|
Hey all,
i notice that discussions about adjusting flying paperweights like the Corrupter fell off. I was wondering what kind of ways people thought Corrupters could be modified to be more interesting? Obviously siphon was a horrible idea...
I was thinking, what if they gave the corrupters attack contamination effects similar to the devourer so it doesn't have to be meaninglessly cast, and instead the corrupter gained a spell.
I think the spell should involve pooping something below it while it moves. I think this type of gameplay ability is good because dropping liquid under the corrupter puts the unit at risk, requires the unit to move over where the effect has to happen meaning you cant blanket the screen easily with it and it probably acts independently from an air to air battle meaning it could be balanced to be used when the Corruptor is not fighting (allowing it to be stronger). Maybe they drop a liquid version of their contaminate so that 5 or 6 of them can pass over a death ball to great effect?
Or it could be a buff to z ability rather than a nerf to opponents, and the corrupter could drop creep and move similar to OL.
|
Just nerf OPToss?
User was banned for this post.
|
I'm starting to regret throwing away my report function.
|
I'm not sure about your suggestion, I just want to bring more attention back to the corrupter. I fear Blizzard have forgotten about it (at least for now) and that HotS will be shipped still with this boring unit with nothing to it -_-
Come on Blizzard, at least acknowledge that you haven't forgotton!
|
The corrupter is in somewhat a problematic state i feel. I was actually surprised that it was beating void rays before, and they don't lose that hard to vikings.
With Zergs superior macro all their units really have to be designed in a way so that they aren't cost-effective. The problem i see is that corrupters were close enough to being that against Vikings and Void rays, add to that their massive Anti-massive damage. This means it got an extremely high counter-range, but now that Void rays got buffed Zergs complain about Corrupters not beating them.
I feel the Zerg Counter to void rays has to be something else than Corrupters since Corrupters already counter most other Protoss air. Behaps Vibers but i am not sure.
|
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here!
|
On January 19 2013 02:56 Sumadin wrote:
The corrupter is in somewhat a problematic state i feel. I was actually surprised that it was beating void rays before, and they don't lose that hard to vikings.
With Zergs superior macro all their units really have to be designed in a way so that they aren't cost-effective. The problem i see is that corrupters were close enough to being that against Vikings and Void rays, add to that their massive Anti-massive damage. This means it got an extremely high counter-range, but now that Void rays got buffed Zergs complain about Corrupters not beating them.
I feel the Zerg Counter to void rays has to be something else than Corrupters since Corrupters already counter most other Protoss air. Behaps Vibers but i am not sure.
This is the problem, I think.
Corrupters are made to counter air units. Other than for making broodlords, you'll never see them. They're a boring unit, but no one really knows how to make them more exciting without breaking them.
The problem with protoss air pre-nerf was that you could keep remaxing on corrupters and maybe beat it, but what kind of a game is that?
"This protoss has x tempests, y voidrays, w carriers. I'm going to make pure corrupters repeatedly until I win! If that doesn't work, there's nothing else I can do, so oh well!"
So basically, you have a boring units that is used for specific reasons, and zero units to fill its role. It's just a weird thing zerg has going on, and it's always been this way.
|
Sadly, corruptor is the only real AA unit zerg has. Hydras are worthless vs air toss, and infestors can't get close enough to fungal + IT now don't have upgrades anymore. Massing corruptors vs pure skytoss is the only 'viable' option - And yet, corruptors melt. Mutas are supposed to counter voidrays, but there's archons and HT under those voidrays..
|
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Hydras are worthless vs air toss,
I still don't agree with this.
Hydras mixed with some infestors and queens are really, really good.
|
On January 19 2013 03:34 Qikz wrote:I still don't agree with this. Hydras mixed with some infestors and queens are really, really good.
You're thinking of a small ball of air toss. Which hydras do fine with.
It's an air deathball that problems arise.
|
On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here!
