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Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start.
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yeah they wanted it to be that way.
they think hard to follow creates great story arcs...
i look forward to hsc and dh more than ever!
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I think you have some legitimate concerns, but I also feel you're overextending in your complaints.
http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en
This is important pretty much resolves some of issues.
The structure and play is definitely difficult to keep track and I feel it could use more linearity.
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Same here. I watch innovation and flash games, and nothing else anymore. Why? Because there are 100 qualifiers, then mass tournaments, etc. WCS made things really worse imo 
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The whole WCS schedule is confusing, yeah, but as long as you look at the sidebar and check the Featured News section you won't really miss anything important, and there's typically PL every night.
Well at the end of WoL people were complaining about an oversaturation of tournaments, so eventually we'll find a balance between too many and too few.
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I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing.
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On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing.
DeMuslim Fighting!!!
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Aside from the Kespa sc2 proleague, i would say the only other year round event is WCS. it's kind of too bad that they disbanded GSL but we still do have WCS korea so those matches are usually good. There are also still lans that many players attend, such as dreamhack and MLG (i think?) and those weekends are packed with games. For me i've always followed the Kespa PL and it's always been awesome so the rest of the changes don't bother me so much, however there has been a lot of restructuring of the sc2 professional scene recently so i can see how it would be confusing 
its too bad NASL got canceled cause they had a very straightforward season type of play that resulted in good games for the whole season... there have to be other kind of year round tournaments going on though that i'm just not aware of... CSL maybe? i think i'm starting to see what you are saying about sc2 scene not being newbie friendly anymore XD where is husky and the other fun casters??
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I personally like one standard tournament (WCS) held over the span of a month or two compared to GSL doing its own thing and MLG doing its thing etc.. It's easier to keep track of statistics and storylines
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On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing.
Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2.
I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake
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I think proleague ended up being a big letdown for the scene. I know its not the casters faults alone, but honestly if they put 1/2 the effort into production and casting for proleague that they do for Korea or somewhat match the GSL level production for that matter, things would be SO much better. The games are fresh, so many different strategies, ideas. And stories could easily be created. But instead we basically have fantasy vs flash.. SKT Protosses owning and EGTL....well yeah. I hope for the future that this becomes better bc it would be the single best thing to happen to the scene especially with Kespa players kind of taking over at this point in talent level overall. I always enjoy the games themselves ( even other races mirrors which i never enjoy elsewhere really), but its so much wasted potential there!
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Hm I don't know, WCS S1 just finished and we will get DH/HSC/MLG the next 3 weekends before WCS S2 starts again (ro32 KR actually starts next week already). I think they managed it perfectly with having those 3 tournaments inbetween WCS seasons. I think it's pretty easy to follow WCS now and keep an eye out for MLG/DH/IEM etc. on empty weekends. But I have to agree that the hype is not the same as before.
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On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake
Me too
Maybe we're just old geezers though.
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Yeah its compete shit. Just this last weekend was the WCS finals and I didnt even know it occurred.
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At the top of the page click features/ events. Then team events if you want info on Pro League/ GSTL etc.
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What changed is that It's harder to follow the Korean scene.When he had GSL-GSTL it was pretty simple.Now we have WCS Korea run by 2 different organizations with different format,we have all the kespa players,we have GSTL and proleague and if someone just started following the scene he's gonna be like wtf is going on?
Other than that i think it's fine.WCS EU and AM should be pretty easy to follow and then there is a number of weekend tournaments that you might or might not care about.
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Yes, I do believe it's gotten harder to watch. It's more structured, but that doesn't make it more enjoyable nor does it create storylines IMO.
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No, it's not too hard to follow. It's easier than ever.
You have WCS for all three regions and that's about it for individual leagues.
Then you have Proleague for team league.
Then there are the weekend LANs (MLG, DH. WCS Global finals etc).
And then there are online tournaments like Acer Teamstory Cup or RSL (that, to be honest, not a lot of people care about).
So if you want to follow SC2 nowadays, you pick up one or two WCS regions (depending on how much time you have) and if you want/have time, also Proleague (or GSTL, but imo it's worse - that's just my opinion though). And that's about it.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 14 2013 05:55 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake Me too Maybe we're just old geezers though.
I don't know, I see creative strategies and aggression aplenty, more or less every. Maybe (probably) I watch more SC2 than you and different tournaments, but there's no lack of new stuff. Of course there are boring, defensive and turtly games, but don't try to tell me WC3 and Brood War didn't both have utterly boring games.
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On June 14 2013 05:55 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake Me too Maybe we're just old geezers though.
Don't ... say that!
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Most tournament pools are so diluted that I generally only tune in for finals anymore, unless of course Flash or Innovation are playing.
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On June 14 2013 06:00 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:55 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake Me too Maybe we're just old geezers though. Don't ... say that!
I'm only 22 and I agree. So you're not too old....yet. I literally haven't watched a game since HoTS came out. I was super excited but the game has just gotten really stale. Without turning it too much into a how the game should be thread I personally don't like the type of micro and macro compared to BW or other rts games. It's not fun to watch.
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I don't know, everything seems fine to me... open TL, quick look at calendar and there you go... SPL games always have a fix scheduled then you have the occasional week end tournaments which are always listed on TL with preview and stuff. No complains here.
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Were some of you guys weren't around during 2012? I feel as if it is more organized than ever before because of WCS and proleague. You follow the players you like, you know when and where it is, and that is all. Seems easy enough for me, it used to be difficult, now it is easy!
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There is this amazing thing on teamliquid called Liquipedia. It is quite mind blowing with how they update all tournaments in real time and how they also have a link to WCS PORTAL. WCS portal allows you to see exact timing and count downs to the next matches. I am sorry for being mean but if you put in 5 minutes of effort Teamliquid.net this amazing website can answer all your questions with its SEARCH feature and LIQUIPEDIA
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The bigger issue here i think is the amount of content.
While there were alot fo big tournaments in 2011, it was a weekend thing you would watch (like UFC), and that you didnt need to follow for a long time as it would finish in 2-3 days.
Now you have 3 leagues (WCS NA, WCS EU, WCS KR) running over the course of the week, with an amount of content that you wont be able to watch unless all you do in a day is watch StarCraft. You also get Proleague, running 4-5 days a week.
In the end the WCS Tournament is totally uninteresting (IMHO), as the only one you need to watch to know who is going to win it all is the korean WCS (we keep seeing the big faces dominating there in Flash, Soulkey, Innovation and sOs).
The local scene that greatly benefited from all the tournaments that went in 2011 is now gone (we saw a lot of non-koreans in top 3 finishes), a feat that is going extinct as koreans get further and further ahead.
In the end, while there are some interesting stories of success from foreigners, even if they do happen they have become uninteresting because of the amount of games played over the course of a week.
Less is more. The fact that we have more content doesn't make it better content, rather i think it has made it a lot more uninteresting now that we get to see those players compete every single week.
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It's pretty hard to follow tbh, I don't even understand how Challenger and premier league work. I just watch my favorite player and that's about it, besides that you will need 8 hours a day to watch all game and tournamnets, WCS brings out alot of content but way too fast, and now we won't see world wide players in MLG. DreamHack and GSL. I remember when Jinro was GSL ent to dreamhack and played MLG as well, now this is imposible since MLG and Dreamhack are qualifier tournaments for WCS, but I guess blizz can do whatever they want.
