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On August 14 2017 23:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 22:52 farvacola wrote:
Even the AG Super-Racist-Keebler-Elf who used to try and put away anti-Klan protestors admitted that the death in Charlottesville should be attributed to domestic terrorism. Sessions has always been into the more subtle forms of systematic racism. It is far more sustainable. The mayor had some interesting stuff to say on NPR. It looks like they tried to move the protest, but the ACLU sued(as they do) and beat that order. Also tried to ban sticks, shields and other weapons, which also failed. He said that the governors and elected officials need to have a talk with the judiciary about the limitations of police and what levels of violence they can deal with. He straight up said that many of the protesters were better equipped that the state police. I have to agree. I don’t have any problem with open carry laws, but there needs to be limitation. Peaceful protests while carrying semi-automatic rifles and body armor can never be truly safe for the public.
If it looks like a milita and it talks like a milita, it is NOT a peaceful protest. But muh 2nd amendment rights!!!
Pretty sure the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about the right to wave guns around during a "peaceful" protest. Just as the first amendment doesn't cover yelling "fire" in a crowded place.
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Not to go down the gun rights rabbit hole, but the 2nd amendment was written when guns took 10 seconds to reload after one shot, and the concept of militias was much more prevalent and real.
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On August 14 2017 21:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:The people publishing that are fucking monsters. The alt-right showing its true ugly, hateful, face and its ties to neo nazis and white supremacists gives a bitter taste to the memory of the "basket of deplorable" incident. Deplorable is an understatement, those people are absolute pond scums.
In fairness, there are a lot of people on the Alt-Right who hate Anglin and his ilk. The problem, however, is that they tolerated that branch of the Alt-Right for far too long instead of just cutting it off. As a general rule, Nazis don't do good things for branding.
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On August 14 2017 23:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 21:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:The people publishing that are fucking monsters. The alt-right showing its true ugly, hateful, face and its ties to neo nazis and white supremacists gives a bitter taste to the memory of the "basket of deplorable" incident. Deplorable is an understatement, those people are absolute pond scums. In fairness, there are a lot of people on the Alt-Right who hate Anglin and his ilk. The problem, however, is that they tolerated that branch of the Alt-Right for far too long instead of just cutting it off. As a general rule, Nazis don't do good things for branding.
The questipn is whether or not there is a continuity between the alt right, white supremacists and neo nazis, in other words, if it's a just matter of degree, or if there is a radical, qualitative difference in terms of philosophy and motivation between the most radical far right supporters tgat marched in Charlotte and the "regular" alt right.
To me it seems obvious that what we saw this week-end reveals something deep about what the alt-right really is about, but maybe I am wrong and regular alt-right folks have nothing to do with those fascists. What is your take on it? I ask very genuinely and I am interested to hear the other side on that one.
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On August 14 2017 23:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 23:37 xDaunt wrote:On August 14 2017 21:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:The people publishing that are fucking monsters. The alt-right showing its true ugly, hateful, face and its ties to neo nazis and white supremacists gives a bitter taste to the memory of the "basket of deplorable" incident. Deplorable is an understatement, those people are absolute pond scums. In fairness, there are a lot of people on the Alt-Right who hate Anglin and his ilk. The problem, however, is that they tolerated that branch of the Alt-Right for far too long instead of just cutting it off. As a general rule, Nazis don't do good things for branding. The questipn is whether or not there is a continuity between the alt right, white supremacists and neo nazis, in other words, if it's a just matter of degree, or if there is a radical, qualitative difference in terms of philosophy and motivation between the most radical far right supporters tgat marched in Charlotte and the "regular" alt right. To me it seems obvious that what we saw this week-end reveals something deep about what the alt-right really is about, but maybe I am wrong and regular alt-right folks have nothing to do with those fascists. What is your take on it? I ask very genuinely and I am interested to hear the other side on that one.
which alt-right? from what i've seen there's several subgroups which each claim to be "alt right" but have markedly different viewpoints.
with mayn things there's a continuity that occurs along a normal distribution; but just because they're on the same continuity doesn't mean the difference is insufficient to matter for "qualitative" purposes.