A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot.
|
On January 19 2013 03:37 mDuo13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here! A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Scourge
|
On January 19 2013 03:38 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:37 mDuo13 wrote:On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here! A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Scourge
He is not talking about suiciding, but melee units, not flying Banelings, but flying Zerglings. lol
|
|
|
On January 19 2013 03:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:38 InfCereal wrote:On January 19 2013 03:37 mDuo13 wrote:On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here! A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Scourge He is not talking about suiciding, but melee units, not flying Banelings, but flying Zerglings. lol
Yeah, think Gargoyles from Warcraft III.
Damn ninjas! 
|
On January 19 2013 03:25 Henk wrote:
Sadly, corruptor is the only real AA unit zerg has. Hydras are worthless vs air toss, and infestors can't get close enough to fungal + IT now don't have upgrades anymore. Massing corruptors vs pure skytoss is the only 'viable' option - And yet, corruptors melt. Mutas are supposed to counter voidrays, but there's archons and HT under those voidrays..
Thing is, if there are voidrays, tempests, HTs and archons, you have a crazy expensive army for protoss. One of the things I like about P is that you have way more varied unit compositions for late game than Z most of the time.
This exact situation is a good example of that imo, when the one go-to unit the corruptor is not good enough to solve all anti-air problems, there is no solution? I mean, if it wasn't for the voidray there would be no protoss air unit to kill corruptors with and it is also one of the problems in WoL PvZ if you ask me.
If I was to make a suggestion it would be to look at other units, like the hydralisk for filling this gap so that Z can also have more varied late game compositions. Also, I would like to usher caution to the conclusion that seems to be accepted of protoss air. It is not certain that P will mass air units as they currently do. The beta has had a lot of unit massing and from WoL we can clearly see that the amount of units that are not core units have consistently gone down (Im thinking Thors, Colossus, Ultras for example). The only exception was the broodlord/infestor but that came really late in WoL.
It is easy to adjust numbers that make void rays less powerful or corruptors more powerful. That can be done in a few months when we have some ladder and tournament data. At this stage I would be more interested in the dynamics, not necessarily the result of said dynamics.
|
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
Would be nice, if they kept Corruption, if they just increased it's effect drastically (like 50%). 1) because Zerg is having a tough time with anti-air in the late game right now and 2) it would increase the importance of Focus Fire with High DPS units like the Hydralisk - who would benefit the most from Corruption's effect.
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
The thing with corruption though is it's not uncommon for zerg to build 20 or 30 corruptors - he can just corrupt the entire army, and the fight is more than decided before focus fire is neccesary
|
there was always 30 curropter vs air, finaly that not work anymore is fine
|
On January 19 2013 04:11 Archas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 19 2013 03:38 InfCereal wrote:On January 19 2013 03:37 mDuo13 wrote:On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here! A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Scourge He is not talking about suiciding, but melee units, not flying Banelings, but flying Zerglings. lol Yeah, think Gargoyles from Warcraft III. Damn ninjas!
OMG! They were one of my faves! Damn subconsciousness!
|
Zerg simply needs air splash like Terran (hsm) and protoss (storm) has. The 30 damage fungal isnt working out when you have units with over 250 hp !
|
On January 19 2013 05:25 Kaldi wrote:
Zerg simply needs air splash like Terran (hsm) and protoss (storm) has. The 30 damage fungal isnt working out when you have units with over 250 hp !
I agree with this. On the note of making corrupters more interesting, perhaps a line splash attack, similar to the hellion, would benefit the corruptor. This coupled with some kind of possiblity to do something to ground units. Thus not making them dead weight when all air units are dead.
|
Really doesnt make sense that voidrays have a better ability per supply win in air vs air and can shoot ground when corrupters cant. Tbh if you compair voidrays and corrupters corrupters should be able to fire vs ground
|
On January 19 2013 03:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:38 InfCereal wrote:On January 19 2013 03:37 mDuo13 wrote:On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. Also, slower speed so that they can have even more damage per hit--that way they're scary "if they reach you."
Use dem tentacles baby! let's get hentai up in here! A melee air-to-air unit, huh? Sounds interesting. Possibly busted as hell, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Scourge He is not talking about suiciding, but melee units, not flying Banelings, but flying Zerglings. lol
armies of exigo, stingers
After an upgrade, that's exactly what they could become.
|
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems.
|
On January 19 2013 05:50 People_0f_Color wrote:
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems.