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Seems easy enough to me. And for those talking about boring games, do you guys not remember PvT during Katrina era. Or, turtle on 2/3 base into carrier days? Or Andromeda? Talk about rose-colored glasses.
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For me, it's a lot better right now. Didn't buy GSL pass before and couldn't watch it live. Now, there is lot of contents, HOTS is much better than WOL and the BL/Infestor was soo boring.
Kespa players raised the level of play by a big margin and I know a lot of them.
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On June 14 2013 06:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:55 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake Me too Maybe we're just old geezers though. I don't know, I see creative strategies and aggression aplenty, more or less every. Maybe (probably) I watch more SC2 than you and different tournaments, but there's no lack of new stuff. Of course there are boring, defensive and turtly games, but don't try to tell me WC3 and Brood War didn't both have utterly boring games.
Well sure there were boring games played, but I also think there were more exciting games played overall compared to sc2 by A LOT. It used to be every major iem or wcg or blizzard tournament or w/e, you got extremely fresh and intense games played out of all the top players. I don't really feel that way with SC2. Could just be old man nostalgia talking (I'm 27 lol).
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SC2 is dead, man.
I watched Flash vs Fantasy the other day: totally conventional strats, boring gameflow overall, too defensive and stuff, not enough foreigners in the game, not enough storylines, not enough heroes and legends and roshan and tanks, etc, etc..
SC2 is dead.
+ Show Spoiler +Edit: Lol, over 9000 posts, and I still write shitposts like this one, haha :D
User was warned for this post
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Hmm I dont recognize your problems; but that may be because I follow the secene...
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On June 14 2013 06:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:55 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 14 2013 05:51 Dingodile wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:
I think what is needed are some truly creative strategies at the top level and or some foreigner heroes to bust into the scene and start taking games off top koreans. I do agree that the tournament structure is a tad...confusing. Biggest factor for me to watch. sc2 doesn't have it, WoL and probably HotS too. sc2 is a way too defensive rts game, not interesting/nice to watch, although i have fun to play sc2. I really miss the old times with sc:bw, wc3, cs1.6 & quake Me too Maybe we're just old geezers though. I don't know, I see creative strategies and aggression aplenty, more or less every. Maybe (probably) I watch more SC2 than you and different tournaments, but there's no lack of new stuff. Of course there are boring, defensive and turtly games, but don't try to tell me WC3 and Brood War didn't both have utterly boring games.
is it weird that my favorite BW MU to watch was tvt?
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On June 14 2013 06:13 ZenithM wrote:SC2 is dead, man. I watched Flash vs Fantasy the other day: totally conventional strats, boring gameflow overall, too defensive and stuff, not enough foreigners in the game, not enough storylines, not enough heroes and legends and roshan and tanks, etc, etc.. SC2 is dead. + Show Spoiler +Edit: Lol, over 9000 posts, and I still write shitposts like this one, haha :D
It's not dead, there are plenty of fans and players still into it....oh wait it's zenith, /sarcasm goggles needed :D
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On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start.
I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint...
WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that.
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On June 14 2013 05:36 Torte de Lini wrote:I think you have some legitimate concerns, but I also feel you're overextending in your complaints. http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/enThis is important pretty much resolves some of issues. The structure and play is definitely difficult to keep track and I feel it could use more linearity.
World Tour Circuit my brother!
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Actually I have no problems to follow the scene at all just by using TL and thanks to HOTS, we have plenty of amazing games to watch.
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I actually feel it is a lot easier to follow and there is content every day when the season starts rolling.
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I sort of agree with the op on this one.Sc2 at the very beggining had tennis/atp type structure with major tournaments at many times of the year in which all the players would compete.And this was quite fitting for an individual sport since individual sports regularly have big tourneys and not leagues
Nowadays its mostly a football/basketball type structure with that wcs thingy going on.I personally like the tournament structure way more as it promotes individual hype and starpower.Also it is a lot easier to follow since in regular sports most individual sports such as tennins or even boxing and mma have individual big tourneys and not year long leagues.The way i see starcraft is staying at home on a friday/saturdya night and watching the best players in the world duke it out in an elimination tournament.But in the end I guess it is just a preference type thingy.I enjoyed the old ppv mlgs and old style dreamhacks and ironsquids.They sort of had their own personality.
Also the the way blizzard butchered the proscene by having premier/not wcs events is discusting.Throwing dreamhack and nasl probably some of the most beloved tourneys out there was a very poor decisison.I used to rememeber watching nasl more than mlg simply because of ammount of fun and personality everyone was having in the studio.Anyway its blizard decsion.
The way I see it they could have had just an administrative role like giving each tournament some points based on the ammount of prizepool and have the top 20 players with the most points duke it out in the global finals at the end of the year.I really do not think that a yearlong league solves anything.And the viewership sort of confirms it.
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On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that.
I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them...
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Even if WCS Korea is hold by two organizations, every single WCS Korean VOD is still on Gomtv.net. I don't know how is that more difficult to follow than before. It's the same.
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GSL still gets front page previews for every match day, foreign tournament coverage could be better I agree with that. WCS is easy to follow, a lot easier than following 7-8 different premier tournament circuits operating independently of each other. It's not the fault of the scene that you don't know the players because you stopped watching, go check the Power Rank to get a good idea of who the current top players are. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415936
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Well, when you don't pay attention, don't get upset if things aren't like they used to. Despite your complaints, SC2 are getting some of the highest viewer-numbers in it's history at the moment. There's nothing strange in your interest waning and waxing, but change isn't dangerous.
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Russian Federation325 Posts
Since WCS finals there's nothing to watch except Proleague (it has a bit boring production, so normally you watch only highlighted games). WCS AM challenger league isn't really top-tier and I don't see familiar names there. Can't wait for Dreamhack and GSL Code A/Code S.
I would like to have non-stop GSL action 7 days a week.
Edit: ah we have OSL instead of Code S this season. Hope it will be on the same level.
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On June 14 2013 06:29 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that. I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them...
I went to the community news section and found 4 threads referencing the upcoming Dreamhack in about 10 seconds
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416841 (dota)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416835
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415733
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416778
There's also a featured preview now since the tournament is about to start: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417057
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What happened to the sc2 compeittive scene? -- Same question that I'm asking myself. I was initially looking for more SC2 games and content because I thought there's not enough SC2. Then WCS happened and now it suddenly feels like there is too much. After the WCS finals I thought we will get a few weeks break but then you now have these qualifiers going on for the next season. I'd like WCS/qualifiers have a few weeks off (or a month) between seasons to let me digest what just happened. At the same time some smaller tournaments could squeeze through and we will still have sometime to savor those tourneys.
With WCS EU, KR, NA, WCS finals, qualifiers starting immediately, Proleague, player streams and the upcoming tournaments like Dreamhack, I feel like I'm drowning from too much events. Still trying to watch all of them though but my interest isn't way up where I'd like it to be.
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On June 14 2013 06:33 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:29 theking1 wrote:On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that. I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them... I went to the community news section and found 4 threads referencing the upcoming Dreamhack in about 10 seconds http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416841 (dota) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416835http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415733http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416778There's also a featured preview now since the tournament is about to start: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417057
Just saw the featured preview.my bad.Although the article would deserve a big picture in the main scrolling thingy on the front page of tl.
