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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9727

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 12:46:58
January 19 2018 12:46 GMT
#194521
Baltimore public schools' heating crisis earlier this month was a "day of reckoning" for the system, the city, and the state said public schools CEO Sonja Santelises. The crisis, she said in an interview with WYPR Wednesday, exposed the truth that Baltimore city school buildings are less than functional. As many as 85 of public schools in the city suffered heating problems over the course of a week, leaving students needing to wear coats inside classrooms that hovered around 40 degrees inside.

Santelises was responding to weeks of anger from parents and educators, including at an impassioned board meeting last week. "Shame on us," Lacheryl Jones, parent and education advocate, told the school board. When school buildings are decrepit and need to close because of unsafe conditions, she said, "[the children] are being prevented access to one of the greatest weapons they will ever have in this lifetime: the weapon of knowledge and empowerment through education." And the heating issue in the schools is just the tip of an iceberg of structural issues that have persisted for years, parents, advocates, and some legislators say.

In the weeks since the school problems, Baltimore city leaders have pulled together city agencies and private companies to make what emergency repairs they could to the public schools that saw pipes burst, boilers and furnaces break down, and ceilings collapse. But longer term fixes require money. And when it comes to the schools' funding, there's plenty of baggage — and blame — to go around.

Santelises will be traveling to the state capitol to advocate for what she calls fair and equitable funding throughout the 2018 General Assembly. She's encouraged parents and educators to do the same.

Republican Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan initially said he would not send aid to the schools because they had already received "record funding" that wasn't being spent wisely. Then, a day before the public school board meeting, Hogan announced he would send $2.5 million to city schools.

"Let me be clear, this is not to reward the people who are responsible who have failed. This funding is literally about saving kids from freezing in winter," Hogan said. "We simply cannot allow children to be punished year after year because their adult leaders are failing."

But Santelises denied any fiscal mismangement, telling WYPR and the school board there has been chronic "underfunding and underresourcing of Baltimore city schools."

The buildings are old and the weather was unprecedented, said city schools Santelises at that meeting, acknowledging she should have done better at communicating with parents and monitoring temps. She said at the time, they struggled to understand if the problems within a school were isolated to one or two classrooms or if the entire school was without heat.

She pledged to fix those internal problems that left students, teachers, and families out in the cold, but, she said, what was also exposed were decades of under-investment, guided year to year by "systemic policies that are undermining equitable access to high quality education."

At the board meeting, Santelises referred to hostile emails and phone calls from parents. She said she'd take all of it, because she knew they had the right to be angry. But what she also wanted to address in the public sphere was the mentality that "we ain't worthy of what everyone else is worthy of – that's the fight I want to have." Santelises said she needs the parents and grandparents to join her when she goes to the Maryland Statehouse to get the funding city students are due.


The schools' funding formula is in the spotlight right now. The Baltimore city school board is not elected and how much money each pupil gets is decided by the state. In various ways, governors of the past and present manipulated the school funding formula – and that almost always negatively affected Baltimore city. For example, in 2008 (FY09) the state cut the inflation factor – a critical part of the education funding formula to ensure that school districts can keep up with growing costs (health care premiums, energy, transportation, food, etc.) That shorted city schools by $290 million dollars annually, says Frank Patinella, senior education advocate for the ACLU of Maryland's Education Reform Project.

City Schools were also promised money when casinos opened eight years ago. That revenue is in the billions. Some of it is going to city schools, but every year state lawmakers dump it in and take some money out for roads or other state projects. It replaces and doesn't add money to the city schools' coffer, which was the promise when it went on ballot.

News reports showed that Baltimore city schools returned $66 million in construction money to the state because they couldn't complete the projects in the time-frame allotted, which Hogan cited as evidence of mismangement. But the Baltimore city school administration often didn't have the money to front-fund the projects. Other school districts have that ability. While many said this shows a process that's not working at the statehouse, the governor pointed to this as an example of mismanagement and ineptitude by school leaders.