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On August 14 2017 23:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 23:37 xDaunt wrote:On August 14 2017 21:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:The people publishing that are fucking monsters. The alt-right showing its true ugly, hateful, face and its ties to neo nazis and white supremacists gives a bitter taste to the memory of the "basket of deplorable" incident. Deplorable is an understatement, those people are absolute pond scums. In fairness, there are a lot of people on the Alt-Right who hate Anglin and his ilk. The problem, however, is that they tolerated that branch of the Alt-Right for far too long instead of just cutting it off. As a general rule, Nazis don't do good things for branding. The questipn is whether or not there is a continuity between the alt right, white supremacists and neo nazis, in other words, if it's a just matter of degree, or if there is a radical, qualitative difference in terms of philosophy and motivation between the most radical far right supporters tgat marched in Charlotte and the "regular" alt right. To me it seems obvious that what we saw this week-end reveals something deep about what the alt-right really is about, but maybe I am wrong and regular alt-right folks have nothing to do with those fascists. What is your take on it? I ask very genuinely and I am interested to hear the other side on that one.
Rebranding of neo-nazis to alt-right is, in the end a thin layer of polish on a tired old trope. It's the exact same movement, just with different words.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists
It's like how they rebranded "creationism" to "intelligent design". It's the same turd, just using more politically savvy wording.
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Guess what color Ken Frazier's skin is. You only get one guess. Then guess how many tweets went to Elon Musk when he quit a council.
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On August 14 2017 23:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 23:37 xDaunt wrote:On August 14 2017 21:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:The people publishing that are fucking monsters. The alt-right showing its true ugly, hateful, face and its ties to neo nazis and white supremacists gives a bitter taste to the memory of the "basket of deplorable" incident. Deplorable is an understatement, those people are absolute pond scums. In fairness, there are a lot of people on the Alt-Right who hate Anglin and his ilk. The problem, however, is that they tolerated that branch of the Alt-Right for far too long instead of just cutting it off. As a general rule, Nazis don't do good things for branding. The questipn is whether or not there is a continuity between the alt right, white supremacists and neo nazis, in other words, if it's a just matter of degree, or if there is a radical, qualitative difference in terms of philosophy and motivation between the most radical far right supporters tgat marched in Charlotte and the "regular" alt right. To me it seems obvious that what we saw this week-end reveals something deep about what the alt-right really is about, but maybe I am wrong and regular alt-right folks have nothing to do with those fascists. What is your take on it? I ask very genuinely.
I took a good, hard look at the Alt Right last year, which I posted a quite a bit about at the time. As a disaffected conservative, I wanted to know whether I fit into the Alt Right. I concluded that I did not. The issue is that it is very difficult to separate white nationalism from the movement itself -- even though I'd suspect that the majority of the Alt Right does not accept white nationalism -- given that the term Alt Right was coined by a white supremacist. This is a non-starter for me. While I am generally on board with the Alt Right insofar as many of its principles are focused on culture, I don't see a particularly rational basis for distinguishing to the extent that the Alt Right does on the basis of race, either empirically or through my own personal experience. I suspect that most conservatives -- particularly the disaffected ones -- generally fall into my camp. While the idiots marching in Charlotte are not representative of the Alt Right, they are the most visible element of the Alt Right, which is problematic for obvious reasons.
And just to comment on the earlier discussion regarding what caused the emergence of the Alt Right, the big omission from the discuss is conservatism and the modern GOP. The whole reason why the Alt Right has any juice is because people like me recognize the catastrophic failure of conservatism to be a bulwark against the Left. Ask any conservative or person on the right what the lure to the Alt Right is, and the answer is always the same: "The Alt Right fights." This is why the term "cuckservative" has become so popular and has been so effective against mainstream conservatives.