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How can you complain about not being familiar with the players when YOU stopped watching, and while you were gone an entire organization of players slowly integrated and introduced themselves to the scene via the GSL and Proleague?
I have no idea what OP is talking about, professional SC2 has never been easier to follow than it is right now.
There's the overarching tournament (WCS Championship) where players qualify via points earned from WCS America, WCS Europe and WCS Korea.
There's the weekend tournaments that give some WCS points to help contestants possibly qualify for WCS Championship Tournament (MLG, Dreamhack) and those that don't award WCS points at all (Homestory Cup)
And then there's the Korean teamleagues that occur regularly throughout the week: Proleague (KeSPA team league) and GSTL (GOM/eSF team league)
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I think the scene is really linear and easy to follow right now. WCS may not be the best thing in the world but it does give you a very easy to follow system. Every region has its own tournament which leads up to the finals. How much more simple can you get?
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I remember being hyped about MLG and DH watching streams 24/7. You had one or two days with excitement peaking very fast.
Nowadays you have ongoing tourneys (SPL,WCS, Qualifiers) every day where somehow every game matters but the final is so far you cant even feel tense if you are not rooting for someone. The format doesnt provide momentum building up and just pukes out game after game with the best players, which is getting dull very fast.
The reason is obvious, you get tons of hours of content for the same money, players can prepare, you can prepare productionvalue and after half a years theres your big final everyone is waiting for.
Better investement, less enjoyable (for me).
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we certainly have some presentation issues,
We need to make tournaments easier to understand e. g. graphics and better overview how the whole qualification system maps out.
imho SPL here is currently the best because it has a clear format and easy to understand and follow.
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close thread pls. verbal diarrhea
User was warned for this post
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I dont think there is a problem here, I follow every tournament which I like, every player I like. I think things are pretty simple, but maybe just for me. And tbh, NASL, at least for me, wasnt something ultra special, was watching only the final games. And HoTS is pretty nice so far, I love it.
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On June 14 2013 06:30 larse wrote:
Even if WCS Korea is hold by two organizations, every single WCS Korean VOD is still on Gomtv.net. I don't know how is that more difficult to follow than before. It's the same.
As long as being suscribed to GomTV gives me access to all korean individual leagues, I'm happy.
I agree with OP though. You know things aren't going smoothly when top korean teams are going broke.
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I guess I agree that it's harder to hype something and get excited about it when it's happening constantly. And WCS really is constant, either qualifiers or regionals or finals are happening all year. I don't think it's harder to follow though, WCS provides a good structure. It is harder to get excited though. Watching WCS AM is just anti-hype, with the complete lack of live viewers and mediocre production at best. People can be really enthusiastic about something for a weekend when they can see thousands of nerds cheering live. It's much harder to keep that enthusiasm up for an entire season worth of games, when it's just you sitting in front of a computer watching a couple of guys sit in front of computers.
Also, WCS annoys me personally. Since a lot of it is during the week, none of the regions broadcast at a timezone I can watch. I can always watch VODs I guess, but I would way prefer to see live events.
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I do feel like the foreign competitive scene is at an all-time low. There was a time where some foreigners could compete at a high level, and foreign tournaments were interesting because of that (you had a mix of top Koreans and top foreigners but foreigners were kind of on par). Now the introduction of Kespa to SC2 has redefined high level, and even eSF Koreans who used to compete in foreign tournaments choose not to go there as much to be able to practice and keep up with the Kespa pace. Or they go to foreign tournaments to grab the easy money ;D
This all results in the largest gap between top foreign level and top level that we have seen in SC2 so far (in my humble opinion). There is really no use comparing guys like Stephano or Lucifron to Soulkey and Innovation, the level is just too different. This translates in foreign news slowly disappearing from headlines of community websites like TL. You can't really mix some random foreigners winning Zotac or Go4SC2 or whatever cups with Innovation winning WCS, Soulkey winning KR, HerO winning NA and Mvp EU.
So I pretty much stopped watching everything foreigner-related in SC2 (player streams or foreigner-heavy tournaments) because I didn't feel that what I was watching was legit anymore.
This turns out ok for me though because Proleague and GSL is already plenty of good Starcraft to watch, but if foreign Starcraft is what you're interested in, I think the scene is indeed not very strong at the moment.
Tl;dr; If you want to get into competitive Starcraft, don't bother with foreigner stuff and just watch GSL and Proleague.
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As an older fan with a job and less free time, I kind of miss the days of the weekend tournaments.
I get what they're doing with these longer tournaments, but I miss just being able to follow shorter tournaments from beginning to end.
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On June 14 2013 06:52 mTwRINE wrote:
I remember being hyped about MLG and DH watching streams 24/7. You had one or two days with excitement peaking very fast.
Nowadays you have ongoing tourneys (SPL,WCS, Qualifiers) every day where somehow every game matters but the final is so far you cant even feel tense if you are not rooting for someone. The format doesnt provide momentum building up and just pukes out game after game with the best players, which is getting dull very fast.
The reason is obvious, you get tons of hours of content for the same money, players can prepare, you can prepare productionvalue and after half a years theres your big final everyone is waiting for.
Better investement, less enjoyable (for me).
On June 14 2013 07:01 Defacer wrote:
As an older fan with a job and less free time, I kind of miss the days of the weekend tournaments.
I get what they're doing with these longer tournaments, but I miss just being able to follow shorter tournaments from beginning to end.
If you like weekend style tournaments the most, keep watching them, they're not gone.
The top 8 for WCS EU & AM happens at a weekend tournament, DH and MLG haven't gone anywhere. Homestory is also a weekend style tournament. Asus ROG and IEM will return soon as well. Even the WCS season finals is a weekend style tournament.
We've actually had a " weekend " tournament every weekend for the past 3 weeks, and it will continue for a few more weeks.
5/25 - 5/26 WCS Europe Top 8
6/01 - 6/02 WCS America Top 8
6/07 - 6/09 WCS Season 1 Finals
Those all happened recently, now for upcoming:
6/15 - 6/17 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Summer
6/20 - 6/23 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HomeStory_Cup/7
6/28 - 6/30 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_MLG_Spring_Championship
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On June 14 2013 06:33 laegoose wrote:
Since WCS finals there's nothing to watch except Proleague (it has a bit boring production, so normally you watch only highlighted games). WCS AM challenger league isn't really top-tier and I don't see familiar names there. Can't wait for Dreamhack and GSL Code A/Code S.
I would like to have non-stop GSL action 7 days a week.
Edit: ah we have OSL instead of Code S this season. Hope it will be on the same level.
Same players=same level....I just hope the production doesn't flop....
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I feel that, as a viewer, the game improved a lot since HotS came out. The level of competition in GSL / OSL is excellent and frankly I'd be more than happy even if that was the only game in town.
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There is less hype and excitement, for sure. I couldn't care less about WCS finals.
Why did Blizzard have to ruin the GSL? What happened to yearly subscribers? (Of course I know the answer but it may sound too political)
Current system is OK for killing time - lots of VODs on Youtube or elsewhere. But I don't follow events real-time any more.