The problem is that it's what the Scout was in BW plus larva mechanic.
When you think of Zerg you don't think "durable ranged fighter with decent stats" you think fast crazy swarmy things that overwhelm the opponent with numbers.
The corruptor would have been an awesome Protoss unit. Strong, bulky, buffs Stalker DPS, boosts Colossus DPS, etc...
But sadly it's Zerg instead.
High DPS short range differentiates it from Terran. Low supply low cost differentiates it from toss. Just pick one or the other and it would seem special. But giving the swarm race the bulky fighter of AA just doesn't make sense.
|
On January 19 2013 05:50 People_0f_Color wrote:
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems.
3. actually, once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it morphs into a broodlord, which was the problem with PvZ in WoL. I'm all for changing the corruptor, but we don't want to go back to having all toss air die to it.
Why not just do something like give the hydra an ability for bonus damage to air units? or bonus to armored. something like that would be great.
|
On January 19 2013 05:50 People_0f_Color wrote:
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems.
That's what I hoped for since WoL.
It's a pretty big problem that once you make it to counter heavy air, once you win they are straight up useless. This allows other races a lot of control over Zergs tech, where if they are forced in to Corrupters, they are then stuck with a useless A2A unit, making them extremely vulnerable to tech switches.
|
On January 19 2013 05:50 People_0f_Color wrote:
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems.
1. In what way is this different to vikings or phoenix? There are plenty of units that you just build for little or no other reason than to kill stuff.
2. So just because zerg only has one unit it should be capable of being cost effective against all four of protoss' air-to-air? It already beats carriers, tempests and phoenix in a straight up fight. Against terran you will never beat vikings, the by far most common air unit for them and BCs, well you just don't see those much do you? What would a reasonable response be for protoss once corruptors kill any air unit cost for cost? There is no dynamic there, just a simple hard counter to an entire tech tree which is without a doubt not healthy for the gameplay.
3. This point is the same as 1. Yes you can land vikings but, realistically, that is about as useful as corruption is for the most part. On top of that you do morph corruptors into broodlords, this is not a trivial thing if you ask me.
I would say that the problem with corruptor is that it cannot alone fill the role of a superior air-to-air unit, because then there would be no reason to combat zerg with air units ever. There needs to be more breadth in the arsenal for zerg and that pretty much means hydras and mutas. Then, when there is a choice in "how", you will not need a more interesting corruptor.
|
Give the corruptor a dance :D
|
something that allows the corruptor to kill mass air, but is only cost effective once there's a lot of enemy air units. something like this:
Unstable Infection
The corruptor burrows into the hull of an enemy air unit, causing area damage at the cost of the corruptor's life.
Researched at spire.
The damage would be cost inefficient unless you could hit ~2.5 enemy air units at once. also it could be microed against by including a HSM style delay between casting and detonation. only affects air.
this would have to be accompanied by a nerf to it's ability to fight straight up, encouraging use of hydras/mutas against smaller air fleets.
|
They're not exactly paper weight.. Aren't they quite durable? But yeah they're reaaaally boring units. Then again, most Z units seem to be designed to be counter units, so..
|
On January 19 2013 06:25 Fenris420 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 05:50 People_0f_Color wrote:
So if I get this right, there are 3 complaints with teh Corrupter.
1. Its boring in design. You just mass it to kill air.
2. Its not even that good at killing air anymore. Its losing the arms race against voids and the only way for Zerg's anti air to make sense is for corruptors to be supreme because zerg doesn't have any other good aair.
3. Once it is supreme in the air and it kills everything, it stupidly floats there.
Clearly a new ability needs to be there that can solve a plethora of these problems. 1. In what way is this different to vikings or phoenix? There are plenty of units that you just build for little or no other reason than to kill stuff. 2. So just because zerg only has one unit it should be capable of being cost effective against all four of protoss' air-to-air? It already beats carriers, tempests and phoenix in a straight up fight. Against terran you will never beat vikings, the by far most common air unit for them and BCs, well you just don't see those much do you? What would a reasonable response be for protoss once corruptors kill any air unit cost for cost? There is no dynamic there, just a simple hard counter to an entire tech tree which is without a doubt not healthy for the gameplay. 3. This point is the same as 1. Yes you can land vikings but, realistically, that is about as useful as corruption is for the most part. On top of that you do morph corruptors into broodlords, this is not a trivial thing if you ask me. I would say that the problem with corruptor is that it cannot alone fill the role of a superior air-to-air unit, because then there would be no reason to combat zerg with air units ever. There needs to be more breadth in the arsenal for zerg and that pretty much means hydras and mutas. Then, when there is a choice in "how", you will not need a more interesting corruptor.