But, Santelises said the city schools are owed more than $358 million through FY15, according to the outside organization Augenblick, Palaich, and Associates. They were hired by the state of Maryland to conduct a study of adequacy of education funding in Maryland. She said she welcomed the numerous audits that have been done on Baltimore city schools in the past 18 months. The latest of those audits was performed by CliftonLarsonAllen. It showed similar findings to other audits: no fiscal mismanagement. Those audits – performed by CliftonLarsonAllen – showed no fiscal mismanagement.

"You can hold me accountable," she told the public at the school board meeting. "We know the reasons why the narrative is always about incompetence in the city of Baltimore and it is obviously linked to the demographics of our city. We know why. We know why the knee jerk reaction is always 'let's do another audit of Baltimore city' ... because it MUST be that we have done something wrong."

"We are engaged in more audits this year in this city than any other jurisdiction in the state and you know why we do it? Because I know our young people have to have that money." she continued, "I am willing to have us called everything in the book because we're going after the money." The majority of Baltimore city students are black and qualify for free and reduced price meals.

Santelises told the public, who was irate about the heating problems, to go deeper and take on the systemic underfunding at the state level. "An informed community is a powerful community," she told WYPR.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14908 Posts
January 19 2018 13:36 GMT
#194522
Straight out of The Wire. sigh

funding schools with lottery winnings is such a load of horse shit when you can instantly just take that money and do something else with it. greedy government budgets
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
January 19 2018 13:40 GMT
#194523
On January 19 2018 13:45 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2018 13:35 Leporello wrote:
On January 19 2018 13:33 mozoku wrote:
On January 19 2018 13:17 Leporello wrote:
On January 19 2018 13:15 Introvert wrote:
They wanted to fund it before but they and the Democrats disagreed on how.

Nyet. They have never proposed a clean CHIP bill. Where are you reading that fantasy?

Attaching CHIP to a repeal of Obamacare is not a clean CHIP bill. It's another hostage tactic. Stop making things up, please, and thank you.

What kind of twisted logic is this? The GOP controls both chambers and the presidency, and has enough votes to pass anything they want. They were voted in fair and square. Literally the only reason Democrats are even at the negotiating table is because they're holding the government hostage with the threat of a filibuster.

There is absolutely no consistent position you can hold to denounce the 2013 shutdown and defend the threat of one in 2017 by the Democrats. All of you are losing any credibility you had left if you don't denounce this nonsense.


The Republicans have 51 Senators. They don't have 50 votes right now. Democrats, at this point, have nothing to do with it.

My disgust with CHIP being used like a bargaining tool aside, regardless of that, the GOP is failing to do this even amongst themselves.

But, sure dude.

Show nested quote +
On January 19 2018 08:53 Introvert wrote:


Earlier tweet, but I like the honesty here:


I expect you'll change your mind now that the facts no longer support your position, yes?

EDIT: After a bit more research, I'll clarify. The CR bill is a short-term measure which requires a simple majority vote. Republicans have the votes for that, but Dems are threatening to filibuster it. Regardless, nobody wants a CR bill; they want long-term funding. That requires 60 votes, which would require Democratic votes regardless of whether the GOP's two dissenting senators (for that proposal) are on board.

No matter what bill you're discussing though, it's the Democrats attempting to use a shutdown as leverage to push through a legislative agenda that they failed to obtain the votes through elections to enact via standard procedures. There's really no way around it.

And I say this as someone who was against the 2013 shutdown and is a strong supporter of DACA. The recurrence of the "hold the government hostage" play is just bad for the country, no matter which party is doing it. You can't simultaneously denounce the tactic when the other party does it, and support it when your party does it.

By my count, Dems don't need to filibuster the short-term CR. Flake, Graham, and Paul all oppose it, and McCain's out of the Senate atm, so it's only got 47 votes max unless Democrats come support it. All of this was known to the House last night when they passed it; in fact it's likely they sold the Freedom Caucus on it partly by saying it will likely never become law.

The Democrats current proposal, by the way, is to pass a super-short-term CR (a few days) just to give them time to come up with a long-term one that they hope includes DACA.