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He is going to do great things for the economy with that attitude. Just throw people under the bus at the first sign of resistance. And people wonder why he can’t get anything done.
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He might have been more incentivized to lower drug prices if you hadn't gone into a meeting with Big Pharma planning to let Medicare negotiate and walked out saying "Medicare price-fixing" was a great evil, Donald. Oh wait, that's just another broken campaign promise for you.
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On August 14 2017 23:11 Acrofales wrote:Pretty sure the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about the right to wave guns around during a "peaceful" protest. Just as the first amendment doesn't cover yelling "fire" in a crowded place.
Don't you see that slippery slope though? Just you posting that here makes me pretty sure the gubmint is on its way right now to confiscate our guns and ammo.
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On August 15 2017 00:12 xDaunt wrote:And just to comment on the earlier discussion regarding what caused the emergence of the Alt Right, the big omission from the discuss is conservatism and the modern GOP. The whole reason why the Alt Right has any juice is because people like me recognize the catastrophic failure of conservatism to be a bulwark against the Left. Ask any conservative or person on the right what the lure to the Alt Right is, and the answer is always the same: "The Alt Right fights." This is why the term "cuckservative" has become so popular and has been so effective against mainstream conservatives.
I get that conservatives like you feel this way, but the reality is that the Left in the States has become more and more marginalized every year for 40 some years. The left, politically, has lost grounds on all fronts. The Supreme Court is far to the right of where it was in the 60's. Democrats used to always control the House, now they need to wait most likely at least a decade to hope to get it back, if Trump helps them. States are mostly in the hands of Republicans. The only exception that comes to mind is gay rights. Beyond that the only scary thing out there I can think of for you guys is the SJW stuff, but the only reason you see any of the scary SJW stuff is because of the internet. It's not a real political threat to you.
I guess maybe I forgot that some courts have determined that religious beliefs aren't grounds to refuse service to homosexuals. But let's face it, when that gets to the Supreme Court it will go your way.
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Was Musk part of the manufacturing council? Honestly I have no idea if race plays a factor in Trump's decision to criticize here. Attempting to draw a racial connection when it isn't really obvious is probably a bad idea. And there are plenty of really obvious racial things he has done.
I mainly doubt it because I'm not sure Trump even knows who this guy is.
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He was a coward,” Navarro said. “He didn’t have the spine to behave like the leader of the United States. And I find that to be shameful.”
She added: “I’m glad [Republicans] are finally — finally! — stopping looking the other way and confronting the fact he’s not only unfit to be president. In my book, his lack of empathy, his lack of leadership, his lack of courage, he’s unfit to be human.”
Navarro went on to slam Trump for not calling out white supremacy. She questioned how long it will take for him to do so.
“It’s been two days since Heather Heyer died, was murdered by a white supremacist,” Navarro said. “It’s been days since all sorts of spiritual, government, elected Republicans, Americans have been asking him and calling on him to say something and have the spine to call out white supremacy. And it’s going to take how many focus groups? It’s going to take how many days? It’s going to take how many pressure points?
CNN via www.mediaite.com
Rhetoric is ramping up again. I don't like Trump but he's clearly an expression of very human emotions. To call him unqualified to be human is the wrong approach - clearly the worst impulses of humanity should be guarded against by all sides, but to call them inhuman is to make them into cartoon villains, which is far less frightening than the reality of someone giving into the worst impulses that lie within.
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SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) — A Massachusetts police department is investigating a Facebook comment by an officer who wrote “Hahahaha love this” in response to a story about a car crashing into counter-protesters at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, killing one person and injuring at least 19 others.
Springfield Police Commissioner John Barbieri says he received a complaint about the comment Sunday and opened an internal investigation.
Officer Conrad Lariviere wrote in response to the violence: “Hahahaha love this, maybe people shouldn’t block road ways.”
In a Facebook interview with Masslive.com, Lariviere says he’s a “good man who made a stupid comment.”