1) Vikings are at least a little bit useful once the enemy air is dead. And I don't think I really have to answer the phoenix issue, as there's many harassments and strategies based upon graviton, especially in PvZ.
2) You bring up a valid issue about hard countering an entire tech tree with a single unit. I would gladly give up strength in one area in exchange for a little more usefulness in more various strategies, or a little more usefulness after A2A battles. A new active ability that would require some form of micro would be ideal to increasing the skill-based aspect of the game.
But with that said, heres something you may be able to sympathize with: Think about the fact that they hard counter an entire tech tree, but are completely hard countered by all the other tech trees. For Zerg, it's the same exact problem as Protoss is having with Corruptors. Hard counters are not good or fun for either race.
3) Difference is, corruption isn't very useful if the majority of your supply units can't even hit ground. Morphing in to BL isn't trivial as you say, but considering they are only A2G, it suffers from the same problem as Corruptors themselves. And think about what the counters to BL are: the units that Corruptors are intended to take out. Once you switch them in to BL you no longer have the units needed to defend them.
In response to your last paragraph, I somewhat agree. But Muta's dont work very well with corruptors in general because all the units are so gas heavy. Hydras are do-able, but not as realistic if you have to tech switch to hydras and BL at the same time in order to defend them realistically.
This problem could be solved by a slight rework of Corruptors that would make the match more enjoyable for both the Zerg player and the opponents, since we are largely suffering from the same issues.
|
We should simply give the viper or corrupter a splash aa ability. End of story both skytoss and skyterran stop being broken
|
The problem with Corruptors is that they are an all or nothing unit. In BW if you wanted to kill air, you wanted a mixture of devos, mutas and scourges. Micro was extremely important on both sides; zerg needed to control his scourge properly, and the other guy needed to micro away from scourges and avoid clumping up vs devourers. In SC2 you build corruptors and attack-move. Phoenixes and mutas can run away from corruptors, everything else can't and you really don't have any reason to micro.
I'd previously suggested that corruptors should have much less health, and a different Corruption that acts as an air-only "Iron Maiden" curse. (Corrupted units cause high damage to themselves) This combo's favorably with HoTS mutas as their natural HP regen will increase the iron maiden damage on enemy units. It combos to a much smaller extent with hydras or festors.
The Zerg player will need to cast Corruption on the high DPS units like voidrays and vikings, and will have to control both corruptors and mutas. The enemy player can micro against Corruption either by staying away from the Corruptors (it'll still have a fairly short range) or if they get corrupted they can run away until it wears off (it'll have a CD). Of course, the mutalisks can continue to attack fleeing enemy units. Also, the Zerg player will want to micro his mutas to hit the enemy units that DON'T have corruption - the corrupted ones will eventually kill themselves anyways (if they keep attacking).
|
On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire.
I got two great ideas for the corruptors:
1. Corruptors are now melee air units with much more HP. They do more damage than they do now.
You can research "Corruptor Rider" upgrade from the Spire. This allows Hydralisks to ride the Corruptor.
When a Hydralisk rides a Corruptor, the Hydralisk can fire from the corruptor while having the hitpoints and speed of the corruptor.
So instead of the usual Hydralisk are worthless complaints, you have the "CORRUPTOR RIDER!".
For example:
*An army of colossus march against your poor hydralisks... NO WORRIES! Bring on the corruptors, let the Hydralisk ride them!
Or *An army of marines come in to attempt to take out your corruptors... Again... Hydralisks Riding Corruptors!
2. In addition to the above. You can research an upgrade called "Stone Form" from the spire. This allows Corruptors to land on the ground turn into Stone, and rapidly regenerate HP.
