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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 02 2017 08:48 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +Normally I save my praise for things that have been fully read. No one has read this bill yet. And they won't until after it is voted on Well, to be fair the best bills are the ones, that haven't been read, yet. Nobody wants to hear, how the hot dogs are made...so eat up and enjoy whatever bills we're throwin' at ya!
It's even better when there's a 479 page handwritten amendment added at the last minute (apparently). I would ask how the people voting for this believe it's responsible policymaking, but I don't think they even know what policymaking is.
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On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people  The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing.
We don't get that money. It goes to fund our goverment. Like the military, social services like medicare that cover 50% of births in the US. That is not entitlement, that is people paying their fair share. Taxes for our nation are low compared to the 1950s and 1960s, where we saw amazing growth.
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United States43633 Posts
I'm curious whether Danglars is going to retract his
"let me tell you all about the standard deduction and how now you pay less in taxes because you need to deepen your understanding"
post from the last page.
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On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so.
I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory.
you really also have been proving that you're willing to abuse statistics to try to prove your point, rather than to be reasonable. that makes you a liar in my book. using statistics to lie in politics is admittedly not much of a surprise. (either that, or you haven't earned your degree because you don't understand statistics all that well and are being incredibly sloppy in using them)
I would love for you to tell me where my statistics has been sloppy.
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If this was a simple corporate rate tax cut like Danglers and mozoku are describing, a decent bill shouldn't be hard to pass. They wouldn't be hiding the bill, amending it a billion times behind closed doors and writing in the margins with pen. The Democratic Party, and actual left wing parties in general, don't mind the concept of corporate tax rate cuts. Shit, Sweden's center-left party just proposed a corporate tax cut.
It isn't really though, the Republicans flirted with the idea of RAISING the corporate tax over time so it would be more budget neutral. Its a straight up tax cut for the most wealthy while hiking taxes for actual middle class families (not individuals).
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This is actually in the bill they're voting on:
They couldn't even manage to avoid crossing words out. I'm sure the CBO have a handwriting analyst in hand to interpret this in the next hour though right?
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United States43633 Posts
On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory.
You are aware that the people living in American poverty are the Republican rural voters, right? Because a lot of the time it feels like you're living in opposite land.
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On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory.
you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith.
or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy.
you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I?
you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all).
you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time.
and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to.
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He isn't aware of the rich people's white grievance machine driving groups like the Tea Party. Remember the Tea Party, who was very concerned with the national debt? Where did they go???
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United States43633 Posts
On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all).
This tax plan funds a tax decrease for the rich by reducing the tax exempt threshold for a working mother of three by 35%. There's definitely class warfare happening here.
Hell, they're taxing university scholarship funds. Fucking scholarship funds.
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On December 02 2017 09:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. You are aware that the people living in American poverty are the Republican rural voters, right? Because a lot of the time it feels like you're living in opposite land.
I assume most people here make at least 70th percentile incomes, and they still seem to fit my description. It's pretty representative of most modern white Democrats.
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On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to.
I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it.
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On December 02 2017 09:12 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to. I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it.
i've demonstrated you haven't argued in good faith, little more matters past that point.
and I said a real economic theory, not some voodoo economics that has been disproven, and is only a cover for giving money to the rich, and ignoring the well-being of the people.
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On December 02 2017 09:15 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:12 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to. I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it. i've demonstrated you haven't argued in good faith, little more matters past that point. and I said a real economic theory, not some voodoo economics that has been disproven, and is only a cover for giving money to the rich, and ignoring the well-being of the people.
If you're such an honest arguer than why were you ignoring me yesterday only to tell my argument is trash today? When I responded to the same defeated points you're bringing up now.
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On December 02 2017 09:12 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to. I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it.
Saying things is very different from demonstrating the things you are saying are valid.
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The funny thing is that this sort of legislating is most comparable to the same hellhole countries that xDaunt that argued justified the need for nationalism. Hiding the bill, rewriting it without any attempt to involve the opposition, then passing it into law before anyone can mount any coherent opposition to it.