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On the plus side there is good time disparity between events during day. Early morning i can watch proleague, GSL about launch and WCS EU at night. Also casters improved a lot and there is a lot of them, you could even watch WCS finals with preferred caster.
But in reality I watch almost nothing. Twitch still lags so I can watch only morning proleague with 15.000 views or youtube streams. Metagame is stale and I dont care about these new zerg players. I loved Kyrix, Zenio, Idra, Nestea, Stephano era. Now builds feels too refined, you can see same build over and over, most players win by reducing amount of mistakes or improved positioning while I feel number of different strategies is decreasing. Greedy terran vs roach bust zerg 100 games in a row, yawn. Finally i really dislike Blizzards attitude, they don't really force players to adapt to new things. In MOBA games designers change hundreds of small to big things and you can see new abuses arise, new champions etc and I am missing this kind of excitement. Finally scene is too korean dominated, more than ever in SC2 history.
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WCS is not that difficult to follow. The format is little different from what GSL used to have. You have your daily matches from the three regions, from challengers to playoffs, and then your grand finals at a set location. The casters do a decent enough job telling you what's at stake for the players, and for those who want additional info the website is easily navigable.
I think the bigger problem is simply that there are no great storylines left in the NA/EU scene. The biggest personalities of the scene - IdrA and Stephano - are both retired/retiring. Naniwa is still around, thankfully, but outside of him what do you have? Suppy isn't exactly the next Stephano, and the rest of the NA/EU scene is just the same old players playing around the same old level they were at in 2012 - ie taking a game here and there from top Koreans but otherwise not doing well enough for people to say they're the next great hope.
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The game is so much better, but the whole WCS thing is just boring as all hell, or has been so far.
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I don't see the issue, there's three GSLs going on in three different regions. All you need to do is check liquipedia for the schedule and watch when you want to watch.
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I feel like WCS Global finals went by without anyone noticing, it was really not needed, for next seasons prize money should be changed from 100k Europe, 100k USA, 100k korea and 150k finals to 85k europe, 65k usa and 300k korea. That would maybe make all the Koreans rather play in WCS Korea, which would be very prestige with bigger prize pool and we could have foreigners win WCS Europe and WCS USA. But there certainly is a big problem with all non WCS tournaments they just don't feel as interesting as they used to, but on the other hand I cannot wait for proleague playoffs.
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Like today, I saw WCS AM challenger league under "Upcoming events" in TL calendar about this time. (6:00 pm EST) Thought I might catch it real-time. (even though I am not sure if the games are played real-time)
For some reason it disappeared. (?!)
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Similarly to Wings of liberty and Brood war, the best of the best is the most fun to watch. With the limited amount of energy and spare time I can spend on SC2, I only watch the GSL and it's still mostly really awesome.
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I only really follow proleague now. At least in prolaegue there are history, long standing rivalries and many new maps and strategy albeit a little too much PvP. As for the individual league, I catch GSL games here and there but I don't follow it the way I used to. I didn't even bother to watch any of the WCS final except for Mvp vs Bogus series.
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My 2011 hangover of non-stop tournament saturation hasn't stopped yet.
But I have a feeling this WCS is about to be awesome. Not right now, but by the end of this year. Blizzcon will feel a LOT more meaningful. And next year? You will begin to feel like you can actually make comparisons between players due to one worldwide tournament that everyone is involved in.
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I just don't know what to watch anymore, it feels like dreamhack or mlg is pointless now ... i know its not you get points for wcs, but it just feels like wcs kinda ruined things.
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Let's complain more about a non issue so that it becomes an issue! Thanks! It's the same shit that arose over the past two weeks from WCS, just banter with no option of resolve. I liked the tournaments! It's not growing at the same rate that a LoL global tournament is running, so fuck it. Man up and don't be a sissy -- or if you're just dumb and want numbers or to argue on a forum -- not a good place my dear. Seven years ago I stayed up to watch proleague when nobody gave a much rats ass about sc2. If you like something follow it, if you don't. You're fucked. No point crying at an incident because you've never experienced it. Plain stupid.
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Whoa, I totally disagree. I think it's way easier to follow than ever. I love the new system. It's really nice to have one main tournament that is easy to keep track of, instead of a million at once. It's no longer a wild west of tournaments. There is actually some structure now. Plus, there are weekend-long tournies taking place when WCS isn't on. I think they supplement each other very well.
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On June 14 2013 07:33 jax1492 wrote:
I just don't know what to watch anymore, it feels like dreamhack or mlg is pointless now ... i know its not you get points for wcs, but it just feels like wcs kinda ruined things.
The problem with MLG and Dreamhack was that they always felt GSL light.
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I kind of am on the fence about WCS. One thing it does really well is that it brought all of a region's best players together - WCS Europe has every top European non-korean that comes to mind - Stephano, Lucifron, Vortix, Naniwa, TLO, etc. On the other hand, I kind of wish that the other tournaments (IPL, NASL) didn't get bumped out of the equation. I like how the WCS synergizes with other tournaments like Dreamhack, MLG, and HSC by making them offer WCS points, though.
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Phenomenal over saturation right now. All I watch is WCS finals, Code S and some weekend LAN's.
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People don't want to ever look at the big picture and insist on looking at things as they are right now. It wasn't that great before and everyone was clamoring for blizzard to take a more active role in the scene. They they do that (albeit rushed) and everyone complains it wasn't precisely and exactly what they wanted and don't have the patients to wait for it to get improved. It's litterally impossible to do something this huge "over night". Just give it a while and it will be incredible and everyone will look back on these threads and wonder what all the fuss was about.
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On June 14 2013 07:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Phenomenal over saturation right now. All I watch is WCS finals, Code S and some weekend LAN's.
Do you remember 2011-2012 when there literally was a "BIG TOURNAMENT" every single weekend. Where we literally had more content than days in the week to fill with said content?
You posted 3 things.
Imagine 3-4 things a day.
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I feel the same way and I think a big part of the problem is I have no idea how WCS works. We just had the grand finals recently and it seems like the WCS Challenger League stuff has just been running along the whole time as a separate league or something. I've been watching more SC2 recently than I have in a lonnnnnnnnng time but it's mostly just player streams because theres rarely a notable event going on.
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On June 14 2013 08:00 SupLilSon wrote:
I feel the same way and I think a big part of the problem is I have no idea how WCS works.
At some level that's your fault and not blizzards. Yes it's confusing and yes they should do a better job making it more accessible but if you're not even going to try and learn how it operates you can't reasonably be upset when you can't follow along.
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On June 14 2013 08:00 SupLilSon wrote:
I feel the same way and I think a big part of the problem is I have no idea how WCS works. We just had the grand finals recently and it seems like the WCS Challenger League stuff has just been running along the whole time as a separate league or something. I've been watching more SC2 recently than I have in a lonnnnnnnnng time but it's mostly just player streams because theres rarely a notable event going on.
You're joking right?...Please read my post from page 3, we're having 6 weekend events in a row and are halfway through them right now with Dreamhack about to start tomorrow. Is it that hard to check liquipedia for tournament dates?
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I'd say it has hit the peak and now on a downward slide.
You can look at the 'views' on any SC2 youtube video or twitch stream and tell that interest for Starcraft II isn't going up.
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On June 14 2013 08:43 GhostFiber wrote:
I'd say it has hit the peak and now on a downward slide.
