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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
"So, how'd you end up in here?"
Martin Shkreli Is Jailed for Seeking a Hair From Hillary Clinton
Martin Shkreli, the former pharmaceutical executive who is awaiting sentencing for a fraud conviction, was sent to jail on Wednesday after a federal judge revoked his bail because he had offered $5,000 for a strand of Hillary Clinton’s hair.
Mr. Shkreli, who was free on $5 million bail while he awaited sentencing, had made two Facebook posts offering cash to anyone who could “grab a hair” from Mrs. Clinton during her book tour.
At the hearing in Federal District Court in Brooklyn, Judge Kiyo A. Matsumoto said that Mr. Shkreli’s post could be perceived as a true threat.
“That is a solicitation to assault in exchange for money that is not protected by the First Amendment,” she said.
Mr. Shkreli, 34, gained notoriety as a pharmaceutical executive for increasing the price of a lifesaving drug, Daraprim, by 5,000 percent. He was convicted in August of three counts of fraud, relating to two hedge funds and a pharmaceutical company he previously ran. On Wednesday, he was scheduled to be sentenced on Jan. 16, but he most likely will not be released before then unless his lawyers can show that he poses no threat to the community.
Mr. Shkreli’s online offer last week prompted prosecutors to request that his bail be revoked — and the Secret Service to investigate. “On HRC’s book tour, try to grab a hair from her,” he wrote, referring to Mrs. Clinton. “Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained from Hillary Clinton.”
Although Mr. Shkreli edited the post to say that he had meant it to be satirical, and he later took it down altogether, prosecutors contended that there was a risk that one of Mr. Shkreli’s social media followers would take the post seriously and act on it.
It was, they noted, not the first time that Mr. Shkreli had made inflammatory posts on social media.
Just before his conviction, prosecutors wrote, Mr. Shkreli had made a sexual threat toward a female journalist on Twitter; since then, they wrote, “Shkreli has engaged in an escalating pattern of threats and harassment.”
Mr. Shkreli’s lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, argued at the hearing that Mr. Shkreli was not violent and that the post had been “a momentary lapse in judgment.”
Mr. Shkreli, he said, deserved another chance.
“Stupid doesn’t make you violent,” Mr. Brafman said, adding that his client’s Facebook posts had shown “immaturity, satire, a warped sense of humor.”
But Judge Matsumoto was unmoved.
“What is funny about that?” she responded. “He doesn’t know who his followers are.”
Judge Matsumoto said that while Mr. Shkreli had edited the original post to say, “this is satire, meant for humor,” the next day he put up another post that echoed the first: “$5,000 but the hair has to include a follicle. Do not assault anyone for any reason ever (LOLIBERALS).” Mr. Shkreli, dressed in a lavender button-down shirt, was animated for much of the hearing, as he had been throughout his trial. But his behavior changed when Judge Matsumoto said that she had decided to jail him, and he sat quietly at the defense table for the rest of the hearing.
After the hearing, two deputy United States marshals led Mr. Shkreli to a holding cell adjoining the courtroom. He will be held at a federal jail in Brooklyn.
NY Times
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On September 14 2017 13:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The comments on this are all over. I recommend donning a hazmat suit before visiting though
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Nothing but love for Pelosi and Schumer. Bigman Schumer brings home the goods for the Dems. You aren't going to be hearing any libs trashing P/S all of 2018 if they pull this one off.
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Pelosi is still a very pro corporate Dem. Who refuses to allow new blood in the dem party that she controls.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Why exactly are we supposed to forget about years of failures and suddenly worship Schumer and Pelosi? What happened that made people have this sudden reverence for a historically ineffectual pair?
(well Schumer only has had a short tenure as leader but you know what I mean)
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I doubt that this has much to do with Pelosi and Schumer beyond them being the beneficiaries of Trump's pivot. I've been saying for a while (I forget whether I said it around here) that eventually Trump is going to start giving Democrats things to get things that he wants, and that the Democrats will work with him if the prize is sweet enough, notwithstanding all of the other noise in DC. I'm just curious as to what the quid pro quo is. It wouldn't surprise me if it was minimal just get his presidency back on track.
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What failures? Pelosi has been in the minority for a long time, but when she was in the majority she ran a rocket docket of legislation. It was stuff dying in the senate from the 60 vote cloture rules, not Pelosi. Contrast her brief two years of majority leader under a Dem president to Paul Ryan's tenure under Trump. Pelosi was getting bills with the President, Ryan is ... watching Pelosi get bills with Trump? Lulz
EDIT: the measure for effectiveness of a majority leader should really be how well they can keep their caucus together on tough votes. Not easy ones. Not grandstanding go nowhere votes (like Ryan's 39 ACA repeals). Hard ones, where you make concessions but your bargaining power only works when everyone votes together.