I have never seen this happen in any other Western country in the world.
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On December 02 2017 09:18 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:12 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to. I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it. Saying things is very different from demonstrating the things you are saying are valid.
Also the fucking thing is being rewritten by the hour. No one voting on the thing has a firm grasp of it. But apparently we are bless with the true expert in this thread.
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On December 02 2017 09:01 doomdonker wrote:
If this was a simple corporate rate tax cut like Danglers and mozoku are describing, a decent bill shouldn't be hard to pass. They wouldn't be hiding the bill, amending it a billion times behind closed doors and writing in the margins with pen. The Democratic Party, and actual left wing parties in general, don't mind the concept of corporate tax rate cuts. Shit, Sweden's center-left party just proposed a corporate tax cut.
It isn't really though, the Republicans flirted with the idea of RAISING the corporate tax over time so it would be more budget neutral. Its a straight up tax cut for the most wealthy while hiking taxes for actual middle class families (not individuals).
mozoku and who, again? Mmm?
The American left has a narrative of tax cuts for corporations and not for the middle class. That's why they bundled this together and called it a reform and sweeping cuts.
Sweden's got a gigantic welfare state and individual rate burden that's the highest in the OECD. The hair trim their party proposed is peanuts.
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On December 02 2017 09:17 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 09:15 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:12 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 09:06 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 09:01 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:50 zlefin wrote:On December 02 2017 08:45 mozoku wrote:On December 02 2017 08:36 zlefin wrote:mozoku -> you call the republican tax warfare plan better than the dem class warfare plan? you do admit that this plan is just republican class warfare, right? your claims that the dem plan would be worse are entirely unfounded by the recent history of legislation in the country; so they'll be ignored as the utter nonsense they are. we could construct a far better tax plan if republicans weren't such reprehensible trash as to oppose anything sensible. of course I could construct a far better tax plan than all of congress, but so could a lot of people The 1% already pay ~50% of all tax revenue. If you think decreasing that burden is "rich class warfare" then your sense of undue entitlement to their money is pretty amazing. if you're going to call the dem plan class warfare without a good justification, then i'll call the rep plan class warfare with good justification. but fooling people like you into hurting the country and the world is whta makes republicans succeed, so grats on helping them do so. I'm not on the side peddling a "consumption > savings makes you rich" economic policy. Who's getting fooled here? The only group that helps in the long-term is Democratic politicians whose base gets fed propaganda that all rich people are meanies and you're entitled to their people's stuff. That's a hell of a lot easier to sell than a real economic theory. you're the one getting fooled here. and that's not what i'm peddling, others here may be, but I am not, so you're just a liar again. proving that you argue in bad faith. or, if you'd prefer for me to argue in similar terms to your claim: you're on the side peddling a "screw the poor > give all the money to the rich" economic policy. you're not providing a real economic theory, so why should I? you're spouting a narrative of class warfare as if it's only the dems are doing it, when the republicans are doing it just as much (if indeed anyone is doing it at all). you have nothing to backup claims that the dem plan would be worse than the rep one. I may not much like the dems, but they've at least tried to be passably sensible in legislation, which the reps emphatically haven't been for some time. and many others make stron gcounterpoints to your claims, which you ignore and/or disappear in response to. I literally spent the last two days explaining the economic theory behind the GOP tax plan in pretty comprehensive detail. If you don't read my posts than fine, but don't pretend to tell me I haven't explained it. i've demonstrated you haven't argued in good faith, little more matters past that point. and I said a real economic theory, not some voodoo economics that has been disproven, and is only a cover for giving money to the rich, and ignoring the well-being of the people. If you're such an honest arguer than why were you ignoring me yesterday only to tell my argument is trash today? When I responded to the same defeated points you're bringing up now.
my points hvae not been defeated, therefore your claim is hollow.
and I don't feel the need to object to every false thing someone is on the internet. I don't have to contest bad arguments every time they are made. especailly since there is no enforcement ot make sure people who actually lose the argument don't keep making the same false claims over and over.
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EPT