You can look at the 'views' on any SC2 youtube video or twitch stream and tell that interest for Starcraft II isn't going up.
The big tournaments since HotS have set record viewer numbers, much much higher than WoL. Dreamhack stockholm 2013 was the most viewed DH ever, MLG Winter was also the most viewed MLG ever(for sc2).
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On June 14 2013 08:47 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 08:43 GhostFiber wrote:
I'd say it has hit the peak and now on a downward slide.
You can look at the 'views' on any SC2 youtube video or twitch stream and tell that interest for Starcraft II isn't going up. The big tournaments since HotS have set record viewer numbers, much much higher than WoL. Dreamhack stockholm 2013 was the most viewed DH ever, MLG Winter was also the most viewed MLG ever(for sc2).
It's like these organizers know what they're doing and shit.
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I like the idea of just having SPL and WCS being the two big things to follow, with some big foreign events every now and then. Like, if SPL had better casters (I like the current well enough, but I think an important league like SPL should have some higher tier casters) and WCS Korea didn't seem like such a pissing contest between GOM and OGN, I'd be really happy 
I'm not hugely interested in watching any other leagues outside of korea since the level of play is much worse. Honestly I am not going to watch any more than WCS EU/AM plus some other big foreign events like Dreamhack every now and then anyway.
So for me, things are changing right now and it's kinda confusing, but I like the core idea that blizzard has. Hope everyone does better job next time and stuff.
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To be honest I was actually getting a bit upset with the amount of coverage on SC things on TL as well, but it seems better than it was ~ a month ago. I hit TL and actually see SC2 news items on the front image, and most (if not all) the important headlines are in the sidebar next to it now. For a bit there, like after someone (forgot who..) won a major tournament, they were already pushed back the next day because someone on a DotA team got traded with another player or something..
EDIT: DH Summer preview for SC2 is a featured article, but DotA2's Summer preview gets the front page image. >.< Filtering I guess.
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Yeah i've been following the sc2 scene since WoL beta and i do agree that things have changed and things don't seem to be well enough covered or hyped...
speaking of which, where is the countdown timer for dreamhack? TL is responsible for bringing the hype to the community, cos lets face it, this site is like THE hub for all sc2 news... without this website i wouldn't even watch a quarter of the live content that is available out there every day...
now i'm not saying that TL is to blame, definitely not the staff or anything (except maybe for that countdown timer - cos that shit is great) lol
tbh i'm not really sure what can be done to improve awareness and hype of upcoming tournaments or games etc...
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On June 14 2013 05:52 Irre wrote:
I think proleague ended up being a big letdown for the scene. I know its not the casters faults alone, but honestly if they put 1/2 the effort into production and casting for proleague that they do for Korea or somewhat match the GSL level production for that matter, things would be SO much better. The games are fresh, so many different strategies, ideas. And stories could easily be created. But instead we basically have fantasy vs flash.. SKT Protosses owning and EGTL....well yeah. I hope for the future that this becomes better bc it would be the single best thing to happen to the scene especially with Kespa players kind of taking over at this point in talent level overall. I always enjoy the games themselves ( even other races mirrors which i never enjoy elsewhere really), but its so much wasted potential there!
progleague is all i watch...if there was no proleague, i wouldnt be watching sc2
(granted, only because of korean stream, and in that regard, there is nothing better for energy, entertainment, analysis)
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On June 14 2013 09:28 MagnuMizer wrote:
Yeah i've been following the sc2 scene since WoL beta and i do agree that things have changed and things don't seem to be well enough covered or hyped...
speaking of which, where is the countdown timer for dreamhack? TL is responsible for bringing the hype to the community, cos lets face it, this site is like THE hub for all sc2 news... without this website i wouldn't even watch a quarter of the live content that is available out there every day...
now i'm not saying that TL is to blame, definitely not the staff or anything (except maybe for that countdown timer - cos that shit is great) lol
tbh i'm not really sure what can be done to improve awareness and hype of upcoming tournaments or games etc...
The countdown is here on the front page:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eVtCeLc.png)
It could definitely be more prominent, the LR threads in the sc2 tournaments section also have countdowns, you should always go there first to find that kind of information. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416889
And then you have liquipedia(http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Summer/Group_Stage_1 ) which always has everything. It's really not that hard to find the information.
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On June 14 2013 06:29 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that. I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them...
I remember there being a period of time where each major event paid to get a count down timer in the top right of the site.
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On June 14 2013 08:47 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 08:43 GhostFiber wrote:
I'd say it has hit the peak and now on a downward slide.
You can look at the 'views' on any SC2 youtube video or twitch stream and tell that interest for Starcraft II isn't going up. The big tournaments since HotS have set record viewer numbers, much much higher than WoL. Dreamhack stockholm 2013 was the most viewed DH ever, MLG Winter was also the most viewed MLG ever(for sc2).
Sure there was a big influx with players since HotS launch just like with every popular game, but that doesn't overshadow consistent numbers which are streams and youtube viewers. Check back with us in 6 months with the next DH and MLG stats and tell if they too are the most viewed.
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On June 14 2013 09:53 Farmer Poopy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:29 theking1 wrote:On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that. I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them... I remember there being a period of time where each major event paid to get a count down timer in the top right of the site.
Those are paid advertisements, the admins have said multiple times in website feedback threads that those countdowns in the top right appeared because the tournament organizers paid for it.
On June 14 2013 09:55 GhostFiber wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 08:47 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 08:43 GhostFiber wrote:
I'd say it has hit the peak and now on a downward slide.
You can look at the 'views' on any SC2 youtube video or twitch stream and tell that interest for Starcraft II isn't going up. The big tournaments since HotS have set record viewer numbers, much much higher than WoL. Dreamhack stockholm 2013 was the most viewed DH ever, MLG Winter was also the most viewed MLG ever(for sc2). Sure there was a big influx with players since HotS launch just like with every popular game, but that doesn't overshadow consistent numbers which are streams and youtube viewers. Check back with us in 6 months with the next DH and MLG stats and tell if they too are the most viewed.
I'll check back with you in a few days when Dreamhack is finished and we can compare their viewers to Stockholm's, everything else you said is speculation or irrelevant(youtube numbers? lol)
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There was a big drop in interest in the last few months of WoL, then a sharp jump back up when HotS came out. It's still too soon to see if it'll resume growing, stay where it is, or even shrink.
(Also, BW started to come back from the dead, and the BW fans are generally some of the most hardcore people, and they've been busy with that)
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Eh I don't get the OP or those complaining at all. WCS consolidated the scene and now there is more content. This is really fucking cool! Turn on twitch any day of the week and chances are you can see the top GMS from the all 3 regions playing with decent commentary. On the topic of commentary, the skill ceiling has improved. There are very few casters who aren't masters and they are bringing in more pros and ex pros. WCS is really a quite simple format. Easy to follow.
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On June 14 2013 09:58 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 09:53 Farmer Poopy wrote:On June 14 2013 06:29 theking1 wrote:On June 14 2013 06:19 Bonkarooni wrote:On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing. Truth be told, I stopped following gsl during bl/infestor and when they jacked their prices up(and when they stopped fully broadcasting code a). Then kespa swiched to sc2 and I dont even understand how that entire league is structured nor am I familiar with 4/5 players or teams.