Pelosi full stopped Trump's planned budget back in April. Schumer and Pelosi are writing Trump's budget right now. They are the minority leaders yet their caucus unity and ability to deliver votes is giving them far more power than they ought have. That is what a strong legislator looks like. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-budget/budget-deal-may-map-u-s-congress-road-ahead-via-trump-bypass-idUSKBN17X0YF
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On September 14 2017 15:16 Wulfey_LA wrote:What failures? Pelosi has been in the minority for a long time, but when she was in the majority she ran a rocket docket of legislation. It was stuff dying in the senate from the 60 vote cloture rules, not Pelosi. Contrast her brief two years of majority leader under a Dem president to Paul Ryan's tenure under Trump. Pelosi was getting bills with the President, Ryan is ... watching Pelosi get bills with Trump? Lulz EDIT: the measure for effectiveness of a majority leader should really be how well they can keep their caucus together on tough votes. Not easy ones. Not grandstanding go nowhere votes (like Ryan's 39 ACA repeals). Hard ones, where you make concessions but your bargaining power only works when everyone votes together. Pelosi full stopped Trump's planned budget back in April. Schumer and Pelosi are writing Trump's budget right now. They are the minority leaders yet their caucus unity and ability to deliver votes is giving them far more power than they ought have. That is what a strong legislator looks like. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-budget/budget-deal-may-map-u-s-congress-road-ahead-via-trump-bypass-idUSKBN17X0YF
Undoubtedly she shares responsibility for the 1000+ seats that Dems lost under her leadership. Obviously not all of it, but more than enough to keep her from being portrayed as failure free.
I think she's good at whipping votes, but I'd prefer replacing most of the people she has influence over (her included).
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
As I mentioned with my own local elections, Democrats are losing potential seats the same way they lost them before: by a thousand small incompetences all piling up such that Republicans get a clean sweep in pretty much any area of the country where the people could be convinced to vote either way.
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So she is an excellent caucus leader, but flatlanders get triggered by her San Francisco values. That flatlanders fell for lies on the FOXBOX sucks, but how can you place that at Pelosi's feet? Hannity would lie to his audience no matter what Pelosi did.
EDIT: imagine the reverses:
Would you say she is great if Dems were winning more legislative seats? Would you say she is bad if she could get votes and repeatedly let Dem policies get overran by Republican policy goals?
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On September 14 2017 06:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 05:58 KwarK wrote:On September 14 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On September 14 2017 05:39 KwarK wrote: If you would be willing to satisfy my curiousity xDaunt, in your opinion what was the year when specifically black political advocacy ceased to be justifiable? I'm making the assumption that you would presumably think that there were legitimate political causes that were divided on racial lines in, for example, the 1860s, but that you wouldn't agree that they still exist today (please let me know if that assumption is wrong, and if so why). I don't think that I am on board with the idea that black political advocacy has ceased being justifiable. There are clearly problems in the black community. Though these problems are not necessarily unique to the black community, they clearly are of a much larger magnitude there. Where I break with y'all on the left on these issues is whether racism is still the main problem. My answer to that is no, and for that reason, I believe that focusing on racism is not only misplaced but counterproductive. Returning to the incredibly well trodden ground of voting in Alabama purely because we've both already established a common understanding there. I know you said it was fixed earlier this year but it's still a sufficiently current issue to be used as an example of current problems. Would you have described that as a black issue? What, are you really going to blame voter suppression in Alabama for the fact that a stupidly large majority of black babies nationally are born out of wedlock? Let's focus on the big issues. The supposed need for a marriage to have kids surely is a cultural/religious problem (in this case same thing) in the US and you mixing correlation and causation.
And to add to that, saying some problems are bigger than others, especially if you're not even touched by them in the slightest, is rather full of contempt and ignorance of how the world works.
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On September 14 2017 09:06 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 14 2017 08:40 Plansix wrote:
In other news, Facebook counties to undermine our democracy. You know we do this type of stuff too right? We've all been doing it (with time-relevant technology) for a long time. The US is easily among the top offenders. As much of a prick Zuckerburg is and as problematic as facebook is, it's only useful to look at in the larger context rather than any specific event in a single election. Please show me the FB or Russian social-media group, called something like "Heart of Moscow", that was created by an American government operation. We're the "top offenders" of government-run social-media operations to subvert other countries' public-opinions? You sure about that? And regardless, whether the equivocation is false or not, really doesn't matter, does it? I just had this conversation with my brother (army officer). He says we're way behind on this. And with "we", he means all of NATO, not just the Netherlands.
