• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:57
CEST 06:57
KST 13:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver4[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon84Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?174Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
[D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group C [ASL22] Ro16 Group B [ASL22] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6282 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8261

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8259 8260 8261 8262 8263 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-31 16:33:37
July 31 2017 16:13 GMT
#165201
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 31 2017 16:17 GMT
#165202
On July 31 2017 23:53 Plansix wrote:
The assault on public education on all fronts is the most depressing part of modern politics. It is one of the main reasons I did not stay in the field. It is rage inducing to watch people hamstring one of few public services that can provide real job skills and upward mobility. I listened to a report from NPR about Alabama having a teacher shortage problem because they pay their teachers the lowest amount in the entire nation. To resolve this, they removed all the requirements for teacher training and hoped some people from the private sector would fill ranks. This failed because hiring a biology teacher to perform surgery is also doomed to failure. I’m sure it will be another 10 years before they crack the code and pay more for teachers.

I seem to remember a few years back in Philly that some kids had to sit on the ground in some classes because the school district couldn't afford enough desks.

On August 01 2017 00:24 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2017 00:05 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Outspoken conservative commentator Tomi Lahren admitted she still benefits from a feature of Obamacare while arguing against it during a debate with Chelsea Handler on Saturday.

Lahren and Handler faced off at Politicon, a non-partisan event, which features debates, panels, film, and comedy. As expected, Lahren and Handler's conversation turned towards the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare.

Lahren, who supports Trump, slammed Obamacare and told Handler that while she believes in her right to purchase healthcare, she doesn't "believe it's my right to pay for it for other people,"Fortune reported.

While Lahren continued to rail on Obamacare, she admitted that she is still on her parent's health insurance plan because of it.

"Do you have a healthcare plan or no?" Handler asked Lahren during the exchange, according to Fortune.

"Well luckily, I'm 24, so I am still on my parents'," Lahren said.

The comment quickly drew a response from the crowd, which cheered and clapped.

A key component of the Affordable Care Act is that dependent children can stay on a parent's plan until age 26.

On social media, many responded to the news and slammed Lahren for being hypocritical.

Source

It's Monday and I'm thankful for the news. Be boring otherwise.

Wait, people listen to Tomi Lahren still? Conservatives still fawn over vapid but attractive women who are on "our side" I guess.

Young, pretty, blond hair, blue eyes, and says things you want to hear. She's basically the conservative dream waifu.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 31 2017 16:36 GMT
#165203
I feel bad for whoever has to sit on the hearing when the holocaust deniers get their day
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 31 2017 16:37 GMT
#165204
On August 01 2017 01:13 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'

the first change should be going back to the old rule where to filibuster you actually have to stand up there and talk; you can't simply declare a filibuster and block things.
Some of the state legislatures have some rules limiting filibuster requiring you to stay on topic, and prohibit excessively repeating yourself (so you can't just repeat the same speech over and over). I'd be fine with adding those.

As a practical observation: some of the stuff people do while talking in the legislature might well not be allowed in a court of law, where the rules of decorum and procedure are quite a bit tighter.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
July 31 2017 16:43 GMT
#165205
On August 01 2017 01:37 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2017 01:13 Falling wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'

the first change should be going back to the old rule where to filibuster you actually have to stand up there and talk; you can't simply declare a filibuster and block things.
Some of the state legislatures have some rules limiting filibuster requiring you to stay on topic, and prohibit excessively repeating yourself (so you can't just repeat the same speech over and over). I'd be fine with adding those.

Yeah, I think that would be a great place to start. Implement those two things and see where we end up. If that fixes the problem well enough, wonderful. But I'd certainly want to try that first before wiping out the filibuster/ going straight to simple majority.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-31 16:46:23
July 31 2017 16:46 GMT
#165206
Forcing them to stand for all filibusters would be more than enough to stop most abuses. Staying on topic seems like a great rule, but is also easily abused by the ruling party.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
July 31 2017 16:50 GMT
#165207
Bring back congressional sesquipedalianism in the vein of Henry Ashurst, I say!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 31 2017 16:57 GMT
#165208


This is a special kind of mean spirited. Petty isn't sufficient to discribe it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22567 Posts
July 31 2017 16:57 GMT
#165209
On August 01 2017 01:37 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2017 01:13 Falling wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'

the first change should be going back to the old rule where to filibuster you actually have to stand up there and talk; you can't simply declare a filibuster and block things.
Some of the state legislatures have some rules limiting filibuster requiring you to stay on topic, and prohibit excessively repeating yourself (so you can't just repeat the same speech over and over). I'd be fine with adding those.