While in Stone Form, Corruptors have enhanced armor and can also function as a blocker.
For example, you can block your ramp by using Corruptors in their stone form.
When you don't need corruptors to block/protect your ramp anymore, you can make them go into their regular form (and probably combine them with a Hydralisk too, so that hydralisk can ride on corruptors) and own it up.
Anyway, I fixed the corruptor is boring problem guys.
|
On January 19 2013 07:00 Piousflea wrote:
The problem with Corruptors is that they are an all or nothing unit. In BW if you wanted to kill air, you wanted a mixture of devos, mutas and scourges. Micro was extremely important on both sides; zerg needed to control his scourge properly, and the other guy needed to micro away from scourges and avoid clumping up vs devourers. In SC2 you build corruptors and attack-move. Phoenixes and mutas can run away from corruptors, everything else can't and you really don't have any reason to micro.
I'd previously suggested that corruptors should have much less health, and a different Corruption that acts as an air-only "Iron Maiden" curse. (Corrupted units cause high damage to themselves) This combo's favorably with HoTS mutas as their natural HP regen will increase the iron maiden damage on enemy units. It combos to a much smaller extent with hydras or festors.
The Zerg player will need to cast Corruption on the high DPS units like voidrays and vikings, and will have to control both corruptors and mutas. The enemy player can micro against Corruption either by staying away from the Corruptors (it'll still have a fairly short range) or if they get corrupted they can run away until it wears off (it'll have a CD). Of course, the mutalisks can continue to attack fleeing enemy units. Also, the Zerg player will want to micro his mutas to hit the enemy units that DON'T have corruption - the corrupted ones will eventually kill themselves anyways (if they keep attacking).
I like this idea. Having more units with less health adds to the zerg identity rather than the current quite beefy corruptor. The spell you suggested would create a lot of depth. It of course, like all other suggestions would have to be balanced and rebalanced often.
|
Why not give them the poison smoke like Abomination in WC3? (or like Irradiate in BW). It might be fun dropping some poison and move away rather than Amove
|
On January 19 2013 07:00 Piousflea wrote:
The problem with Corruptors is that they are an all or nothing unit. In BW if you wanted to kill air, you wanted a mixture of devos, mutas and scourges. Micro was extremely important on both sides; zerg needed to control his scourge properly, and the other guy needed to micro away from scourges and avoid clumping up vs devourers. In SC2 you build corruptors and attack-move. Phoenixes and mutas can run away from corruptors, everything else can't and you really don't have any reason to micro.
I'd previously suggested that corruptors should have much less health, and a different Corruption that acts as an air-only "Iron Maiden" curse. (Corrupted units cause high damage to themselves) This combo's favorably with HoTS mutas as their natural HP regen will increase the iron maiden damage on enemy units. It combos to a much smaller extent with hydras or festors.
The Zerg player will need to cast Corruption on the high DPS units like voidrays and vikings, and will have to control both corruptors and mutas. The enemy player can micro against Corruption either by staying away from the Corruptors (it'll still have a fairly short range) or if they get corrupted they can run away until it wears off (it'll have a CD). Of course, the mutalisks can continue to attack fleeing enemy units. Also, the Zerg player will want to micro his mutas to hit the enemy units that DON'T have corruption - the corrupted ones will eventually kill themselves anyways (if they keep attacking).
So if i'm correct it would make corrupter more a support unit, and muta's to be the main flying anti air unit? I dont know if thats a good idea, making muta's the main anti air unit. The main reason is that flying anti air units shouldnt be really amazing in other aspects, just like the phoenix and the vikings are; They can harass and the phoenix can give support but there are better choices if you want to use them mainly for that. And i'm really glad that its like that. If you lose your air army because the enemy made a large amount of vikings/corrupters/phoenixes, you dont lost right away because they cant really kill you; They can harass a bit but that it. Muta's at the other hand can completely wipe your base out when you lose your main air army to it, if muta's would counter them.