Hybrid warfare and propaganda are the tools for 21st century wars, and ISIS and Russia caught on years before the west did. And specifically using subterfuge on the internet is something that we've been completely ignorant to. Anonymity is great in that everybody gets a voice. It also means that Al Baghdadi and Putin can pose as your friendly neighbor and push propaganda disguised as "friendly advice".
We also had a discussion about the ethicality of AI and worrying about the singularity. I told him to worry more about the ethicality of the tools we already have. At the time we didn't connect the two convos, but it seems quite obvious we should worry about the ethical ramifications of recommender systems. Both in terms of "attacks" like hostile interests subverting them, as well as more general questions about what it does to us that all our information is fed to us based on "what similar people liked to read/watch/do".
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On September 14 2017 16:23 Wulfey_LA wrote: So she is an excellent caucus leader, but flatlanders get triggered by her San Francisco values. That flatlanders fell for lies on the FOXBOX sucks, but how can you place that at Pelosi's feet? Hannity would lie to his audience no matter what Pelosi did.
EDIT: imagine the reverses:
Would you say she is great if Dems were winning more legislative seats? Would you say she is bad if she could get votes and repeatedly let Dem policies get overran by Republican policy goals?
There's a lot there.
I was saying she wasn't mistake free, and I would hold anyone there to a similar standard.
I have plenty of problems with her preventing me from considering her great, regardless of her performance at getting votes for mediocre (at best) legislation.
Her resistance to leading on MedicareForAll is a good example.
How do you think it is she's been so good at whipping votes BTW? Like what do you think she's doing to get the votes? What do you presume her leverage is to get people to vote differently then they would have without her involvement?
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I'll believe when I see it.
For years, climate change activists have faced a wrenching dilemma: how to persuade people to care about a grave but seemingly far-off problem and win their support for policies that might pinch them immediately in utility bills and at the pump.
But that calculus may be changing at a time when climatic chaos feels like a daily event rather than an airy abstraction, and storms powered by warming ocean waters wreak havoc on the mainland United States. Americans have spent weeks riveted by television footage of wrecked neighborhoods, displaced families, flattened Caribbean islands and submerged cities from Houston to Jacksonville.
“The conversation is shifting,” said Senator Brian Schatz, Democrat of Hawaii. “Because even if you don’t believe liberals, even if you don’t believe scientists, you can believe your own eyes.”
Despite consensus among scientists, not everyone is convinced that terrifying weather means climate change is an urgent threat. There is virtually no prospect of large-scale federal action on the issue in the near future, and President Trump has made a top priority of unraveling the Obama administration’s environmental policies, including the Paris climate accord. Republicans, who control the White House and Congress, remain broadly skeptical of climate science and rely heavily on the electoral support of oil- and coal-producing states.
But an array of political leaders — including some members of Mr. Trump’s party, along with emboldened Democrats and environmental activists — see the underlying dynamics of climate politics bending, as drastic weather events throw up practical challenges for red and blue states alike. Mr. Schatz, one of the Democrats’ most assertive spokesmen on global warming, said there were already “pockets of opportunity” to work with Republicans on measures to reinforce coastlines and support solar- and wind-energy production, though not on more ambitious policies.
“We can get a fair amount of bipartisanship if we talk about severe weather and resiliency,” Mr. Schatz said. “For some people, it’s just about the phrase ‘climate change’ being too politically loaded.”
Most movement among Republicans has come from moderates and lawmakers from areas vulnerable to flooding, where seeming oblivious to extreme weather could be politically risky. There have been no notable cracks in Republican opposition to climate policy among party leaders, or even within the powerful Texas congressional delegation — a group battered by Hurricane Harvey but fiercely protective of the state’s oil economy.
For the most part, senior Republicans have avoided directly discussing climate in the aftermath of Harvey and Hurricane Irma, which pounded the Southeast this week. They have focused chiefly on scrambling to get government aid to stricken states. The Environmental Protection Agency administrator, Scott Pruitt, said debating climate now would be “very, very insensitive.”
But in Florida, where Irma left more than a dozen dead and millions without electricity, a handful of Republicans have been more outspoken. The Republican mayor of Miami, Tomás Regalado, urged Mr. Trump last week to reconsider his climate policies. Several Florida lawmakers founded a bipartisan Climate Solutions Caucus in the House of Representatives, and the group’s Republican membership grew this year to two dozen.