As a practical observation: some of the stuff people do while talking in the legislature might well not be allowed in a court of law, where the rules of decorum and procedure are quite a bit tighter.

What would this actually accomplish?
You just wait a few hours until the guy gets tried or runs out of things to say and then pass your law regardless?
What problem does this solve?

If its about stopping the 'tyranny of the majority' then you need something more permanent.

Is there any government in the west (or elsewhere for that matter) where a simply majority is not enough? Only big things like constitutional amendments require more.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
July 31 2017 16:58 GMT
#165210
On August 01 2017 01:13 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'

See, this is the weird thing. I'm young enough that all the discussion of the filibuster I remember is Dems saying "this is stupid, we should only need 51 votes" and Republicans saying "no, this is sn essential part of democracy, it encourages bipartisanship and gives the people more voice, etc. etc." Now I guess we get to see ehether that was just opportunism from the Republicans, or if they really do believe the minority party should have that kind of power.

From Trump it looks like a pure power grab, plain and simple.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 31 2017 17:01 GMT
#165211
On August 01 2017 01:57 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2017 01:37 zlefin wrote:
On August 01 2017 01:13 Falling wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
On July 31 2017 11:46 Danglars wrote:
On July 31 2017 00:31 Doodsmack wrote:
Danglars to his credit has only minimally supported Trump and has justified his vote on narrow grounds relating to the US presidential election system (which may be a simplification but it captures a good portion). I could never agree on a vote for Donald Trump, simply because of competence and standing for the US, but that seems to be his view.

He's so damn unacceptable on everything but those narrow grounds. It was a close decision between skipping or throwing away my vote because I considered both totally insufferable. (And let's be real, California my vote doesn't matter anyways)

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to nuke the filibuster? I would have guessed that would pit real conservatives against Trump supporters, but I'm not in either camp and can't say for certain how they're likely to feel about that

I'm not him, but I still think it's a gamebreaking exploit at least in the way it is being utilized now. I thought that with the Republicans filibustering the Democrats, and I still think that with the Dem's filibustering the Republicans. There must be a way to have the filibuster that would allow the opposition to take a stand on key issues without them being able to hamstring the entire governing party. The most aggravating thing is that it seems you can stand there reading the phone book or Green Eggs and Ham (Ted Cruz). Or do they even have to filibuster now? Just say you are going to filibuster and no one shows up- just run through the motions? How does it work now? Like maybe a ruling that says you need to be at least on topic? That would be impressive if someone had actually had hours and hours of something to say on a subject. Although, ultimately I imagine that too, could be exploited: 'in order to establish my case to lay the ground work and understand the true context, let me read the entire history of America from our founding until now, all the Adams, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington Papers and 100 letters I have received from my contituency relating to the topic, once that is complete, I will begin my formal argumentation.'

the first change should be going back to the old rule where to filibuster you actually have to stand up there and talk; you can't simply declare a filibuster and block things.
Some of the state legislatures have some rules limiting filibuster requiring you to stay on topic, and prohibit excessively repeating yourself (so you can't just repeat the same speech over and over). I'd be fine with adding those.

As a practical observation: some of the stuff people do while talking in the legislature might well not be allowed in a court of law, where the rules of decorum and procedure are quite a bit tighter.

What would this actually accomplish?
You just wait a few hours until the guy gets tried or runs out of things to say and then pass your law regardless?
What problem does this solve?

If its about stopping the 'tyranny of the majority' then you need something more permanent.

Is there any government in the west (or elsewhere for that matter) where a simply majority is not enough? Only big things like constitutional amendments require more.

in terms of what it does: the filibuster used to be sparsely used, because you had to actually put effort into it; the problems with abuse of the filibuster mostly have come after they changed the rules to allow you to simply declare one, without having to actually stand there on the floor. it's also more meaningful as a protest if some form of actual sacrifice/effort, however mild, is required.

if there's only one guy talking, they can just invoke cloture anyways to end debate. if it's a whole party doing it, then they can each take turns talking, and should be able to keep it up for a very long time if they truly care to put in the effort.

it's not meant to be a perfect systemic solution, simply a minor improvement to the existing situation.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 31 2017 17:47 GMT
#165212
Foreign automakers have received billions of dollars in subsidies and tax incentives to build factories in the U.S. and create American jobs.

A new CBS News primetime series, "CBSN: On Assignment," uncovers the hidden foreign workforce being used to build sections of U.S. auto plants. The show premiers on CBS on Monday, July 31st at 10pm EST & PST, streaming simultaneously on CBSN, the network's streaming news service.

