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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7850

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
June 13 2017 17:56 GMT
#156981
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)

They both won presidencies in sort of strange circumstances with lower than usual votes, due to Perot for Clinton and and a combination of being a pussy grabber and his opponent being Hillary Clinton for Trump. Trumps unfavorable rating is still way higher
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 13 2017 17:58 GMT
#156982
I doubt hillary would end up lower than Trump. at least unless the progressives got sufficiently pissed off; while osme of them are, I don't think enough of them are for her approval ratings to have gotten that low; and a new scandal wouldn't be likely to emerge and/or have much effect, what with people having already made up their mind one way or the other.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 13 2017 17:58 GMT
#156983
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-13 18:01:41
June 13 2017 18:00 GMT
#156984
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I dunno if we can say that with any certainty. The loser stink and "you let this happen" stink are doubtless dragging her numbers down in polling and Bill had his own miasma going on. I think she had a better favorable/unfavorable split on on election day than Trump, after all (did get more votes and all that)

Maybe if the emails had dragged out, but considering Trump hasn't managed to scrounge up anything I think they would have ground down
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46506 Posts
June 13 2017 18:01 GMT
#156985
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


Not necessarily:

1. Hillary was more popular than Trump was, this election.
2. God knows she's far more competent and has half a brain.
3. Bill =/= Hillary.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 13 2017 18:03 GMT
#156986
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
June 13 2017 18:05 GMT
#156987
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I think a lot of people assumed Trump's persona was more of a gag than who he really is. People looked at the fact that he is a billionaire and assumed he was actually a really well connected, competent guy who would have a good understanding of how to move the country forward. Crude, a little ignorant, a little racist, and disrespectful, but a lot of people had genuine belief in his competence.

And I think a lot of people now, especially the centrist manufacturing types, are realizing it was all a sham. I think Clinton was so well understood at this point that her approval wouldn't have really gone that far down. A lot of Trump's approval tanking has been a result of people realizing this is all we're getting and he really isn't that great at doing much of anything government related.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 13 2017 18:06 GMT
#156988
On June 14 2017 03:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


3. Bill =/= Hillary.

While the other two are true (but doesn't necessarily mean people would like her anyways), this last one is not a comparison that works out positively for her.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46506 Posts
June 13 2017 18:09 GMT
#156989
On June 14 2017 03:06 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 03:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


3. Bill =/= Hillary.

While the other two are true (but doesn't necessarily mean people would like her anyways), this last one is not a comparison that works out positively for her.


It neither works out positively nor negatively, necessarily. All it means is that anything (good or bad) attached to Bill isn't necessarily attached to Hillary.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 13 2017 18:09 GMT
#156990
On June 14 2017 03:05 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I think a lot of people assumed Trump's persona was more of a gag than who he really is. People looked at the fact that he is a billionaire and assumed he was actually a really well connected, competent guy who would have a good understanding of how to move the country forward. Crude, a little ignorant, a little racist, and disrespectful, but a lot of people had genuine belief in his competence.

And I think a lot of people now, especially the centrist manufacturing types, are realizing it was all a sham. I think Clinton was so well understood at this point that her approval wouldn't have really gone that far down. A lot of Trump's approval tanking has been a result of people realizing this is all we're getting and he really isn't that great at doing much of anything government related.

The saddest part about this is that Trumps general incompetence will not dispel the myth that being a CEO grants you magical powers to be good a superior elected official.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9069 Posts
June 13 2017 18:19 GMT
#156991
On June 14 2017 03:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/874687582122254336

It's as if they wake up, grab the Folgers can that holds their shit for the day, and take a big bite out of it. They eat so much of their own shit, they believe it. And they don't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

This entire administration's policies are going to be hell to fix next presidency.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 13 2017 18:22 GMT
#156992
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
June 13 2017 18:41 GMT
#156993
On June 14 2017 03:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 03:05 Mohdoo wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I think a lot of people assumed Trump's persona was more of a gag than who he really is. People looked at the fact that he is a billionaire and assumed he was actually a really well connected, competent guy who would have a good understanding of how to move the country forward. Crude, a little ignorant, a little racist, and disrespectful, but a lot of people had genuine belief in his competence.

And I think a lot of people now, especially the centrist manufacturing types, are realizing it was all a sham. I think Clinton was so well understood at this point that her approval wouldn't have really gone that far down. A lot of Trump's approval tanking has been a result of people realizing this is all we're getting and he really isn't that great at doing much of anything government related.