I dont know but a flying anti air unit shouldnt in mine opinion not be able to do a lot of damage outside his main roll.
|
On January 19 2013 07:50 _Synx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 07:00 Piousflea wrote:
The problem with Corruptors is that they are an all or nothing unit. In BW if you wanted to kill air, you wanted a mixture of devos, mutas and scourges. Micro was extremely important on both sides; zerg needed to control his scourge properly, and the other guy needed to micro away from scourges and avoid clumping up vs devourers. In SC2 you build corruptors and attack-move. Phoenixes and mutas can run away from corruptors, everything else can't and you really don't have any reason to micro.
I'd previously suggested that corruptors should have much less health, and a different Corruption that acts as an air-only "Iron Maiden" curse. (Corrupted units cause high damage to themselves) This combo's favorably with HoTS mutas as their natural HP regen will increase the iron maiden damage on enemy units. It combos to a much smaller extent with hydras or festors.
The Zerg player will need to cast Corruption on the high DPS units like voidrays and vikings, and will have to control both corruptors and mutas. The enemy player can micro against Corruption either by staying away from the Corruptors (it'll still have a fairly short range) or if they get corrupted they can run away until it wears off (it'll have a CD). Of course, the mutalisks can continue to attack fleeing enemy units. Also, the Zerg player will want to micro his mutas to hit the enemy units that DON'T have corruption - the corrupted ones will eventually kill themselves anyways (if they keep attacking). So if i'm correct it would make corrupter more a support unit, and muta's to be the main flying anti air unit? I dont know if thats a good idea, making muta's the main anti air unit. The main reason is that flying anti air units shouldnt be really amazing in other aspects, just like the phoenix and the vikings are; They can harass and the phoenix can give support but there are better choices if you want to use them mainly for that. And i'm really glad that its like that. If you lose your air army because the enemy made a large amount of vikings/corrupters/phoenixes, you dont lost right away because they cant really kill you; They can harass a bit but that it. Muta's at the other hand can completely wipe your base out when you lose your main air army to it, if muta's would counter them. I dont know but a flying anti air unit shouldnt in mine opinion not be able to do a lot of damage outside his main roll.
He's not saying to buff the Muta, he's saying have a spellcaster type unit to allow the muta a fighting chance at air-to-air assuming heavy zerg micro.
|
On January 19 2013 07:11 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Personally I wish they were the opposite of Vikings...
High HP high damage melee units that need to swarm enemy ships--but since they're melee they can be "countered" by good positioning and focus fire. I got two great ideas for the corruptors: 1. Corruptors are now melee air units with much more HP. They do more damage than they do now.
You can research "Corruptor Rider" upgrade from the Spire. This allows Hydralisks to ride the Corruptor.When a Hydralisk rides a Corruptor, the Hydralisk can fire from the corruptor while having the hitpoints and speed of the corruptor. So instead of the usual Hydralisk are worthless complaints, you have the "CORRUPTOR RIDER!". For example: *An army of colossus march against your poor hydralisks... NO WORRIES! Bring on the corruptors, let the Hydralisk ride them! Or *An army of marines come in to attempt to take out your corruptors... Again... Hydralisks Riding Corruptors! 2. In addition to the above. You can research an upgrade called "Stone Form" from the spire. This allows Corruptors to land on the ground turn into Stone, and rapidly regenerate HP.
While in Stone Form, Corruptors have enhanced armor and can also function as a blocker.
For example, you can block your ramp by using Corruptors in their stone form. When you don't need corruptors to block/protect your ramp anymore, you can make them go into their regular form (and probably combine them with a Hydralisk too, so that hydralisk can ride on corruptors) and own it up. Anyway, I fixed the corruptor is boring problem guys.
Yeah, by adding Hippogryph's and Gargoyle's abilities. Sounds great! :D
|
|
|
Corrupters are just boring units. They exist to counter enemy units or to evolve into a new unit. There is no reason, at the moment, that I can think of to get them aside from those two. Should they be more than that?
|
I always thought they just ripped the unit concept from the Matrix (sentinels) and gave it a ranged atk just cause it's a flying unit. It'd be cool if it became a melee unit and had an ability to just jump onto large units
|
It would nice if broodlords dont morph from corruptors any more. Also they should slow corrupter speed down to 2.5. Corruptors are faster than vikings, which is just silly.
|
remove corrupters, add in scourage, that solves the problem if blizzard is willing to make it so.
|
On January 19 2013 10:44 emc wrote:
remove corrupters, add in scourage, that solves the problem if blizzard is willing to make it so.