The safe ground for Republicans, party strategists say, may be embracing proposals to mitigate certain effects of environmental change, while skirting debate about more drastic actions that experts see as essential.
That approach reached even the White House this week, with Thomas P. Bossert, Mr. Trump’s Homeland Security adviser, declaring that the administration takes “seriously the threat of climate change.” He added, somewhat vaguely, “Not the cause of it, but the things that we observe.”
Representative Scott Taylor of Virginia, a Republican whose district hugs the Atlantic Coast, said his constituents were growing more sensitive to the implications of climate change, including voters who lean to the right. Mr. Taylor, who is a member of the climate caucus, said he was still wary of hobbling fossil-fuel companies, but favors narrower measures to address dangerous environmental conditions. The Republican nominee for governor of Virginia this year, Ed Gillespie, has taken a similar tack, ignoring climate as an issue but releasing a plan on coastal flooding.
“We have to deal with issues like sea level rise and flooding and resiliency,” Mr. Taylor said, cautioning, “I don’t think we’re there, in a bipartisan way, for comprehensive action.”
Jay Faison, a wealthy Republican donor who has made clean energy a personal cause, said he found Republicans increasingly open to engaging around the edges of the climate issue. Mr. Faison said he had reason to believe there was “some appetite” among congressional leaders for backing resilient infrastructure and energy research.
“I’d like to see more, faster,” Mr. Faison said. “But we play the hand we’re dealt.”
Political polling has long found most voters sympathetic to policies that protect the environment, including the Paris agreement and rules proposed by the Obama administration to curb power-plant emissions. But Americans have also tended to rank climate low among their priorities, behind issues like health care and jobs.
Still, the trend toward taking climate change seriously has been unmistakable, and pollsters say it may intensify after a season of superstorms. In a Gallup poll this year, 45 percent of Americans said they worried about global warming a “great deal,” a sharp increase from the share in 2016 and the highest ever recorded in the poll. About 6 in 10 said they believed the consequences of global warming are already being felt.
But liberals and conservatives hold widely divergent views on climate, even within hard-hit states like Texas and Florida. And research conducted by the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication found that many who are concerned about climate change remain less convinced it will harm them directly.
Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster who has studied climate as a campaign issue, said that it was most relevant to voters as a “reference point” to judge a candidate’s worldview, and that voters tended to see those who reject climate science as extremists. Mr. Garin said catastrophic weather could make certain hard-line views less acceptable.
“The salience of climate change denialism grows at moments when the consequences of that are more abundantly clear,” Mr. Garin said, “such as when the country is hit by two exceptionally powerful storms, one right after the other.”
Is unclear whether climate will play a major part in the 2018 elections, when Democrats are defending a number of Senate seats in states that produce carbon fuel. Climate may feature more prominently in the 2020 elections, when a wider range of states will be contested and the environmental policies Mr. Trump has pursued through executive action — like withdrawing from the Paris agreement — will be more directly at issue.
But some Democratic candidates and political donors hope to punish conservative politicians before then. In Florida, Senator Bill Nelson, a Democrat seeking re-election next year, quickly went on the offensive this week, accusing one potential Republican opponent, Gov. Rick Scott, of having ignored the mounting threat of climate change.
And advisers to Tom Steyer, a billionaire investor who has spent millions supporting Democrats, said his political committee might seek to link Republicans in Florida, Nevada and California to environmental catastrophes in those states, like the summer hurricanes and wildfires out west.
Mr. Steyer said in an interview that acknowledging the impact of devastating storms should not get Republicans off the hook for opposing efforts to address global warming over all. He predicted the “human tragedy” of climate change would be a permanent feature of politics. “This is not an isolated incident,” he said of Irma and Harvey. “It’s going to happen again, only worse.”
Mr. Regalado, the Miami mayor, said many of his Republican colleagues were wary of being “called crazy or liberals” if they talked about climate. But he said voters on the ground had grown sharply aware of the risks they face.
“I don’t think my statements are going to change the way the administration thinks or the governor thinks, but let me tell you, people are afraid,” Mr. Regalado said. “People are understanding there is a new normal now.”
Source
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So, judging from comments from people like Chuck Grassley, it sounds like congressional committees were negotiating through all this currently, and then Trump just cuts-in.