Does that change the calculus at all to you?
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 19 2018 14:06 GMT
#194524
There are reports that if the DACA/CHIP deal was put to a vote they would have a veto proof majority. But that would involve voting one something.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9639 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 14:18:05
January 19 2018 14:13 GMT
#194525
i’d bet my account here that the GOP never proposes a clean DACA bill under any circumstances. i mean, clearly. as they would have done so by now. they don’t want it, and if theyre going to give it, they’ll get something for it in return.

allegedly Graham is also on the list of hard no on a CR. jk, not alleged, he’s on the record.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 19 2018 14:16 GMT
#194526
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
January 19 2018 14:24 GMT
#194527
Unfortunately for common sense and the children who benefit from CHIP, plenty of Republican apologists are ready and willing to sign on to that strategy, as posts in this very thread indicate.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 19 2018 14:31 GMT
#194528
On January 19 2018 23:13 brian wrote:
i’d bet my account here that the GOP never proposes a clean DACA bill under any circumstances. i mean, clearly. as they would have done so by now. they don’t want it, and if theyre going to give it, they’ll get something for it in return.

allegedly Graham is also on the list of hard no on a CR. jk, not alleged, he’s on the record.

Graham is one of the few Republicans left that knows they need to work with the Democrats to govern. The last year of working under reconciliation has deluded some of them into thinking that is the way they can operate all the time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2655 Posts
January 19 2018 14:35 GMT
#194529
Well, looks like we are getting another government shutdown. Washington is insanely dysfunctional.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
January 19 2018 14:36 GMT
#194530
First shutdown ever with the same party in charge of the Executive and both chambers of Congress. History!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5936 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 15:00:48
January 19 2018 14:39 GMT
#194531
On January 19 2018 03:12 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2018 03:01 oBlade wrote:
On January 19 2018 02:54 Excludos wrote:
On January 19 2018 02:43 IgnE wrote:
On January 19 2018 02:34 Excludos wrote:
On January 19 2018 02:32 IgnE wrote:
On January 19 2018 01:33 KwarK wrote:
Firstly, obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it. And secondly, it's the lying about obesity that we're harping on here. We didn't see FDR lying about being in a wheelchair.


damn kwark, "obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it." i thought you'd be down with body positivity


Bit offtopic: It's entirely possible to be overweight and be fine with it. Doesn't mean it's not a objectively negative trait. I honestly wouldn't care too much about Trump being overweight if the rest of his health wasn't deteriorating and he keeps lying about it.


so you're pointing out that not all fat people hate themselves for being fat? "yeah, you know if you're fine with it then you're fine with it, as long as we all agree that it's objectively negative, and otherwise undesirable."

isn't this precisely an instance where the doctor says, "hey however much Trump weighs, he's in good, or even excellent, health." are we not to trust Obama's former doctor?


It's possible to be overweight and not have it be the end of the world. Few (none) are perfect. Some are fat, some smoke, some (me) still have pimples nearing the age of 30. It's not positive traits, but it doesn't mean you (or others) have to hate yourself for it. That is exactly what I said, yes. And if Trump just said "Yeah, I guess I got a bit of a belly" and he didn't show other signs of severe health deterioration, then no one would care (That said I do think the president is suppose to be a role model for the rest of the country, so him being in a good shape definitively would be a big plus). The problem is his constant lying about it!

And no, I don't trust "Obama's former doctor". I don't give a shit who he served before, the "doctor" obviously faked Trump's examination to the point of laughability. They didn't even try to hide it.

You keep saying deteriorating and lying, what specifically did you see to that effect?

He's been consistent about saying he wants to lose a little weight although not following through, because he's not a fan of exercise, because it takes effort you could be spending on other things, and changing your diet is much easier because you have to eat anyway:
+ Show Spoiler +



First off you're linking to Dr. Oz. That should be an immediate red flag to anyone. I'm not going to watch the video simply because I like having hair on my scalp, but I'll take your words for Trump saying he wants to lose weight. Hey that's a good thing! Not following through on it on the other hand doesn't..but again I wouldn't really hold it against him if he didn't lie all the time.

