Analysis of the raven for blizzard - Page 2

On November 22 2012 01:25 EggYsc2 wrote:
Look just because you had a really abusive TvZ before and people figuired you out and now you cant win as much
doesnt mean you can write a 3 page essay and complain about it.

Find a new styleman

On November 22 2012 00:30 avilo wrote:
p.s. I know this thread has been obviously about Terran VS Zerg. I plan to write one regarding PvZ as well, as I think there is a potential solution/help to protoss if psionic storm dealt more damage to massive units (aka broodlords).

On November 22 2012 01:16 iaguz wrote:
Lategame is about all the steps leading up to it. And this change is encouraging the Terran to have 1+ ravens with a lot of energy lategame because you were making them midgame and you found the unit to be useful and flexible enough because it has another function.

On November 22 2012 01:46 LgNKami wrote:

lol you must not know avilo. all he does is ladder bro. he's like the Kas of NA.

On November 22 2012 02:05 Destructicon wrote:
The amount of ignorance and hate in this thread is is so palpable that it hurts.

Avilo brought up a 100% valid argument, the current change tested on the balance map does absolutely nothing, it does not address the core issue with the Raven, the accessibility and immediate usefulness. To give you an actually idea how how slow a caster regenerates energy, it takes 50 seconds for one to accumulate 25 energy, that is 0.5 energy per second. Without the energy upgrade it literally takes 150 in game seconds for the Raven to have enough energy for HSM, and even with the upgrade it needs 100 seconds, that's as long as it takes for a single fucking spire to morph, that's 10 seconds longer then it takes to build 1 fucking BC.

I literally don't see anyone attacking Avilo's points directly, I see people just attack Avilo due to ignorance, and their own stupidity and bias, while still ignoring his well thought out and well reasoned arguments.

This is why we actually need people to theorycraft on balance changes, because Blizzard has shown its willingness to listen, but they keep going about changing the wrong things, the things that either don't make any sense or don't have any impact at all.

You guys say Avilo's idea is bad? Well say WHY its bad. Point out, how is it going to break the MU? What theoretical timing do you think you could hit with this new change? Is there no way to stop said timing?

From what I see his change doesn't affect any MU apart from TvZ, Raven isn't made in TvP apart from certain variations of the 1/1/1, and that build isn't nearly as useful now a days. TvT, hardly affected, you only get them as part of your late game.

On November 22 2012 02:05 Destructicon wrote:
The amount of ignorance and hate in this thread is is so palpable that it hurts.

Avilo brought up a 100% valid argument, the current change tested on the balance map does absolutely nothing, it does not address the core issue with the Raven, the accessibility and immediate usefulness. To give you an actually idea how how slow a caster regenerates energy, it takes 50 seconds for one to accumulate 25 energy, that is 0.5 energy per second. Without the energy upgrade it literally takes 150 in game seconds for the Raven to have enough energy for HSM, and even with the upgrade it needs 100 seconds, that's as long as it takes for a single fucking spire to morph, that's 10 seconds longer then it takes to build 1 fucking BC.

I literally don't see anyone attacking Avilo's points directly, I see people just attack Avilo due to ignorance, and their own stupidity and bias, while still ignoring his well thought out and well reasoned arguments.

This is why we actually need people to theorycraft on balance changes, because Blizzard has shown its willingness to listen, but they keep going about changing the wrong things, the things that either don't make any sense or don't have any impact at all.

You guys say Avilo's idea is bad? Well say WHY its bad. Point out, how is it going to break the MU? What theoretical timing do you think you could hit with this new change? Is there no way to stop said timing?

From what I see his change doesn't affect any MU apart from TvZ, Raven isn't made in TvP apart from certain variations of the 1/1/1, and that build isn't nearly as useful now a days. TvT, hardly affected, you only get them as part of your late game.

On November 22 2012 02:17 -Kyo- wrote:


You must have missed the point I made then. No pro is testing the current changes made to the raven - or at least not yet to an extent to come to any conclusion. Once a pro player decides if they're acceptable changes or not then we can (possibly..) move onto avilo's changes and see if they're viable or not. Theory crafting only gets you so far. You have to actually test the patches as they come and provide REASONED explanations with EVIDENCE as to why you think they're either good or bad. Simply saying, "I think this is bad because I think it's bad" does not actually provide OBJECTIVE reasoning as to why the changes are bad.

What I'm saying is, regardless of how Avilo's changes would affect the game he should actually test this shit before making a post this large with no basis for his reasoning. The chain of logic he provides is not sound and should not be taken without argument. Test it and then we'll move on.

If the above is too hard to understand I suggest you step away from balance discussion altogether and let others handle it.

+ Show Spoiler +

On November 22 2012 02:05 Destructicon wrote:
The amount of ignorance and hate in this thread is is so palpable that it hurts.

Avilo brought up a 100% valid argument, the current change tested on the balance map does absolutely nothing, it does not address the core issue with the Raven, the accessibility and immediate usefulness. To give you an actually idea how how slow a caster regenerates energy, it takes 50 seconds for one to accumulate 25 energy, that is 0.5 energy per second. Without the energy upgrade it literally takes 150 in game seconds for the Raven to have enough energy for HSM, and even with the upgrade it needs 100 seconds, that's as long as it takes for a single fucking spire to morph, that's 10 seconds longer then it takes to build 1 fucking BC.

I literally don't see anyone attacking Avilo's points directly, I see people just attack Avilo due to ignorance, and their own stupidity and bias, while still ignoring his well thought out and well reasoned arguments.

This is why we actually need people to theorycraft on balance changes, because Blizzard has shown its willingness to listen, but they keep going about changing the wrong things, the things that either don't make any sense or don't have any impact at all.

You guys say Avilo's idea is bad? Well say WHY its bad. Point out, how is it going to break the MU? What theoretical timing do you think you could hit with this new change? Is there no way to stop said timing?