Then IPL and NASL basically both disbanded as far as sc2 is concerned and what are we left with? 3 regional daily tournaments run by completely different organizations with players not even specific to a region among 1000 other inconsistancies? Not only that, but I browse to this site on 4 diff devices and I am bombarded with dota 2 stuff. What is even happening anymore? I understand there are 'filters' but I dont feel like filtering every single time I surf here. And even after I filter, I have no idea what the important upcoming matches are and WHEN they are going to happen unless I already know what I am searching for. There is litterally not the sightest bit of hype in this scene anymore outside of whoever the top 2 'best players' are ATM and I dont even know what I should be following.
Anyone else feel similar? I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way. This site used to go balls to the wall content-wise for every mlg / dreamhack / gsl tourny and now it seems like these events either dont exist or dont even get more than a LR thread. What happened? I dont think sc2 is dieing, but I definately feel like the community itself is sort of falling apart. I just dont feel like the scene is very newbie-friendly anymore. If someonee wanted to get into competitive sc2, I feel like they woulnt even know where to start. I dont understand the lack of tournaments complaint... WCS NA finals. WCS World Finals. Dreamhack this weekend. Homestory next weekend. MLG anaheim next weekend. WCS season 2 qualifiers after that. I think he is referring to the fact that tournaments arent hyped like before.I personally have not seen any dreamhack ads on this website and it is considered the premier sc website.The tournaments might be physically present but if casual fans do not know about them... I remember there being a period of time where each major event paid to get a count down timer in the top right of the site. Those are paid advertisements, the admins have said multiple times in website feedback threads that those countdowns in the top right appeared because the tournament organizers paid for it.
Okay that was in fact what i was wondering mostly about...
Hmm its almost a shame you need to pay to have that countdown... I just thought it was for all the big tournaments...
Now i feel perhaps i am the ignorant one, and that there indeed is plenty of hype to be found if you look close enough ^^
in related news, i am extremely excited for DH ! Thumbs up if you are too! 
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Yup, I totally agree with you. I stopped following SC2 scene after this new WCS format was announced.
I sometimes watched WCS America qualifer, but besides that, I just follow innovation/flash/bisu.
There are so many tournaments which seems to be somewhat less mysterious. The reason why I liked watching OSL was because it only occurs like once a year, when most of the tournaments occurs also once a year. But now there are so many things to watch, which it feels like there is less hype? I guess this is only for me, but I definitely agree with you.
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I agree with what you are saying. WCS really ruined things for me personally
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The problem with sc2 is there is too much clutter, too much content. I am not a big faf of nasl and glad that it is gone. Content is ok, but I think we need some structure.
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Actually it's even easier to follow the scene right now if you compare it to football. SPL for teamleague on weekend & early-week (as good as following EPL or Primera Liga), GSL/OSL on mid-week (like UEFA C1), lastly occasional MLG/DH if I have time.
Then again I only watch KR. However thats enough content to satisfy my need weekly
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the WCS format just sucked. period. Its pretty much impossible to hype anything up because everytihng happens right after each other. omg WCS eu finals. woah WCS AM finals. cool WCS KR finals... dude im fucking tired...but the WCS global finals are on. also all of it felt like the first NASL with korean players. it was terrible. by the time the finals happen at the endo f the year, no one will be watching.
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On June 14 2013 09:58 Dodgin wrote:
I'll check back with you in a few days when Dreamhack is finished and we can compare their viewers to Stockholm's, everything else you said is speculation or irrelevant(youtube numbers? lol)
Those numbers actually make people money off of e-sports. Perhaps you would like to explain to us simple folk how to make a living off of e-sports without youtube and twitch? Don't dodge, you're going good so far.
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On June 14 2013 05:33 stratmatt wrote:
Is it just me or is sc2 too hard to follow anymore? I understand that the gsl was basically gutted and turned into a standard wcs league type thing.
The GSL has not changed. There's just less of them.
I see people complaining about the lack of tournaments this year and I feel the same way.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page check the right sidebar...
When MLG comes around it will be 7 weekends in a row of major SC2 tournaments
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On June 14 2013 10:31 GhostFiber wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 09:58 Dodgin wrote:
I'll check back with you in a few days when Dreamhack is finished and we can compare their viewers to Stockholm's, everything else you said is speculation or irrelevant(youtube numbers? lol) Those numbers actually make people money off of e-sports. Perhaps you would like to explain to us simple folk how to make a living off of e-sports without youtube and twitch? Don't dodge, you're going good so far.
Youtube numbers have never been relevant to the esports scene, there's no point to discuss them. The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
What Twitch numbers specifically are down? Player streams? Smaller tournaments? WCS matches? You're going to have to be more specific or I can't comment on it.
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As someone who went from being a hardcore sc2 viewer to becoming a much, much more casual one I have to agree in saying that WCS has really made things a whole lot more difficult to follow.
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The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
that seems like a problem. Maybe more effort should be made to find out why people willing to watch starcraft on youtube will not watch esport starcraft and perhaps find a way to fix that to get some of them.
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On June 14 2013 10:35 Witten wrote:
As someone who went from being a hardcore sc2 viewer to becoming a much, much more casual one I have to agree in saying that WCS has really made things a whole lot more difficult to follow.
I just don't get how this is possible. It unified everything into a single system. How can that possibly be more difficult to follow?
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On June 14 2013 06:25 mango_destroyer wrote:
I actually feel it is a lot easier to follow and there is content every day when the season starts rolling.
Yeah, I agree completely. I have watched more SC2 so far in 2013 than in all of 2012.
There's actually a ton of content.
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Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not.
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I noticed that a lot of players stopped streaming. Sometimes I log on and there is like 1 or 2 streamers when it used to be 10+
Like right now...
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On June 14 2013 10:38 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +The Youtube audience is completely different from the twitch.tv esports audience.
that seems like a problem. Maybe more effort should be made to find out why people willing to watch Starcraft on Youtube will not watch esport Starcraft and perhaps find a way to fix that to get some of them.
I think It's simply people who use Youtube as their primary entertainment source versus people who don't use Youtube as their primary entertainment source, the gap between the communities has attempted to be bridged before multiple times with varying degrees to success. Shoutcraft America was promoted on Totalbiscuit and Husky's Youtube channels and their first day received very good viewership. If you can convince people on Youtube that twitch is a good place to hang out you make the audience bigger. For a lot of people the only thing they know is Youtube, I guess you could call it a form of ignorance, why go somewhere else if they've always been using Youtube?
I actually had a friend in that exact situation, one evening we were chatting and I mentioned something about Starcraft in our group skype chat to another friend who watches GSL, he then said something like " oh yeah I haven't watched Starcraft in a while I guess I'll go check out Husky". This was only a few months ago, he had gone that entire time watching sc2 on Youtube not knowing there was a broader scene behind it. Having Husky cast at MLG's and advertising it to his Youtube audience helps a lot with bridging the gap, unfortunately he's not going to be at the next one.
There's also the convenience factor, It's easy to look up a Youtube VOD and find a game quickly, people who are interested in sc2 might just go there and find something that way since It's such a huge website. Twitch's audience is growing but it doesn't have that kind of reach yet.
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On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not.
Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ".