So Trump is now insisting he did not give them a deal, because if he did, he just screwed over the ongoing Republican negotiations. "Undercut" them, Grassley says. That's the important part. It isn't just that he intruded. It's that he gave his position away for nothing.
Trump isn't a deal-maker. He's a tacky salesman, and his targets are idiots and dupes. He can't negotiate with savvy adults. He is prone to just do whatever makes him feel most important and "successful". He is the dupe. So, at the very least, Schumer and Pelosi have just again revealed what kind of actual businessman Trump is, and how he completely just doesn't understand the processes of... anything. There is no strategic mind behind that freakish head.
This really is the WWE President. The meaninglessness in the ways he has dealt with these issues is astounding.
He announces DACA-retirement in some 6-month countdown stunt. He sends AG Sessions out to justify deporting these people in public statements. And now he's tweeting what a terrible thing it would be to deport these people...? He talks with the Dems to make a deal. Everyone says a deal was made. Now Trump saying it didn't happen... This is schizo! This is a child that doesn't know what to do or what it wants, he just wants everyone to call him a "good boy" and forget about all the crap he just broke.
lol
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Norway28565 Posts
On September 14 2017 08:55 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2017 08:39 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 14 2017 08:29 Danglars wrote:On September 14 2017 06:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 14 2017 05:51 xDaunt wrote:On September 14 2017 05:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: So in theory, you're fine with terms like cultural Randism if a libertarian school of thought achieved influence on a similar level to the Frankfurt School? Why not? If there's a connection to Rand, I don't see the problem. I'm honestly not intimately familiar with her works, but I've had the impression that she, like Marx, is more about economy than culture, and that it'd be a pretty meaningless term. Honestly kind of secondary though, my main argument against the term is more along the lines of; What if the term is hardly ever used, but then gains popularity following a leftist timothy mcweigh who attacks and kills 100 boyscouts during the 2018 boyscout Jamboree where he prior to attacking posts an online manifesto where he specifies that he targeted those boyscouts because they were likely to be future representatives of Cultural Randism, a term that is consistently used to denigrate the political opponents of leftist timothy mcweigh. That's actually a pretty perfect parallel. And I can guarantee that I'd avoid the term if this is how it came to achieve notoriety.  I never heard the term in context of Breivik. I heard it as a critique of the ideology underpinning certain aspects of extreme political correctness and parts of leftist political ideology in the social/societal realm. I read around, reviewed chapters of foundational Marxist/Leninist works, and it's a pretty easy tie-in applying broad themes from the Marxist vision of economic thought to culture. It's all the power struggle of cultural forces, everything is victim/oppressor relationship ... you've just switched what and who is proletariat and bourgeoisie. The solution is undermining the existing system (incrementalist variant) and revolution. Now, if some Norwegian comes over and says the true history of the term is a nutty terrorist from Norway, I'm going to view you with incredulity. Marxist thought and ideology is far older than that dude. The works are widely known. Any semi intelligent man or woman can put the two and two together for societal critique. The ideas of Marx & Engels translated into culture wars. I see a central truth to the characterization. I don't personally use it that often, not because of one nut, but because evangelical preachers and politicians have misused it to encompass any cultural decay in society. Is your story of acquaintance with the term your unique path, the understanding of most Norwegians, or straight Scandinavian? https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=cultural marxismThat one really significant peak is where breivik's manifesto is posted. To be fair, it was used slightly more than I expected before that (I had never heard the term pre-breivik though), but this is when it became mainstream. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=NO&q=cultural marxism is the trend for Norway, as you can see, it's virtually non-existent pre-breivik. I definitely think most Norwegians share my understanding of the phrase. And I heard it as both the conspiracy theory (and silly conservative bugaboo) and relating Marxist theories to culture throughout the 2000s. As an example, here's Andrew Breitbart going off on it before the attack + Show Spoiler +SPLC references the 1998 William Lind speech Show nested quote +It has taken over both political parties and is enforced by many laws and government regulations. It almost totally controls the most powerful element in our culture, the entertainment industry. It dominates both public and higher education. ... It has even captured the clergy in many Christian churches. That writeup was published in 2003 and cited several persons and organizations. Buchanan, Nixon & Reagan adviser/speechwriter/etc and Republican presidential candidate, was probably my first exposure. His famous culture war speech (Republican National Convention 1992) and all the books and TV appearances. Explicit in his book and speeches. So suffice it to say, the term's been around. The last post I commented on its historical accuracy, and I'll restate here it does have a connotation of communist conspiracy if used indiscriminately.
Thanks for this. I'll internalize the information. 
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