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On December 09 2017 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2017 02:11 Jockmcplop wrote:
Maybe if the US could get a grip of their huge gun problem (remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem) their cops wouldn't be so fucking paranoid every time they can't see ten fingers. I don't disagree with you in a general sense for America but this specific interaction had little to do with paranoia, that was a power trip. "Crawl toward me"? Nobody rational watches this video and thinks the cop feels threatened here. Disgusting.
Of course no-one thinks the cop feels threatened, but he could realistically convince a judge/jury that he did.
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Step 1 is to increase the requirement for use of deadly force beyond 'I felt threatened' which is impossible to disprove.
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I would be held to a higher standard by a jury if I shot someone who broke into my home.
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The guy did reach to his waist immediately before being shot. The cop does have to follow protocol to get the guy in handcuffs, which apparently involves having the guy come to him. If the guy reaches to his waist on the side during that time, it's hard to say what will happen.
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On December 09 2017 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2017 02:11 Jockmcplop wrote:
Maybe if the US could get a grip of their huge gun problem (remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem) their cops wouldn't be so fucking paranoid every time they can't see ten fingers. I don't disagree with you in a general sense for America but this specific interaction had little to do with paranoia, that was a power trip. "Crawl toward me"? Nobody rational watches this video and thinks the cop feels threatened here. Disgusting.
Agreed. When the victim was lying flat on his stomach with his hands out and his head down, why didn't the cop just go over to him and handcuff him?
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The main is face down trying to crawl to the cop. Unless he is secretly John Wick, that cop is going to be fine. The standard can’t be “well if he had a gun, there was an tiny chance he could have gotten a shot off and killed me, so I’m justified in gunning him down.”
It is getting to the point where if a cop pulls a gun on you, they just get to decide if you live or die. There is no right way to respond. Don’t move, get shot. Move, Get shot. Talk back, get shot. Run, get shot. Hands up, get shot.
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On December 09 2017 02:44 Doodsmack wrote:
The guy did reach to his waist immediately before being shot. The cop does have to follow protocol to get the guy in handcuffs, which apparently involves having the guy come to him. If the guy reaches to his waist on the side during that time, it's hard to say what will happen.
I couldn't watch the whole video but he made him change the way he holds his hands like 7 times, told him contradictory things (if you don't have your hands up as high as you can we'll shoot you / now crawl toward us). He makes him do random stuff back and forth for like 4 minutes before he decides to tell him to crawl toward him (and at one point during the 4 minutes he has him kneel back up to follow a few more instructions before getting back down again). If there's no breach of protocol here your protocol is fucked beyond all recognition.
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On December 09 2017 02:51 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2017 02:44 Doodsmack wrote:
The guy did reach to his waist immediately before being shot. The cop does have to follow protocol to get the guy in handcuffs, which apparently involves having the guy come to him. If the guy reaches to his waist on the side during that time, it's hard to say what will happen. I couldn't watch the whole video but he made him change the way he holds his hands like 7 times, told him contradictory things (if you don't have your hands up as high as you can we'll shoot you / now crawl toward us). He makes him do random stuff back and forth for like 4 minutes before he decides to tell him to crawl toward him (and at one point during the 4 minutes he has him kneel back up to follow a few more instructions before getting back down again). If there's no breach of protocol here your protocol is fucked beyond all recognition.
I believe the victim was also drunk in his room at the time, before being forced out into the hallway (unarmed), so considering even a sober person would get confused with the rapid-fire instructions, intoxication isn't going to make anything easier.
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I just watched the end of Bosch season 3 the other day and they had an officer involved shooting where the cop was clearly in the right, then they had the "progressive" people come after him for dumb reasons, as if that was representative of the reality of the US today. And then you watch shit like this that actually happens...
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On December 09 2017 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2017 02:11 Jockmcplop wrote:
Maybe if the US could get a grip of their huge gun problem (remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem) their cops wouldn't be so fucking paranoid every time they can't see ten fingers. I don't disagree with you in a general sense for America but this specific interaction had little to do with paranoia, that was a power trip. "Crawl toward me"? Nobody rational watches this video and thinks the cop feels threatened here. Disgusting.
yeah there's a lot of problem cops in the US. and it got a bit worse with trump who brought in Sessions who removed (or tried to?) the consent decrees that were put in by the Feds for some PDs violating civil rights systematically.