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Maybe i'm just growing tired of SC2, but I rarely seem to watch it now a days.
I used to be an avid watcher, but now tournaments just seem boring. With out more interviews and, in general, content around tournaments, I'm going to feel even more detached (LR's are not enough). One of my biggest problems, to sum this up, is the story lines. With WCS we may know who the 'best' player is...but we know nothing about that player...which gives me no incentive to pay attention to them as I know nothing about their journey to become the best.
I would love to see a tournament give me a reason to give an extra cheer, other than to see a good game (which a lot are not).
PS. Storylines come from anywhere, it can be the players nationality, race, stats, history, playstyle, personality, etc... A good storyline combines several (many more than 1, which is what we generally get) of these to tell a tale that makes the player interesting, even to fans who do not know them. With a good storyline we can attach ourselves to the game at hand whether it's told by the tournament, teams, casters, or the players themselves...give us something
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I think the problem is the foreign scene. It's almost like almost all the foreigners have given up on trying to be the best
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People are talking like there's a known issue with a decline in interest etc. There is not. There is record viewership. If you're having a different experience that's unfortunate, but stop trying to project it on all of us.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I can understand people having a hard time following SC2, because most people are not used to watching it during weekdays. You have WCS KR, EU, AM, Proleague, GSTL, and some other weekday leagues (RSL, ATC, etc) now, with many games occurring over an extended period of time. Compare this with 2012, when many of the tournaments (MLG, IPL, DH) were weekender, 3 day tournaments. You only had to pay attention for 3 days, or check the results only once, and you knew exactly what happened. Now you have to follow the tournament for a span of months to know what's happening.
That inherently makes things more difficult to follow, because it takes more effort. But is this a bad thing? Heck no. We get more content on more days, in a unified system now.
People who are confused about the system: read about it. It's incredibly simple. Basically there is a GS-like tournament for KR/AM/EU, and at the end of each season the top players from each region battle it out. That's it.
People who think there are "no storylines": Have you watched WCS EU? It was the tournament that hyped personalities and gave the most insight into players. It was great. One of the best things to come out of it was Jurgen, a running gag that played all the way up to the season finals. The season finals' lounge was also amazing for getting to know players.
People who think we are getting bad games: Seriously? Did you see Flash versus Fantasy yesterday? Basically Flash goes tanks in TvT to ward off hellbat drops, and goes directly into BATTLECRUISERS to combat mech. Fantasy gets surprised by this, and since he can't regain air control, he goes WIDOW MINES TO BEAT BATTLECRUISERS. HoTS has been very varied and creative. It has been very easy to find great games.
And to everyone who feels "SC2 is dying omgomg": stop being so damn lazy. I'm not entirely happy with WCS either, but if you're going to make complaints, at least make sure you've put in enough effort to actually have a reason to think the way you do. Because most of you seem like you don't. If you've just lost interest, fine. That's understandable. But don't blame the scene when you've not put in the effort.
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There needs to be an ESPN for sc2.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On June 14 2013 11:17 lorestarcraft wrote:
There needs to be an ESPN for sc2.
http://wcs.battle.net has video highlights, recaps, and more each weekday.
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On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ".
True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events for the month in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
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Canada16217 Posts
If you are having trouble follow SC2 competitive scene then you aren't looking in the right places. TL calender, Liquipedia, & WCS home page is all you need although you could probably just follow it through the TL sidebar.
On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
If you look on Liquipedia on the right hand side it only shows all the major/premier leagues which is you where you can choose what you want to watch.
edit: there's also a TL twitter bot that tweets when events go live: https://twitter.com/TLEvents
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On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately.
You're seriously going to complain about one extra click? It could not be simpler, you see the liquipedia text and click " Premier SC2 Tournaments". It's not possible to have entire summaries on the sidebar because there's not enough room for it.
This thread is turning into me teaching people how to follow esports, I think I'll stop now.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37022 Posts
compeittive?
On topic: Things are looking a little gray right now but I have a feeling it's only temporary.
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On June 14 2013 11:08 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
People are talking like there's a known issue with a decline in interest etc. There is not. There is record viewership. If you're having a different experience that's unfortunate, but stop trying to project it on all of us.
They're not projecting it onto you. This is a forum for discussing things, that's what they are doing. Stating their opinions and why they feel that way and others either agree or disagree and explain why. I went from watching almost every tournament last year to having watched all of 0 so far this year. Bought the CE HoTS for beta and was super excited. Played maybe 50 games since release? Just a loss of interest not only in the "storylines" but in the game as well. Sc2 had more to pull people in because of the 10 year span between it and BW. It's only been a few (not that it's a bad thing) since the actual release and this expo. Can't speak for others but the game is just a lot more boring. Way too much about build orders and direct counters compared to just good play.
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On June 14 2013 11:35 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events of the month in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately. You're seriously going to complain about one extra click? It could not be simpler, you see the liquipedia text and click " Premier SC2 Tournaments". It's not possible to have entire summaries on the sidebar because there's not enough room for it. This thread is turning into me teaching people how to follow esports, I think I'll stop now.
You have to see the bigger picture here. If it can be accessed with one click, and it is a VERY IMPORTANT content, why not add it in the main page? Pros: Immediately see what major events in the month. Cons: A few lines of space. It's not even debatable. And they dont have to go as far up as November. I'm talking about something like this (imagine top right column of tl)
Events
(Calendar)
ON AIR:
Day[9] Daily #595
Stream: Day[9].tv
Wiki
CTL Artosis
Stream: ChanmanV
Upcoming events: [ More ]
6h 30m [GSTL] MVP vs. PRIME
9h 20m [DSL] Rising Stars…
12h 20m [SL6] Group Stage
13h 20m 600$ MouseShake Cu…
20h 20m [URTL] iMp vs SCS
-------
UPCOMING MAJOR EVENTS:
June xxx - 2013 DreamHack Open: Summer
June xxx - HomeStory Cup VII
June xxx - 2013 MLG Spring Championship
How awesome and helpful would this be to fans!
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On June 14 2013 11:48 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 11:35 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events of the month in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately. You're seriously going to complain about one extra click? It could not be simpler, you see the liquipedia text and click " Premier SC2 Tournaments". It's not possible to have entire summaries on the sidebar because there's not enough room for it. This thread is turning into me teaching people how to follow esports, I think I'll stop now. You have to see the bigger picture here. If it can be accessed with one click, and it is a VERY IMPORTANT content, why not add it in the main page? Pros: Immediately see what major events in the month. Cons: A few lines of space. It's not even debatable. And they dont have to go as far up as November. I'm talking about something like this (imagine top right column of tl) Events (Calendar) ON AIR: Day[9] Daily #595 Stream: Day[9].tv Wiki CTL Artosis Stream: ChanmanV Upcoming events: [ More ] 6h 30m [GSTL] MVP vs. PRIME 9h 20m [DSL] Rising Stars… 12h 20m [SL6] Group Stage 13h 20m 600$ MouseShake Cu… 20h 20m [URTL] iMp vs SCS ------- UPCOMING MAJOR EVENTS: June xxx - 2013 DreamHack Open: Summer June xxx - HomeStory Cup VII June xxx - 2013 MLG Spring Championship How awesome and helpful would this be to fans!