Already I have useful insight into your state of mind.

On January 19 2018 03:12 Excludos wrote:
Now for the first question:
When I say his health is deteriorating, I'm mostly focusing on his mental health. While nothing is confirmed, he's starting to get some weird habits which indicates Alzheimer; constantly repeating himself, loss of motor functions, not able to do simple tasks like drinking water, etc. There have been a multitude of articles about this, and it doesn't help that Trump as an answer proclaimed himself a "stable genius" (in the midst of a bunch of gibberish mind you). A stable person or a genius would never state anything along those lines.

There are lots of articles about the size of his hands but this doesn't suggest it's an important issue, just that people are stupid and addicted to clickbait and publishing tabloid content. If you know much about Trump it's pretty clear calling himself a genius isn't out of character for the last 40 years.

On January 19 2018 03:12 Excludos wrote:
Then there's the healthcheck itself:

“It is called genetics ... ” Jackson said. “Some people have just great genes. I told the president that if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years, he might live to be 200 years old.”

Does this seem in any way even related to reality to you? Trump in "excellent" shape despite being greatly overweight, "might have lived to 200 years old". This is North Korea levels of ridiculousness.

So when you read something like that your train of thought was live to 200 years old, that's patently absurd -> we are now living in a country on the level of one that publicly straps people to artillery to execute them (I don't appreciate the cheap comparison). People who aren't stuck in nitpick the opposition to death mode see live to 200 years old -> that's obviously impossible -> perhaps I should give the medical school graduate and flag officer a little credit and realize he wasn't making a literal scientific claim (which would make sense with the rest of what he said at the conference).

That you would even cite this is indicative of a perspective loss, like everything Trump touches turns to Trump. That's perfectly how a normal human being and Obama White House doctor appointee would talk.
On January 19 2018 03:12 Excludos wrote:
And of course Trump suddenly grew in size because, quite randomly, if he was one inch shorter he would be considered "obese". This isn't a health checkup, this is a farce attempting to cover up a serious concern.

Or he stood up straighter or didn't take his shoes off, or measured in the morning when people are taller and rounded up.

I am at first willing to grant that the president would be obese but I see something like desperation in the way girthers are obsessing about tiny things like this and I get second thoughts because what's the big deal in any case? BMI is not a super metric to begin with, it's just something made up to put people in categories. When you invent categories you invariably have to draw lines somewhere even though there are some clearly obese and clearly underweight people. If you're on the line I don't think one inch or two pounds makes a whole lot of a difference about the reality of your physical situation.

But it is true that if the president were unfit for duty due to being unable to drink water it probably wouldn't be in the WH doc's purview, so I can see you would be concerned this exam didn't adequately address that.

On January 19 2018 23:42 brian wrote:
even though it was done pages ago, again, you write that all completely misunderstanding the point.

nobody is questioning his health. it’s the lying. i can see your confusion, because he’s lying about his health. but it’s the lying that’s the problem. not his health(though admittedly i’m not sure then what Excludos’s serious concern is. again, unless it’s his inability to stop himself from lying. which is indeed concerning.)

"His health is deteriorating"

"nobody is questioning his health"

I appreciate your interest but if you also don't know what's going on you're not compelled to answer for someone else, this is something not a day old and so I don't think unfathomable to explore.

EDIT: Forgot to link the screening test http://dementia.ie/images/uploads/site-images/MoCA-Test-English_7_1.pdf
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9639 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 14:45:03
January 19 2018 14:42 GMT
#194532
even though it was done pages ago, again, you write that all completely misunderstanding the point.

nobody is questioning his health. it’s the lying. i can see your confusion, because he’s lying about his health. but it’s the lying that’s the problem. not his health(though admittedly i’m not sure then what Excludos’s serious concern is. again, unless it’s his inability to stop himself from lying. which is indeed concerning.)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 19 2018 14:47 GMT
#194533
Former White House staffer Omarosa Manigault-Newman may have taped confidential West Wing conversations and fears being caught up in special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, sources told the Daily News on Thursday.