Democratic Mayor Domenic Sarno says: “There is no place for this in our society, let alone from a Springfield Police Officer.”
An Ohio man is charged with second-degree murder and other counts over the crash.
Source
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That sounds like something a Springfield cop would do. For reference, Springfield MA is the only large citiy in the western part of Mass. It is also super poor due to a completely lack of jobs in the region. It has a much larger minority population in an area surrounded by poor, rural, and overwhelmingly white communities.
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On August 15 2017 01:00 frazzle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2017 00:12 xDaunt wrote:And just to comment on the earlier discussion regarding what caused the emergence of the Alt Right, the big omission from the discuss is conservatism and the modern GOP. The whole reason why the Alt Right has any juice is because people like me recognize the catastrophic failure of conservatism to be a bulwark against the Left. Ask any conservative or person on the right what the lure to the Alt Right is, and the answer is always the same: "The Alt Right fights." This is why the term "cuckservative" has become so popular and has been so effective against mainstream conservatives. I get that conservatives like you feel this way, but the reality is that the Left in the States has become more and more marginalized every year for 40 some years. The left, politically, has lost grounds on all fronts. The Supreme Court is far to the right of where it was in the 60's. Democrats used to always control the House, now they need to wait most likely at least a decade to hope to get it back, if Trump helps them. States are mostly in the hands of Republicans. The only exception that comes to mind is gay rights. Beyond that the only scary thing out there I can think of for you guys is the SJW stuff, but the only reason you see any of the scary SJW stuff is because of the internet. It's not a real political threat to you. I guess maybe I forgot that some courts have determined that religious beliefs aren't grounds to refuse service to homosexuals. But let's face it, when that gets to the Supreme Court it will go your way.
I don't really agree.
What I understand from conservatism is that, rather than wanting things to stay the way they are or were, it wants to keep intact certain very specific power structure and hierarchies. A racial hierarchy in society, which is an inheritance from the slavery era, a gender hierarchy at home with a patriarchal view on family and women, and a financial hierarchy at work where the employee should have the right to obey, and where money gives you power over poorer people than you.
From there, conservative can be more revolutionary than leftists, keeping in mind Lampedusa famous words: for everything to stay the same, everything has to change. See Banon.
In that analysis, conservatives are luckily losing everywhere. The american society is still hugely racist but immensely less so than a few decades ago, and racism has become something shameful. Gender inequalities have melted and feminism has improved gigantically women's rights and place in society. The only real victory for conservatism has been the death of unions and the grotesque rise in finantial inequalities, that the left has been unable to challenge.
I think the problem is that right wong folks have started to realize that the only thing that really interests the GOP is to cut aid for the poor and transfer wealth to the rich. And that the racial and sexual resentment the GOP leaders have been exploiting for decades is just a way to get the turkeys (poor white people) to vote again and again for Christmas (because the welfare state is all for those lazy black people). Paul Ryan doesn't give a crap about the so called culture war. What interests him is tax cuts for a class of billionaire that finance him.
It looks like in the last decade, the GOP has lost control of the ugly creature it has unleashed, and that the racism, sexism and anti-intellectual, anti-elite resentment it has nurtured since Reagan has taken an ugly life of its own, in the form of the Tea Party first, the alt right later and finally in the grotesque presidency of Donald Trump.
The con is basically over, but all the filth that they created in order to get there is very much alive.
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On August 15 2017 01:19 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +He was a coward,” Navarro said. “He didn’t have the spine to behave like the leader of the United States. And I find that to be shameful.”
She added: “I’m glad [Republicans] are finally — finally! — stopping looking the other way and confronting the fact he’s not only unfit to be president. In my book, his lack of empathy, his lack of leadership, his lack of courage, he’s unfit to be human.”
Navarro went on to slam Trump for not calling out white supremacy. She questioned how long it will take for him to do so.
