Chess challenge: - Page 6

On July 17 2006 13:50 One Page Memory wrote:
Welcome on board (TL Chess Club) maoam.
Good games, I really liked first one. What software do you use?

On July 18 2006 18:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hey, I have a question to all of the chess players here; isn't it discouraging to know that a computer can play better than the best humans, than the best you could possibly play? It seems very discouraging to me somehow.

On July 18 2006 20:01 crystalis-x wrote:


Hi Frozen,

I'm a Chess IM, and a friend mine pointed this thread to me a few days ago. I haven't posted earlier cause it's pretty obvious that some of the posts come from hack/newb players (nothing against them), however this particular comment called my attention.

It's not discouraging at all, here's why:

A human brain's size is about 5''x4'', and weights a bit more than a pound ? If my brain was sized at 1 meter width x 2 meter height, and weighted 50 pounds, and had 2 Units with a dual core 5th generation processor (something like a Pentium 10), with 10 gigas of RAM, then I would probably feel discouraged.

What I'm trying to say is, most chess players can't keep up with a machine like Deep Fritz, Deep Junior or Deep Blue. Those machines are able to crush almost every single player in the world. Now if you refer to normal Fritz or Chessmater, those are winnable games. An average player, I'm talking about a player like myself that has a solid menu and knows -and I mean KNOWS BY MEMORY a bunch of openings can easly defeat them -pretty much like I'm sure you know by memory Brood War openings to defeat PCs and even human players. I own a dual processor PC (of course a normal one like yours), which allows me to set Fritz to a very high difficulty setting and deep calculation, and I can beat him with ease.

Now back to the Deep PCs. The other element that computers have on their side -and to me the most important when talking about humans vs pcs- is the emotional part: computers don't -and won't- get scared or intimidated when their opponent attack them. They won't get excited when they have their opponent against the ropes -and normally won't make mistakes, which humans do when they're winning-. A computer won't sweat, won't feel adrenaline in their cirquits, won't get altered because someone screemed in the room. Having no emotions in chess ? That's a very very very very good advantage. If you have doubts, ask Boris Spassky, who couldn't handle Bobby Fischer's psycological pressure during their Championship in 1972. People say Fishcer's first win was the 4th game of that series, but that's a lie. His first victory was when he took Spassky to play his game with the whole scenario in the match. Another example, was Kasparov choking vs Deeper Blue in 1998. He had a winning position in game #2, and somehow the PC played a totally unexpected move -at least for PCs that's what Kasparov said- which caught him off guard and made him lose the position and the game: he underestimated the PC, and played as he was playing vs a PC. He said that it wasn't the PC playing, he said that some moves were made by a GM, he said that there was a conspiration against him, bla bla bla this, yada yada yada that. He never recoverred MENTALLY from the loss and couldn't bring himself together to win the series (you can do a google search on the match, and read it from Kasparov himself). He couldn't stand the fact that he was facing his equal (or superior). When you play against an opponent, you have to worry about your game not his. Doesn't matter if you're playing a pc, a human or an alien. Just sit down and play that's all. And while Kasparov kept thinking and thinking day after day about that game he had won and eventually lost, Computers won't think over the game they lost yesterday, and won't have a bad sleep night. See where I'm getting ?

Newb players and some club and average players will have problems defeating fritz and chessmaster, but it's just a matter of practice and learning the openings and their vatiations in order to see when the program fails or slips.

Playing chess vs a machine is like using a calculator. You don't get discouraged in your life because a calculator can give you the result of square root of 32923 in just 1 second do you?

Best regards,

crystalis-x

On July 18 2006 20:16 a-game wrote:
yea FA i don't get your question, in what way would it be discouraging? the human body is itself a computer that we instruct, when you move your arm or use your eyeballs you are utilizing tools. you can not walk across the room or even see the room without tools, does this discourage you?

On July 20 2006 01:51 a-game wrote:
yea but my point is who cares if computers can do things we cant, i don't think any humans play chess with 'beating computers' as a goal in their mind, just like runners don't aim to beat cheetahs, weightlifters dont aim to beat elephants, swimmers dont aim to beat dolphins, jumpers dont aim to beat kangaroos, etc etc.