to heterosexual relationships and do you know who stated this? not me, not EU, not USA - NATURE itself says it heterosexual relationship can produce life, gay relationship not how can they be equal? gays and lesbians in Russia have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals, so there is no need "to speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights" there is a lot of gays and lesbians on highest positions - ministers, businessmen, pop stars etc. nobody holds off their careers because they are gays or lesbians
So infertile heterosexual couples are also not equal to fertile ones ? Anyway Russia in terms of rights of any kind is rather backwards country and saying that gays have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals is nothing but a joke. Once you will allow gay couples to at least have civil unions so they can find out in hospitals how their loved ones are faring, then come back and talk about gays having some rights in Russia.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On December 17 2013 01:29 zeo wrote:
Please PaleMan, stop talking, you are giving the circle jerkers free ammunition.
nope, i have massive amount of fun
brainwashed ppl too funny i can't resist and poke em
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On December 17 2013 01:28 KwarK wrote:
"Sure they're not allowed to defend themselves or their lifestyles publicly, in fact, they're explicitly barred from doing so, but it's okay because the society which decided that it needed a special law to stop gays from saying they're equal treats gays equally anyway so they don't need to claim equality."
Fucking Russia man. You couldn't pay me to live there.
Depends of price u get paid to live there :D It's not that horrible, belive me, ppl mostly don't even care about gays and etc, all that gay ban laws are focusing to desract population from REAL problems, problems with economy, demography, medecin and ecology. Ur position looks very awkward.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On December 17 2013 01:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 01:28 KwarK wrote:
"Sure they're not allowed to defend themselves or their lifestyles publicly, in fact, they're explicitly barred from doing so, but it's okay because the society which decided that it needed a special law to stop gays from saying they're equal treats gays equally anyway so they don't need to claim equality."
Fucking Russia man. You couldn't pay me to live there. Depends of price u get paid to live there :D It's not that horrible, belive me, ppl mostly don't even care about gays and etc, all that gay ban laws are focusing to desract population from REAL problems, problems with economy, demography, medecin and ecology. Ur position looks very awkward.
i don't know how it is in Ukraine but amount of gay clubs in Saint-Petersburg and Moscow makes me feel like heterosexual minority
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On December 17 2013 01:34 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 01:29 zeo wrote:
Please PaleMan, stop talking, you are giving the circle jerkers free ammunition. nope, i have massive amount of fun brainwashed ppl too funny i can't resist and poke em
But you are just giving these people 50 ways to derail the thread. You could have the best argument in the world and without a shadow of a doubt show that those people protesting are wrong and the typical response on this forum would be to quote what you said about gay people and bury the parts of the thread that make them feel uncomfortable in pages and pages of derails.
You tell someone that John McCain got a medal from the military in Libya for spreading freedom on the same day that same military declared Sharia law and the first thing they will say is 'hur der no evul dick-tator, job wel dun'
Don't feed the troll for fucks sake
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EPT