This CBSN investigation took us thousands of miles, from South Carolina to Slovenia, in eastern Europe, in search of answers.

For three years, Gerald Greiner managed safety on American construction projects for a German contractor called Eisenmann. His first job was at Mercedes in Vance, Alabama in 2013.

"There was Polish and Slovenian and Croatian people there," he told correspondent Vladimir Duthiers. "It was hard for me to believe because I just didn't understand why they would be here."

What did they do? "Anywhere from steel erection to pipe fitting to pouring concrete to installing equipment, just about everything."

The cars would be built by American workers — but the building of the auto plants was being done by foreign workers. "Exactly," said Greiner. "They come in at groundbreaking, they're done at start of production."

Duthiers asked, "Did you think to yourself that the jobs that these guys were doing could be done by Americans?"

"Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes."

Our investigation led us to an apartment complex in Spartanburg, South Carolina, where it appeared workers from Slovenia and Croatia were being housed by their employer.

Around 6:30 a.m., the workers had one last cigarette, before a van came to take them to work.

A CBS producer filmed the van of workers going through BMW security at 6:45 a.m. The producer shot 15 or more vans and vehicles filled with workers from Eastern Europe.

"I'm angry. Angry," said Daniel Travancic, who has worked for the Local 104 sheet metal workers union out of San Jose, California for more than a decade.

"There's lots of guys out there still looking for work in the United States," he said. "And now we have how many thousands and thousands of East European workers working here, and they're abused, too? Who lets this happen?"

Automakers declined CBS News' requests for an interview.

In statements they said, "Their contractors are legally obligated to comply with all immigration, safety and employment laws, and any violations are promptly addressed."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
July 31 2017 18:16 GMT
#165213
On August 01 2017 02:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Foreign automakers have received billions of dollars in subsidies and tax incentives to build factories in the U.S. and create American jobs.

A new CBS News primetime series, "CBSN: On Assignment," uncovers the hidden foreign workforce being used to build sections of U.S. auto plants. The show premiers on CBS on Monday, July 31st at 10pm EST & PST, streaming simultaneously on CBSN, the network's streaming news service.

This CBSN investigation took us thousands of miles, from South Carolina to Slovenia, in eastern Europe, in search of answers.

For three years, Gerald Greiner managed safety on American construction projects for a German contractor called Eisenmann. His first job was at Mercedes in Vance, Alabama in 2013.

"There was Polish and Slovenian and Croatian people there," he told correspondent Vladimir Duthiers. "It was hard for me to believe because I just didn't understand why they would be here."

What did they do? "Anywhere from steel erection to pipe fitting to pouring concrete to installing equipment, just about everything."

The cars would be built by American workers — but the building of the auto plants was being done by foreign workers. "Exactly," said Greiner. "They come in at groundbreaking, they're done at start of production."

Duthiers asked, "Did you think to yourself that the jobs that these guys were doing could be done by Americans?"

"Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes."

Our investigation led us to an apartment complex in Spartanburg, South Carolina, where it appeared workers from Slovenia and Croatia were being housed by their employer.

Around 6:30 a.m., the workers had one last cigarette, before a van came to take them to work.

A CBS producer filmed the van of workers going through BMW security at 6:45 a.m. The producer shot 15 or more vans and vehicles filled with workers from Eastern Europe.

"I'm angry. Angry," said Daniel Travancic, who has worked for the Local 104 sheet metal workers union out of San Jose, California for more than a decade.

"There's lots of guys out there still looking for work in the United States," he said. "And now we have how many thousands and thousands of East European workers working here, and they're abused, too? Who lets this happen?"

Automakers declined CBS News' requests for an interview.

In statements they said, "Their contractors are legally obligated to comply with all immigration, safety and employment laws, and any violations are promptly addressed."


Source

There's nothing saying that they must hire American if an American can do the job. Cheapest labor wins out.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
July 31 2017 18:19 GMT
#165214
On August 01 2017 03:16 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2017 02:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Foreign automakers have received billions of dollars in subsidies and tax incentives to build factories in the U.S. and create American jobs.

A new CBS News primetime series, "CBSN: On Assignment," uncovers the hidden foreign workforce being used to build sections of U.S. auto plants. The show premiers on CBS on Monday, July 31st at 10pm EST & PST, streaming simultaneously on CBSN, the network's streaming news service.

This CBSN investigation took us thousands of miles, from South Carolina to Slovenia, in eastern Europe, in search of answers.

For three years, Gerald Greiner managed safety on American construction projects for a German contractor called Eisenmann. His first job was at Mercedes in Vance, Alabama in 2013.

