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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 29 2017 04:31 GMT
#187041
On November 29 2017 13:30 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 13:28 Plansix wrote:
Piece of shit conservative blogger funded by god knows who to spread their bile across college campuses. Clearly he couldn't handle a little free speech being thrown back at him.

Apparently she was walking off with his notes. Still waaay over reacting. He's been arrested.

That is some polite discourse. Apparently he is unable to face the concept of community property without resorting to violence.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 04:34:53
November 29 2017 04:34 GMT
#187042
On November 29 2017 11:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Two years ago, Margaret O'Neill brought her 5-year-old daughter to Children's Hospital Colorado because the band of tissue that connected her tongue to the floor of her mouth was too tight. The condition, called being literally "tongue-tied," made it hard for the girl to make "th" sounds.

It's a common problem with a simple fix: an outpatient procedure to snip the tissue.

During a preoperative visit, the surgeon offered to throw in a surprising perk. Should we pierce her ears while she is under?

O'Neill's first thought was that her daughter seemed a bit young to have her ears pierced. Her second: Why was a surgeon offering to do this? Wasn't that something done for free at the mall with the purchase of a starter set of earrings?

"That's so funny," O'Neill recalled saying. "I didn't think you did ear piercings."

The surgeon, Peggy Kelley, told her it could be a nice thing for a child, O'Neill said. All she had to do is bring earrings on the day of the operation. O'Neill agreed, assuming it would be free.

Her daughter emerged from surgery with her tongue newly freed and a pair of small gold stars in her ears.

Only months later did O'Neill discover the cost for this extracurricular work: $1,877.86 for "operating room services" related to the ear piercing — a fee her insurer was unwilling to pay.

At first, O'Neill assumed the bill was a mistake. Her daughter hadn't needed her ears pierced, and O'Neill would never have agreed to it if she had known the cost. She complained in phone calls and in writing.

The hospital wouldn't budge. In fact, O'Neill said it dug in, telling her to pay up or it would send the bill to collections. The situation was "absurd," she said.

"There are a lot of things we'd pay extra for a doctor to do," she said. "This is not one of them."

Kelley and the hospital declined to comment to ProPublica about the ear piercing.

Surgical ear piercings are rare, according to Health Care Cost Institute, a nonprofit that maintains a database of commercial health insurance claims. The institute could only find a few dozen possible cases a year in its vast cache of billing data. But O'Neill's case is a vivid example of health care waste known as overuse.

Into this category fall things like unnecessary tests, higher-than-needed levels of care or surgeries that have proven ineffective.

Wasteful use of medical care has "become so normalized that I don't think people in the system see it," said Dr. Vikas Saini, president of the Lown Institute, a Boston think tank focused on making health care more effective, affordable and just. "We need more serious studies of what these practices are."

Experts estimate the U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion annually — about a quarter of all the money that is spent. Of that, an estimated $210 billion goes to unnecessary or needlessly expensive care, according to a 2012 report by the National Academy of Medicine.

ProPublica has been documenting the ways waste is baked into the system. Hospitals throw away new supplies, and nursing homes discard still-potent medication. Drugmakers combine cheap ingredients to create expensive specialty pills, and arbitrary drug expiration dates force hospitals and pharmacies to toss valuable drugs.

We also reported how drug companies make oversize eyedrops and vials of cancer drugs, forcing patients to pay for medication they are unable to use. In response, a group of U.S. senators introduced a bill this month to reduce what they called "colossal and completely preventable waste."

But any discussion of waste needs to look how health care dollars are thrown away on procedures and care that patients don't need — and how hard it is to stop it.

Just ask Christina Arenas.

Arenas, 34, has a history of noncancerous cysts in her breasts, so last summer when her gynecologist found some lumps in her breast and sent her for an ultrasound to rule out cancer, she wasn't worried.

But on the day of scan, the sonographer started the ultrasound, then stopped to consult a radiologist. They told her she needed a mammogram before the ultrasound could be done.

