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On June 14 2013 09:58 Dodgin wrote:
I'll check back with you in a few days when Dreamhack is finished and we can compare their viewers to Stockholm's, everything else you said is speculation or irrelevant(youtube numbers? lol)
Those numbers actually make people money off of e-sports. Perhaps you would like to explain to us simple folk how to make a living off of e-sports without youtube and twitch? Don't dodge, you're going good so far.
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On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing.
The GSL has not changed. There's just less of them.
I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page check the right sidebar...
When MLG comes around it will be 7 weekends in a row of major SC2 tournaments
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On June 14 2013 10:31 GhostFiber wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 09:58 Dodgin wrote:
I'll check back with you in a few days when Dreamhack is finished and we can compare their viewers to Stockholm's, everything else you said is speculation or irrelevant(youtube numbers? lol) Those numbers actually make people money off of e-sports. Perhaps you would like to explain to us simple folk how to make a living off of e-sports without youtube and twitch? Don't dodge, you're going good so far.
Youtube numbers have never been relevant to the esports scene, there's no point to discuss them. The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
What Twitch numbers specifically are down? Player streams? Smaller tournaments? WCS matches? You're going to have to be more specific or I can't comment on it.
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As someone who went from being a hardcore sc2 viewer to becoming a much, much more casual one I have to agree in saying that WCS has really made things a whole lot more difficult to follow.
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520 Posts
The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
that seems like a problem. Maybe more effort should be made to find out why people willing to watch starcraft on youtube will not watch esport starcraft and perhaps find a way to fix that to get some of them.
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On June 14 2013 10:35 Witten wrote:
As someone who went from being a hardcore sc2 viewer to becoming a much, much more casual one I have to agree in saying that WCS has really made things a whole lot more difficult to follow.
I just don't get how this is possible. It unified everything into a single system. How can that possibly be more difficult to follow?
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On June 14 2013 06:25 mango_destroyer wrote:
I actually feel it is a lot easier to follow and there is content every day when the season starts rolling.
Yeah, I agree completely. I have watched more SC2 so far in 2013 than in all of 2012.
There's actually a ton of content.
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Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not.
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I noticed that a lot of players stopped streaming. Sometimes I log on and there is like 1 or 2 streamers when it used to be 10+
Like right now...
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On June 14 2013 10:38 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
that seems like a problem. Maybe more effort should be made to find out why people willing to watch Starcraft on Youtube will not watch esport Starcraft and perhaps find a way to fix that to get some of them.
I think It's simply people who use Youtube as their primary entertainment source versus people who don't use Youtube as their primary entertainment source, the gap between the communities has attempted to be bridged before multiple times with varying degrees to success. Shoutcraft America was promoted on Totalbiscuit and Husky's Youtube channels and their first day received very good viewership. If you can convince people on Youtube that twitch is a good place to hang out you make the audience bigger. For a lot of people the only thing they know is Youtube, I guess you could call it a form of ignorance, why go somewhere else if they've always been using Youtube?
I actually had a friend in that exact situation, one evening we were chatting and I mentioned something about Starcraft in our group skype chat to another friend who watches GSL, he then said something like " oh yeah I haven't watched Starcraft in a while I guess I'll go check out Husky". This was only a few months ago, he had gone that entire time watching sc2 on Youtube not knowing there was a broader scene behind it. Having Husky cast at MLG's and advertising it to his Youtube audience helps a lot with bridging the gap, unfortunately he's not going to be at the next one.
There's also the convenience factor, It's easy to look up a Youtube VOD and find a game quickly, people who are interested in sc2 might just go there and find something that way since It's such a huge website. Twitch's audience is growing but it doesn't have that kind of reach yet.
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On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not.
Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ".
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Maybe i'm just growing tired of SC2, but I rarely seem to watch it now a days.
I used to be an avid watcher, but now tournaments just seem boring. With out more interviews and, in general, content around tournaments, I'm going to feel even more detached (LR's are not enough). One of my biggest problems, to sum this up, is the story lines. With WCS we may know who the 'best' player is...but we know nothing about that player...which gives me no incentive to pay attention to them as I know nothing about their journey to become the best.
I would love to see a tournament give me a reason to give an extra cheer, other than to see a good game (which a lot are not).
PS. Storylines come from anywhere, it can be the players nationality, race, stats, history, playstyle, personality, etc... A good storyline combines several (many more than 1, which is what we generally get) of these to tell a tale that makes the player interesting, even to fans who do not know them. With a good storyline we can attach ourselves to the game at hand whether it's told by the tournament, teams, casters, or the players themselves...give us something
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I think the problem is the foreign scene. It's almost like almost all the foreigners have given up on trying to be the best 
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People are talking like there's a known issue with a decline in interest etc. There is not. There is record viewership. If you're having a different experience that's unfortunate, but stop trying to project it on all of us.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I can understand people having a hard time following SC2, because most people are not used to watching it during weekdays. You have WCS KR, EU, AM, Proleague, GSTL, and some other weekday leagues (RSL, ATC, etc) now, with many games occurring over an extended period of time. Compare this with 2012, when many of the tournaments (MLG, IPL, DH) were weekender, 3 day tournaments. You only had to pay attention for 3 days, or check the results only once, and you knew exactly what happened. Now you have to follow the tournament for a span of months to know what's happening.
That inherently makes things more difficult to follow, because it takes more effort. But is this a bad thing? Heck no. We get more content on more days, in a unified system now.
People who are confused about the system: read about it. It's incredibly simple. Basically there is a GS-like tournament for KR/AM/EU, and at the end of each season the top players from each region battle it out. That's it.
People who think there are "no storylines": Have you watched WCS EU? It was the tournament that hyped personalities and gave the most insight into players. It was great. One of the best things to come out of it was Jurgen, a running gag that played all the way up to the season finals. The season finals' lounge was also amazing for getting to know players.
People who think we are getting bad games: Seriously? Did you see Flash versus Fantasy yesterday? Basically Flash goes tanks in TvT to ward off hellbat drops, and goes directly into BATTLECRUISERS to combat mech. Fantasy gets surprised by this, and since he can't regain air control, he goes WIDOW MINES TO BEAT BATTLECRUISERS. HoTS has been very varied and creative. It has been very easy to find great games.
And to everyone who feels "SC2 is dying omgomg": stop being so damn lazy. I'm not entirely happy with WCS either, but if you're going to make complaints, at least make sure you've put in enough effort to actually have a reason to think the way you do. Because most of you seem like you don't. If you've just lost interest, fine. That's understandable. But don't blame the scene when you've not put in the effort.
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There needs to be an ESPN for sc2.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On June 14 2013 11:17 lorestarcraft wrote:
There needs to be an ESPN for sc2.
http://wcs.battle.net has video highlights, recaps, and more each weekday.
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On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ".
True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events for the month in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
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Canada16217 Posts
If you are having trouble follow SC2 competitive scene then you aren't looking in the right places. TL calender, Liquipedia, & WCS home page is all you need although you could probably just follow it through the TL sidebar.
On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
If you look on Liquipedia on the right hand side it only shows all the major/premier leagues which is you where you can choose what you want to watch.
edit: there's also a TL twitter bot that tweets when events go live: https://twitter.com/TLEvents
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On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
You're seriously going to complain about one extra click? It could not be simpler, you see the liquipedia text and click " Premier SC2 Tournaments". It's not possible to have entire summaries on the sidebar because there's not enough room for it.
This thread is turning into me teaching people how to follow esports, I think I'll stop now.
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EPT