Blizzard will NEVER bring back BroodWar units. Never ever.
Besides, I have an idea for the Corruptor. I have a suggestion on the stats.
Cost: 200/150 4
Health: 300/2
Damage: 30 every 2 seconds
Speed: 2.5 (or something along these lines)
This may seem a bit UP at first, but thats WITHOUT the ability I will be suggesting.
Corruption Cloud: Activated ability. When activated, spreads a dark green cloud around its vicinity that lasts for 15 seconds. Does 6 DPS for air units and 4 DPS against ground. Does not affect buildings. Damage stacks 2 times. Gives the Corruptor + 2 armor
Corruptor uses the parasites in its body to produce the cloud, and takes away its ranged attack.
Radius of cloud: 2
Cooldown 30 seconds.
When ability is active, you can toggle corruption cloud off.
This ability is the game changer. It does crazy damage when you get on top of the opponent's army, since it stacks 2 times. However, mass Corruptors will not be as viable, due to their new supply cost, and will encourage the Zerg to only make 6-8 Corruptors and spread the supply to other units. Positioning is key here, as Corruptors have the speed of a Marine now. You also can't simply chase Vikings down anymore, as their speed is not as good. Corruptors have just become a soft counter for air with more counterplay and interesting mechanics. But there's more.
With the ability being able to damage ground, the Corruptor FINALLY has more utility. You will have the ability to decimate your opponent's mineral line with 2 Corruptors! For counterplay, the opponent can split his workers against the cloud and send anti-air to kill the threat.
Let me know what you think of this.
|
United States7483 Posts
Firstly: If every unit is interesting, no unit is interesting. There are too many units in the game with special abilities and features. Other units are interesting because they have units like the corrupter to compare to.
Secondly: the corrupter is easily massable. Giving it an interesting ability or skill will likely make it overpowered, unless the unit gets drastically weaker in other ways.
|
On January 19 2013 11:26 Whitewing wrote:
Firstly: If every unit is interesting, no unit is interesting. There are too many units in the game with special abilities and features.
Secondly: the corrupter is easily massable. Giving it an interesting ability or skill will likely make it overpowered, unless the unit gets drastically weaker in other ways.
I agree with your statements. However, let's see what the Corruptor can do.
1. Corruption
2. Good against air units
That's about it. And corruption isn't a very good ability when used in deathballs ie. it's a pain to target every single marine with corruption. So all it's good for is fighting air. Let's compare this to the Viking.
1. Good against Amored air.
2. Can land in a pinch to target ground units.
3. Very long range
Even though the Viking is weak, it has long range to compensate, and can land to hit ground units. The ability to land gives it the utility to be used by some creative minds for some interesting gameplay (eg. Multi-Pronged landed-Viking harrass).
My point is that NO UNIT SHOULD BE 1 DIMENTIONAL. You only make Corruptors against an Air-based army, not against Zerglings. But you can use Tempests as a ground-air siege OR base base harrassment. You produce Banelings for countering Marines, weak area control and worker-line harrassment. Even the Overlord has MORE uses than the Corruptor. It can be made for supply, as a cheap scouting unit and for drops.
Blizzard needs to give something to the Corruptor to make it more useful for things other than air, or it would remain a unit nOt used anywhere outside air battles.
|
Thing is with corrupter, someone said about them being air to air counter units, so you can't make them more interesting without breaking them. Well..
The Viking. It's a good anti armored air to air unit, but purely the fact it can change into a ground mode makes it super interesting and fun to play with.
It's just ideas like that, non complicated, simple ideas.
EDIT: Did not just copy the guy above me, hadn't even read his post, however he knows my point ^^
|
Hydras are worthless vs air toss,
Hydras are good vs Air toss. Unless the toss got the complete air composition. With Mass Carriers / Tempests. Otherwise.. Interceptors will just die after getting out. Hydra/Viper and some infestors is decent.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