Arenas, an attorney who is married to a doctor, told them she didn't want a mammogram. She didn't want to be exposed to the radiation or pay for the procedure. But sitting on the table in a hospital gown, she didn't have much leverage to negotiate.

So, she agreed to a mammogram, followed by an ultrasound. The findings: no cancer. As Arenas suspected, she had cysts, fluid-filled sacs that are common in women her age.

The radiologist told her to come back in two weeks so they could drain the cysts with a needle, guided by yet another ultrasound. But when she returned she got two ultrasounds: One before the procedure and another as part of it.

The radiologist then sent the fluid from the cysts to pathology to test it for cancer. That test confirmed — again — that there wasn't any cancer. Her insurance whittled the bills down to $2,361, most of which she had to pay herself because of her insurance plan.

Arenas didn't like paying for something she didn't think she needed and resented the loss of control. "It was just kind of, 'Take it or leave it.' The whole thing. You had no choice as to your own care."

Arenas, sure she had been given care she didn't need, discussed it with one of her husband's friends who is a gynecologist. She learned the process could have been more simple and affordable.

Arenas complained to The George Washington Medical Faculty Associates, the large Washington, D.C., doctor group that provided her treatment. Her request to have the bill reduced was denied. Then bill collectors got involved, so she demanded a refund and threatened legal action.


Source

But single payer just can't be done, there's no money left to make it happen! Fucking sickening.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 29 2017 04:39 GMT
#187043
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 29 2017 04:55 GMT
#187044


The master of voter suppression continues his efforts from the state the Republicans already drove into the ground.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
November 29 2017 10:13 GMT
#187045
On November 28 2017 13:58 Doodsmack wrote:
One wonders if those who claim that Trump does not make any racist statements will ever come to terms with the quantity of quotes with double meaning where if you give it 100% charity, it's not racist, but if you view it in another light, it is.

Show nested quote +
At a Monday event honoring the Native American Code Talkers, President Trump revived one of his favorite lines of attack against Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., questioning her claim that she’s part Native American and calling her “Pocahontas.”

...

Trump made his remarks standing beneath a portrait of Andrew Jackson, whose military campaigns against Native American tribes in the early 1800s earned him the nickname “Indian Killer.”


www.yahoo.com

We're at the stage where mocking a white liberal woman who falsely claimed she was native american is worse than said woman lying about her heritage to enhance her career prospects.

Heck i even recall segments of the MSM defending Rachel Dolezal a few years back.It's a strange world these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
November 29 2017 10:19 GMT
#187046
On November 29 2017 19:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2017 13:58 Doodsmack wrote:
One wonders if those who claim that Trump does not make any racist statements will ever come to terms with the quantity of quotes with double meaning where if you give it 100% charity, it's not racist, but if you view it in another light, it is.

At a Monday event honoring the Native American Code Talkers, President Trump revived one of his favorite lines of attack against Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., questioning her claim that she’s part Native American and calling her “Pocahontas.”

...

Trump made his remarks standing beneath a portrait of Andrew Jackson, whose military campaigns against Native American tribes in the early 1800s earned him the nickname “Indian Killer.”


www.yahoo.com

We're at the stage where mocking a white liberal woman who falsely claimed she was native american is worse than said woman lying about her heritage to enhance her career prospects.

Heck i even recall segments of the MSM defending Rachel Dolezal a few years back.It's a strange world these days.


you’ve somehow missed the important part of the story, where he did this(for the third time?) at a celebration of native americans. additionally, both can be bad. that doesn’t excuse either one.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23188 Posts
November 29 2017 10:23 GMT
#187047
On November 29 2017 19:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2017 13:58 Doodsmack wrote:
One wonders if those who claim that Trump does not make any racist statements will ever come to terms with the quantity of quotes with double meaning where if you give it 100% charity, it's not racist, but if you view it in another light, it is.

At a Monday event honoring the Native American Code Talkers, President Trump revived one of his favorite lines of attack against Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., questioning her claim that she’s part Native American and calling her “Pocahontas.”

...