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Damn that video is fucked up... Why does the cop continuously point a military grade assault rifle at two unarmed civilians? I mean I understand that if there reports of a gun then their response is to take "bigger" guns but once it is clear that they are compliant and unarmed why does he continue aiming at them? I mean I have several cousins in the military (UK) and their reaction is always; don't aim at someone you don't mean to shoot..
Also the cop seems to be playing a dangerous game of Simon Says.. Not to make a joke about it, the amount of positions and physical instructions is just insane.
He's ready to execute someone but not kick down a hotel door when the key card fails to work?
There are just so many things wrong here :|
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To me, it is pretty clear the officer wanted to kill the guy. He keeps escalating the situation and threatening to kill him. While Shaver literally begs for his life. The whole thing was board-line torture.
But the officer said he felt sad and was scared in the hallway of the hotel, so he gets to go free. This stuff won't stop. Cops know they won't be found guilty. That won't make them less trigger happy.
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awhile ago on my first and only traffic stop, i pulled over in a grocery store parking lot. waited a couple minutes in my car and the officer didn't come over, so i got out and walked over to him to see what was up. it ended fine - i got left off with a warning. in hindsight, that was probably not a good idea. also good thing i'm a pretty unthreatening looking asian dude in a suit, god knows what could have happened if i looked differently.
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On December 09 2017 03:06 MyTHicaL wrote:
Damn that video is fucked up... Why does the cop continuously point a military grade assault rifle at two unarmed civilians? I mean I understand that if there reports of a gun then their response is to take "bigger" guns but once it is clear that they are compliant and unarmed why does he continue aiming at them? I mean I have several cousins in the military (UK) and there reaction is always; don't aim at someone you don't mean to shoot..
Also the cop seems to be playing a dangerous game of Simon Says.. Not to make a joke about it, the amount of positions and physical instructions is just insane.
He's ready to execute someone but not kick down a hotel door when the key card fails to work?
There are just so many things wrong here :|
Come to think of it, the amount of guns in the US is probably the reason cops are paranoid. And people think we're safer if more people have guns in public...
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You can’t defend yourself from the police with a gun, even if you are terrified of the police. But they will kill you and tell everyone scared them a little bit.
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On December 09 2017 03:06 MyTHicaL wrote:
Damn that video is fucked up... Why does the cop continuously point a military grade assault rifle at two unarmed civilians? I mean I understand that if there reports of a gun then their response is to take "bigger" guns but once it is clear that they are compliant and unarmed why does he continue aiming at them? I mean I have several cousins in the military (UK) and there reaction is always; don't aim at someone you don't mean to shoot..
Also the cop seems to be playing a dangerous game of Simon Says.. Not to make a joke about it, the amount of positions and physical instructions is just insane.
He's ready to execute someone but not kick down a hotel door when the key card fails to work?
There are just so many things wrong here :|
There are actual interviews with soldiers who served in Iraq who later become cops when they returned to the US.
The rules for use of lethal force when patrolling the streets of Iraq are higher then a cop in the US.
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In other news, Facebook continues to prove they have no idea what is happening on their site or simply don't care because profits are great.
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And yet facebook is often rated as one of the best places to work at.
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On December 09 2017 02:11 Jockmcplop wrote:
Maybe if the US could get a grip of their huge gun problem (remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem) their cops wouldn't be so fucking paranoid every time they can't see ten fingers.
That man is paranoid because he himself has a gun, not really because he thinks someone else has one. That's just the excuse. Police have more a problem of thinking "We got a call that ____" means "I can do whatever I want with utter impunity." If you want to secure him you tell him to put his hands on his head, lie on his stomach, then walk towards him while pointing your government subsidized weapon which you use while in the employ of the public and cuff him as soon as possible. Not wait for him to create an opportunity to justify psychopathy. People outside the system who look in have the perspective to get this easily because we're not caught up in that world. Everyone worries about oversight and reform and such which is all necessary but especially I get so curious about these juries that keep letting people off in these cases.
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EPT