"There was Polish and Slovenian and Croatian people there," he told correspondent Vladimir Duthiers. "It was hard for me to believe because I just didn't understand why they would be here."

What did they do? "Anywhere from steel erection to pipe fitting to pouring concrete to installing equipment, just about everything."

The cars would be built by American workers — but the building of the auto plants was being done by foreign workers. "Exactly," said Greiner. "They come in at groundbreaking, they're done at start of production."

Duthiers asked, "Did you think to yourself that the jobs that these guys were doing could be done by Americans?"

"Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes."

Our investigation led us to an apartment complex in Spartanburg, South Carolina, where it appeared workers from Slovenia and Croatia were being housed by their employer.

Around 6:30 a.m., the workers had one last cigarette, before a van came to take them to work.

A CBS producer filmed the van of workers going through BMW security at 6:45 a.m. The producer shot 15 or more vans and vehicles filled with workers from Eastern Europe.

"I'm angry. Angry," said Daniel Travancic, who has worked for the Local 104 sheet metal workers union out of San Jose, California for more than a decade.

"There's lots of guys out there still looking for work in the United States," he said. "And now we have how many thousands and thousands of East European workers working here, and they're abused, too? Who lets this happen?"

Automakers declined CBS News' requests for an interview.

In statements they said, "Their contractors are legally obligated to comply with all immigration, safety and employment laws, and any violations are promptly addressed."


Source

There's nothing saying that they must hire American if an American can do the job. Cheapest labor wins out.


It is the disconnect between free market and MAGA
Something witty
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
July 31 2017 18:25 GMT
#165215
I guess the argument here is: since they received some tax exemptions from US gov. they should provide jobs for US citizens. This kinda makes sense, however its kinda strange that its economicaly plausible to fly and house unskilled labor to/in US compared to Your domestic workforce. Flying people to US isnt exactly cheap. US unskilled labor have to high demands?
Pathetic Greta hater.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 31 2017 18:32 GMT
#165216
On August 01 2017 03:25 Silvanel wrote:
I guess the argument here is: since they received some tax exemptions from US gov. they should provide jobs for US citizens. This kinda makes sense, however its kinda strange that its economicaly plausible to fly and house unskilled labor to/in US compared to Your domestic workforce. Flying people to US isnt exactly cheap. US unskilled labor have to high demands?

We have unions and people that are willing to use the US court system to hold those companies accountable if they get hurt. The companies are avoiding the costs employing US workers while also receiving massive tax cuts. And they are doing it secretly to avoid the bad PR.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
July 31 2017 18:32 GMT
#165217
On August 01 2017 03:25 Silvanel wrote:
I guess the argument here is: since they received some tax exemptions from US gov. they should provide jobs for US citizens. This kinda makes sense, however its kinda strange that its economicaly plausible to fly and house unskilled labor to/in US compared to Your domestic workforce. Flying people to US isnt exactly cheap. US unskilled labor have to high demands?

These Eastern Euros are probably immigrants in the US already. I highly doubt they are flying in from Yugoslavia just to build a plant and then leaving. The money would be worth it, but not for the contractors. It's the same as hiring Mexicans to build shit. Cheap labor.

Americans are an entire different set of burden on the companies, with labor laws and unions, etc. Undocumented immigrants just work and if they get hurt, they hit a small clinic, pay cash, receive treatment, and get out.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
July 31 2017 18:33 GMT
#165218
Unskilled construction labor is overwhelmingly unionized here, so these kinds of labor import strategies are basically a government sanctioned workaround.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8184 Posts
July 31 2017 18:33 GMT
#165219
On August 01 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/891751062453063682

This is a special kind of mean spirited. Petty isn't sufficient to discribe it.

At the same time, we've known for quite a while he was a horrible human being.. I have no pity for the people who decide to serve him.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32755 Posts
July 31 2017 18:40 GMT
#165220
On August 01 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/891751062453063682

This is a special kind of mean spirited. Petty isn't sufficient to discribe it.

Not surprised to see this coming from the president who denied Spicer, a Catholic, to meet the Pope because Spicer displeased him.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Prev 1 8259 8260 8261 8262 8263 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 182
ProTech124
Nina 66
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2094
Hyuk 163
Bale 91
Aegong 33
Noble 14
Icarus 7
League of Legends
JimRising 727
Other Games
summit1g14336
Liquid`RaSZi2310
Maynarde145
Mew2King59
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1478
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH225
• Hupsaiya 93
• practicex 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1226
• Lourlo918
• Stunt260
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
5h 3m
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
6h 3m
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 3m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
1d 6h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
6 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.