Trump made his remarks standing beneath a portrait of Andrew Jackson, whose military campaigns against Native American tribes in the early 1800s earned him the nickname “Indian Killer.”


www.yahoo.com

We're at the stage where mocking a white liberal woman who falsely claimed she was native american is worse than said woman lying about her heritage to enhance her career prospects.

Heck i even recall segments of the MSM defending Rachel Dolezal a few years back.It's a strange world these days.

Forgetting for the moment the specious nature of the evidence of Warren's sin as described;

I can only imagine a child's mind being oblivious to why it was wholly inappropriate, completely unpresidential, and remarkably bigoted in it's ignorance.

I mean I get how most people miss the last one, but how could one possibly not grasp the other two?

ELI5 on this is that you don't use ignorant racial slurs to poke political opponents when honoring war heroes. But leave it to the US to be wholly dependent on people and then forget wtf they even did before they are dead and insult the shit out of them the whole time.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 10:29:54
November 29 2017 10:29 GMT
#187048
The left has had a really tight grip on the culture for a long time now, when it comes to being overly protective of minorities or women. This is an area where they should loosen up if they want to do better in future elections. Trump through all his failures is just a giant middle finger to that culture, and him being in the White House for 4 years might shift the tide a little but not by much.

I think when your default position comes from the thought process of moral superiority and anyone who opposes is just a bigot, you end up with where we are now. A turd in the whitehouse elected by people who don't care for the current culture. This means actually standing up against racism or sexism, but not having prejudiced views for or against minorities/women as a default, which is just a type of reverse bigotry.
Question.?
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
November 29 2017 10:43 GMT
#187049
Trump is a giant middle finger to any form of culture.
passive quaranstream fan
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21651 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 11:08:22
November 29 2017 11:03 GMT
#187050
On November 29 2017 19:29 biology]major wrote:
The left has had a really tight grip on the culture for a long time now, when it comes to being overly protective of minorities or women. This is an area where they should loosen up if they want to do better in future elections. Trump through all his failures is just a giant middle finger to that culture, and him being in the White House for 4 years might shift the tide a little but not by much.

I think when your default position comes from the thought process of moral superiority and anyone who opposes is just a bigot, you end up with where we are now. A turd in the whitehouse elected by people who don't care for the current culture. This means actually standing up against racism or sexism, but not having prejudiced views for or against minorities/women as a default, which is just a type of reverse bigotry.

"The left should allow people to discriminate against minorities a bit more to do better in future elections".
Do you read what your saying?

The left wouldn't be so overly protective if that protection wasn't needed to ensure equal rights and treatment, and I imagine GH would argue they are not being protective enough.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23188 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 11:27:18
November 29 2017 11:26 GMT
#187051
On November 29 2017 20:03 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 19:29 biology]major wrote:
The left has had a really tight grip on the culture for a long time now, when it comes to being overly protective of minorities or women. This is an area where they should loosen up if they want to do better in future elections. Trump through all his failures is just a giant middle finger to that culture, and him being in the White House for 4 years might shift the tide a little but not by much.

I think when your default position comes from the thought process of moral superiority and anyone who opposes is just a bigot, you end up with where we are now. A turd in the whitehouse elected by people who don't care for the current culture. This means actually standing up against racism or sexism, but not having prejudiced views for or against minorities/women as a default, which is just a type of reverse bigotry.

"The left should allow people to discriminate against minorities a bit more to do better in future elections".
Do you read what your saying?

The left wouldn't be so overly protective if that protection wasn't needed to ensure equal rights and treatment, and I imagine GH would argue they are not being protective enough.


The US Government and private contractors were sicking dogs on natives, spraying them with fire hoses in freezing temperatures, tear gassing, etc... because they were trying to protect their water from the inevitable poisoning of it by commercial interests. Yeah, I'd say they aren't protected enough.

That was all under Obama btw.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 11:29:37
November 29 2017 11:28 GMT
#187052
"The left has had the grip on culture" = "Obama has been president for most of my adult life and I don't remember the Bush administration all that well."
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 11:38:09
November 29 2017 11:37 GMT
#187053




The man just lies to lies. He still argues Obama isn't a citizen.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5548 Posts
November 29 2017 12:01 GMT
#187054
On November 29 2017 20:28 Plansix wrote:
"The left has had the grip on culture" = "Obama has been president for most of my adult life and I don't remember the Bush administration all that well."