It's not a terrible idea and I wouldn't be against it, It's just already relatively simple to find the information. I can see why it might be confusing for new people but that's why I'm in this thread answering questions, because once you know how to follow the scene efficiently It's quite easy.
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On June 14 2013 11:50 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 11:48 S:klogW wrote:On June 14 2013 11:35 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 11:31 S:klogW wrote:On June 14 2013 10:52 Dodgin wrote:On June 14 2013 10:41 S:klogW wrote:
Peak interest?
I notice the same as well. The problem is there is really no reason to follow the games anymore except for your favorite players. Moreover, if you look at TL, you cant identify which ones are significant events and which ones are not. Liquipedia has tournament classifications and always has, you can see which tournaments are most important by going to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There's a button directly under the Liquipedia text on the right sidebar that has a button " Premier SC2 Tournaments ". The most important events are also " featured on air " under he calendar instead of simply " on air ". True, but its one more click away, and one more window. Some people have the patience for those things, but I am sure other like me would like to log in and see everything important on the main page. What about a summary of premier events of the month in the calendar section, under the upcoming events. I mean I see now GSTL, DSL, UTRL, no offense but who cares? It turns me off immediately. You're seriously going to complain about one extra click? It could not be simpler, you see the liquipedia text and click " Premier SC2 Tournaments". It's not possible to have entire summaries on the sidebar because there's not enough room for it. This thread is turning into me teaching people how to follow esports, I think I'll stop now. You have to see the bigger picture here. If it can be accessed with one click, and it is a VERY IMPORTANT content, why not add it in the main page? Pros: Immediately see what major events in the month. Cons: A few lines of space. It's not even debatable. And they dont have to go as far up as November. I'm talking about something like this (imagine top right column of tl) Events (Calendar) ON AIR: Day[9] Daily #595 Stream: Day[9].tv Wiki CTL Artosis Stream: ChanmanV Upcoming events: [ More ] 6h 30m [GSTL] MVP vs. PRIME 9h 20m [DSL] Rising Stars… 12h 20m [SL6] Group Stage 13h 20m 600$ MouseShake Cu… 20h 20m [URTL] iMp vs SCS ------- UPCOMING MAJOR EVENTS: June xxx - 2013 DreamHack Open: Summer June xxx - HomeStory Cup VII June xxx - 2013 MLG Spring Championship How awesome and helpful would this be to fans! It's not a terrible idea and I wouldn't be against it, It's just already relatively simple to find the information. I can see why it might be confusing for new people but that's why I'm in this thread answering questions, because once you know how to follow the scene efficiently It's quite easy.
Still, it would just be convenient, practical, and smart for all concerned if we have a summary of the month`s premier events in the front page.
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Totally agree with you OP, TL is a mess IMO. Very hard to follow the biggest SC2 news.
Truth be told, TL "sold out" with the whole DOTA thing. I don't blame them though, it IS very popular and VERY good money.
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Canada16217 Posts
On June 14 2013 11:57 guN-viCe wrote:
Totally agree with you OP, TL is a mess IMO. Very hard to follow the biggest SC2 news.
Truth be told, TL "sold out" with the whole DOTA thing. I don't blame them though, it IS very popular and VERY good money.
I hope you know they don't get paid to cover any games. Writers are volunteers.
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On June 14 2013 11:57 guN-viCe wrote:
Totally agree with you OP, TL is a mess IMO. Very hard to follow the biggest SC2 news.
Truth be told, TL "sold out" with the whole DOTA thing. I don't blame them though, it IS very popular and VERY good money.
They would've gone for LoL if they wanted to sell out
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This OP has very little substance and the thread as a whole seems like a pointless pile of complaints. I ask that some mod please close this very soon.
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Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that WCS and Proleague are the main draws of the scene now. It's not hard to find their schedules. The OP complains about not knowing Proleague players...and what does that have to do with anyone other than him?
/terrible thread
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On June 14 2013 11:59 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 11:57 guN-viCe wrote:
Totally agree with you OP, TL is a mess IMO. Very hard to follow the biggest SC2 news.
Truth be told, TL "sold out" with the whole DOTA thing. I don't blame them though, it IS very popular and VERY good money. I hope you know they don't get paid to cover any games. Writers are volunteers.
what about ad money?
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Why will the new tournament structure be confusing? There is WCS, which is divided into three regions KR, EU and NA. In Korea, there is also GSTL and Proleague. In America, you have MLG. In Europe, you have Dream Hack and IEM. So tell me again, what is so confusing?
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On June 14 2013 12:04 kochanfe wrote:
This OP has very little substance and the thread as a whole seems like a pointless pile of complaints. I ask that some mod please close this very soon.
Bleh, it's not that bad.
Anyway:
I quite often open up the TL homepage, check who is streaming at that time and have a glance around, I do this 2-3 times a day (sometimes more). Recently I've noticed I don't have a clue what the hell is going on as much as I used to.
I mean, right now I know about the WCS but when is the next MLG? Couldn't tell you without poking around Liquipedia.
When is the next Dreamhack? TOMORROW YAY - But again I check for this, since Dreamhack is a 'local' tourney.
But look at the front page. Dreamhack starts TOMORROW as I said. Apart from a 'Featured Article', I don't see a 'Big front page' article saying its almost upon us. (Oh wait, I do when I filter DOTA 2 back in, they have a big thing about that NOT SC2). It's quite small there, basically almost missed the thing.
More premier events being previewed on the front page (3-4 days before they happen please) and can we have some more filters in the Calender? I mean like MLG, Dreamhack, Homestory etc etc.
Okay kochanfe, maybe it IS a bit complainy :S
TL:DR Please give us more options on the Calender and where's the big 'SC2 Dreamhack Summer' thing (like Dota 2 has).
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tldr : OP is lazy and the scene has changed, so sc2 is dying. Great logic.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 14 2013 12:11 Doodsmack wrote:
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that WCS and Proleague are the main draws of the scene now. It's not hard to find their schedules. The OP complains about not knowing Proleague players...and what does that have to do with anyone other than him?
/terrible thread
Yeah, I'm going to agree with this. The only tournaments I watch is WCS Korea and Proleague now a days. Lots of good high level play, storylines, great players and of course it's koreans vs koreans so you know it'll be the best games possible (as opposed to watching random foreigners fight it out in WCS NA)
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I liked it more when it was just a free chaotic jungle of GSL/MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/NASL/IPL/OSL/HomeStory/IronSquid etc etc
Unification brings more dulness than excitement. I liked it when there were 10 events simultaneously, people were going crazy for their own event, audiences were funny and excited. This year I think the best so far was DreamHack, which proves it.
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Personally, I'm watching the game more now that everything is free. I really doubt the old model was better for bringing in casual viewers.
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I'm either an idiot or the smartest person alive, but is it taboo to say just go to Liquipedia? They put the premier tournaments on the side listed by Current, Upcoming and Recent. If you want to be kept to date on schedules go there, you want news and discussion come here. Since when is it okay to like something like Starcraft or sports, not put effort towards it or the scene, then complain about how little you understand?
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I blame it on WCS. I don't know what it is they did. I just don't care for this tournament. I don't understand it. There's no drama to it; it seems. No story. And it doesn't seem to end. When will it end omg. End already so that we can get other leagues running tournaments again?
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Osaka27146 Posts
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EPT