“It’s been two days since Heather Heyer died, was murdered by a white supremacist,” Navarro said. “It’s been days since all sorts of spiritual, government, elected Republicans, Americans have been asking him and calling on him to say something and have the spine to call out white supremacy. And it’s going to take how many focus groups? It’s going to take how many days? It’s going to take how many pressure points? CNN via www.mediaite.comhttps://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/896558212333391873Rhetoric is ramping up again. I don't like Trump but he's clearly an expression of very human emotions. To call him unqualified to be human is the wrong approach - clearly the worst impulses of humanity should be guarded against by all sides, but to call them inhuman is to make them into cartoon villains, which is far less frightening than the reality of someone giving into the worst impulses that lie within.
unqualified to be human, rofl. Give me a break. They had such a great statement going until they fly off the deep end.
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On August 15 2017 01:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2017 01:00 frazzle wrote:On August 15 2017 00:12 xDaunt wrote:And just to comment on the earlier discussion regarding what caused the emergence of the Alt Right, the big omission from the discuss is conservatism and the modern GOP. The whole reason why the Alt Right has any juice is because people like me recognize the catastrophic failure of conservatism to be a bulwark against the Left. Ask any conservative or person on the right what the lure to the Alt Right is, and the answer is always the same: "The Alt Right fights." This is why the term "cuckservative" has become so popular and has been so effective against mainstream conservatives. I get that conservatives like you feel this way, but the reality is that the Left in the States has become more and more marginalized every year for 40 some years. The left, politically, has lost grounds on all fronts. The Supreme Court is far to the right of where it was in the 60's. Democrats used to always control the House, now they need to wait most likely at least a decade to hope to get it back, if Trump helps them. States are mostly in the hands of Republicans. The only exception that comes to mind is gay rights. Beyond that the only scary thing out there I can think of for you guys is the SJW stuff, but the only reason you see any of the scary SJW stuff is because of the internet. It's not a real political threat to you. I guess maybe I forgot that some courts have determined that religious beliefs aren't grounds to refuse service to homosexuals. But let's face it, when that gets to the Supreme Court it will go your way. I don't really agree. What I understand from conservatism is that, rather than wanting things to stay the way they are or were, it wants to keep intact certain very specific power structure and hierarchies. A racial hierarchy in society, which is an inheritance from the slavery era, a gender hierarchy at home with a patriarchal view on family and women, and a financial hierarchy at work where the employee should have the right to obey, and where money gives you power over poorer people than you. From there, conservative can be more revolutionary than leftists, keeping in mind Lampedusa famous words: for everything to stay the same, everything has to change. See Banon. In that analysis, conservatives are luckily losing everywhere. The american society is still hugely racist but immensely less so than a few decades ago, and racism has become something shameful. Gender inequalities have melted and feminism has improved gigantically women's rights and place in society. The only real victory for conservatism has been the death of unions and the grotesque rise in finantial inequalities, that the left has been unable to challenge. I think the problem is that right wong folks have started to realize that the only thing that really interests the GOP is to cut aid for the poor and transfer wealth to the rich. And that the racial and sexual resentment the GOP leaders have been exploiting for decades is just a way to get the turkeys (poor white people) to vote again and again for Christmas (because the welfare state is all for those lazy black people). Paul Ryan doesn't give a crap about the so called culture war. What interests him is tax cuts for a class of billionaire that finance him. It looks like in the last decade, the GOP has lost control of the ugly creature it has unleashed, and that the racism, sexism and anti-intellectual, anti-elite resentment it has nurtured since Reagan has taken an ugly life of its own, in the form of the Tea Party first, the alt right later and finally in the grotesque presidency of Donald Trump. The con is basically over, but all the filth that they created in order to get there is very much alive.
Yeah, fuck those "conservative" people. I hate them, too.
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This will do nothing. He opened Pandora's box already. They already think Trump is their guy. He has to fire Bannon and all of his goons before anyone will take this seriously.
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EPT