The former reality TV star’s official last day in the Trump administration is Saturday — despite the abrupt announcement of her departure last month — and her next step seems to be lawyering up.

The soon-to-be former assistant to President Trump and director of communications for the White House Office of Public Liaison has held exploratory meetings with several high profile attorneys for potential representation, a source told The News.

Manigault-Newman has met with Harvey Weinstein’s former attorney Lisa Bloom and former Bill Cosby lawyer Monique Pressley, among others.

SEE IT: Omarosa starred in weird film about stealing Trump’s hair
It is not immediately clear why the former “Apprentice” star is seeking legal help, but those with knowledge of her unceremonious removal from the White House say she is “very concerned” that trouble is on the horizon.

The 43-year-old apparently believes she may become a fixture in Mueller’s investigation into possible connections between the Trump campaign and Russia’s election meddling.

“Everyone knows Omarosa loves to record people and meetings using the voice notes app on her iPhone,” a source disclosed. “Don’t be surprised if she has secret audio files on everyone in that White House, past and present staffers included.”

A recent ban on personal cell phones in the West Wing, which followed the release of Michael Wolff’s explosive White House tell-all was related to Manigault-Newman’s track record of recording conversations, the source added.

But a White House insider balked at the idea of Manigault-Newman being privy to any inside information that could be relevant to Mueller’s probe — or of interest to anyone else for that matter.

Interest in a political memoir the exiled staffer has been “nonexistent,” according to the administration source. A recent report from Life & Style Weekly claimed Manigault-Newman could get upward of $10 million for a book deal.

The White House and Manigault-Newman did not respond to requests for comment.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4908 Posts
January 19 2018 16:00 GMT
#194534
I see where the Democrat talking points are going. Dems refusing to fund anything in their defense of non-citizens after calling 2013 Republicans arsonists, anarchists, and legislative terrorists. But we're all going to hang our hat on the last second CHIP 6 year funding carrot.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 16:07:03
January 19 2018 16:00 GMT
#194535
On January 19 2018 23:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/954335062979424256

I find it quite doubtful that he's never seen anything that cynical before in politics; considering how the republicans have been acting for years now.

this chip funding is indeed a pretty jerk trick by the republicans though, shame on them.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
January 19 2018 16:07 GMT
#194536
On January 20 2018 01:00 Introvert wrote:
I see where the Democrat talking points are going. Dems refusing to fund anything in their defense of non-citizens after calling 2013 Republicans arsonists, anarchists, and legislative terrorists. But we're all going to hang our hat on the last second CHIP 6 year funding carrot.


Yes, someone should tell the Democrats that non-citizens are non-people, so fuck them and all their families.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9639 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 16:14:45
January 19 2018 16:11 GMT
#194537
On January 20 2018 01:00 Introvert wrote:
I see where the Democrat talking points are going. Dems refusing to fund anything in their defense of non-citizens after calling 2013 Republicans arsonists, anarchists, and legislative terrorists. But we're all going to hang our hat on the last second CHIP 6 year funding carrot.


i enjoy that you call children’s health insurance a carrot. that speaks volumes. is the stick Mass deportations?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
January 19 2018 16:12 GMT
#194538
one thing I'll fault all sides on though, is not talking/doing enough on structural fixes to address the fact that problems like this occur.
simply not enough work is done on structure (admittedly most voters don't understand/care/vote on it, which makes it kinda hard)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
January 19 2018 16:12 GMT
#194539
Notice that this "non-citizen" language entirely ignores the millions of citizens who also support DACA.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-19 16:16:35
January 19 2018 16:16 GMT
#194540
On January 20 2018 01:12 farvacola wrote:
Notice that this "non-citizen" language entirely ignores the millions of citizens who also support DACA.

DACA expressly deals with non-citizen aliens. You have to comprehend that the support for policies and who are the subjects of these policies are both proper language. You got polling saying whether voters favor shutting down the government over this topic?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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