The Bush administration was such a markedly different time culturally, I remember coming home and turning on late night shows, it's hard to even remember their names now because it feels so long ago, like SNL and The Daily Show, now that was a Republican president they really admired.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 12:35:57
November 29 2017 12:17 GMT
#187055
The Bush administration was the test bed for the Republican master plan: How dysfunctional can we make government and still have people vote for us." It seems right up to the point when they crash the economy, but they can make a big come back after the fist black president is elected.

As John Stewart said "They claimed government is bad and doomed to fail to get elected, and then they made government fail."

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10691 Posts
November 29 2017 12:52 GMT
#187056
On November 29 2017 21:01 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 20:28 Plansix wrote:
"The left has had the grip on culture" = "Obama has been president for most of my adult life and I don't remember the Bush administration all that well."

The Bush administration was such a markedly different time culturally, I remember coming home and turning on late night shows, it's hard to even remember their names now because it feels so long ago, like SNL and The Daily Show, now that was a Republican president they really admired.


Is there ANY reason to remember the Bush 2 presidency as positive aside from "he's no democrat"?
The guy has basically 9/11, the housing bubble, 2 wars and the total errosion of the USA's image in the rest of the world to answer for...

Does he actually have a single major achievment (not even asking for a clearly positive one here? I googled it for 2-3 minutes and i couldn't find a single major one.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 29 2017 12:58 GMT
#187057
On November 29 2017 21:52 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 21:01 oBlade wrote:
On November 29 2017 20:28 Plansix wrote:
"The left has had the grip on culture" = "Obama has been president for most of my adult life and I don't remember the Bush administration all that well."

The Bush administration was such a markedly different time culturally, I remember coming home and turning on late night shows, it's hard to even remember their names now because it feels so long ago, like SNL and The Daily Show, now that was a Republican president they really admired.


Is there ANY reason to remember the Bush 2 presidency as positive aside from "he's no democrat"?
The guy has basically 9/11, the housing bubble, 2 wars and the total errosion of the USA's image in the rest of the world to answer for...

Does he actually have a single major achievment (not even asking for a clearly positive one here? I googled it for 2-3 minutes and i couldn't find a single major one.

iirc there was a positive achievement relating to some kind of aid to africa.
googling it to find something:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief

and copying something from the results section in the wiki:
The U.S. directly supported life-saving antiretroviral treatment for more than 5.1 million men, women, and children worldwide as of September 30, 2012.
PEPFAR directly supported HIV testing and counseling for more than 11 million pregnant women in fiscal year 2012.
PEPFAR supported antiretroviral drug phrophylaxis to prevent mother-to-child transmission, more than 750,000 of these women who tested positive for HIV, allowing approximately 230,000 infants to be born HIV-free.
PEPFAR directly supported nearly 15 million people with care and support, including nearly 15 million orphans and vulnerable children, in fiscal year 2012.
PEPFAR directly supported approximately 2 million male circumcision procedures worldwide cumulatively through September 2012.
PEPFAR directly supported HIV testing and counseling for more than 46.5 million people in fiscal year 2012, providing a critical entry point for treatment, prevention, and care.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10691 Posts
November 29 2017 13:03 GMT
#187058
Yes, i saw that and while really nice, i wouldn't exactly call it a "Major achievment" that an US president has made. Especially because its one that seems to be at odds with what the "R" base wants.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23188 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 13:09:11
November 29 2017 13:08 GMT
#187059
On November 29 2017 22:03 Velr wrote:
Yes, i saw that and while really nice, i wouldn't exactly call it a "Major achievment" that an US president has made. Especially because its one that seems to be at odds with what the "R" base wants.



They mandated at least 1/3 of the money be wasted on abstinence only related crap.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10691 Posts
November 29 2017 13:13 GMT
#187060
So even this is crap in the "details".
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