The saddest part about this is that Trumps general incompetence will not dispel the myth that being a CEO grants you magical powers to be good a superior elected official.


CEO of what? The Trump business empire never expanded beyond his immediate family and some properties he owned but didn't manage. CEOs have to work with numerous powerful VPs and answer to the board. Trump only ever answered to Trump himself.
Garbels
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria653 Posts
June 13 2017 18:43 GMT
#156994
The sessions testimony is starting now.


(new york times)
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 13 2017 18:45 GMT
#156995
On June 14 2017 03:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 03:09 Plansix wrote:
On June 14 2017 03:05 Mohdoo wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I think a lot of people assumed Trump's persona was more of a gag than who he really is. People looked at the fact that he is a billionaire and assumed he was actually a really well connected, competent guy who would have a good understanding of how to move the country forward. Crude, a little ignorant, a little racist, and disrespectful, but a lot of people had genuine belief in his competence.

And I think a lot of people now, especially the centrist manufacturing types, are realizing it was all a sham. I think Clinton was so well understood at this point that her approval wouldn't have really gone that far down. A lot of Trump's approval tanking has been a result of people realizing this is all we're getting and he really isn't that great at doing much of anything government related.

The saddest part about this is that Trumps general incompetence will not dispel the myth that being a CEO grants you magical powers to be good a superior elected official.


CEO of what? The Trump business empire never expanded beyond his immediate family and some properties he owned but didn't manage. CEOs have to work with numerous powerful VPs and answer to the board. Trump only ever answered to Trump himself.

I am talking about the myth that being successful in the private sector running a business will magically make that person capable streamlining government.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
June 13 2017 18:56 GMT
#156996
That goes back to Calvinist ideas of wealth meaning approval from god. Would be nice if that went away ... but ...
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-13 19:03:51
June 13 2017 19:02 GMT
#156997
On June 14 2017 03:45 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 03:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:
On June 14 2017 03:09 Plansix wrote:
On June 14 2017 03:05 Mohdoo wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)


I think a lot of people assumed Trump's persona was more of a gag than who he really is. People looked at the fact that he is a billionaire and assumed he was actually a really well connected, competent guy who would have a good understanding of how to move the country forward. Crude, a little ignorant, a little racist, and disrespectful, but a lot of people had genuine belief in his competence.

And I think a lot of people now, especially the centrist manufacturing types, are realizing it was all a sham. I think Clinton was so well understood at this point that her approval wouldn't have really gone that far down. A lot of Trump's approval tanking has been a result of people realizing this is all we're getting and he really isn't that great at doing much of anything government related.

The saddest part about this is that Trumps general incompetence will not dispel the myth that being a CEO grants you magical powers to be good a superior elected official.


CEO of what? The Trump business empire never expanded beyond his immediate family and some properties he owned but didn't manage. CEOs have to work with numerous powerful VPs and answer to the board. Trump only ever answered to Trump himself.

I am talking about the myth that being successful in the private sector running a business will magically make that person capable streamlining government.


the average american doesnt understand the difference in corporate governance between a closely held family corporation and a publicly held company with an independent board of directors. hell, they might not even know what corporate governance is.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 13 2017 19:03 GMT
#156998
As it stands, being a business owner in the US is akin to godhood. Unfortunately, more often than not, business owners let that treatment go to their heads.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-13 19:07:48
June 13 2017 19:07 GMT
#156999
On June 14 2017 04:03 LegalLord wrote:
As it stands, being a business owner in the US is akin to godhood. Unfortunately, more often than not, business owners let that treatment go to their heads.

The funny part is how reliant small businesses are on goofy tax write offs and other various things that give people a boot strap feeling. In reality, they are living off welfare. The number of small business owners who I have known to use their "company vehicle" as their primary mode of transportation...
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
June 13 2017 19:08 GMT
#157000
On June 14 2017 02:54 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2017 02:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/874684941682036739

So... we can say Trump is on par with Clinton?

If Billy was that unpopular five months in, Hillary would probably be worse than Trump. Lol.

(To be fair the entire reason for Trump low popularity is that he invents his own crises.)

You looked only at approval. Trump's disapproval is way higher, making his spread 12 points worse
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
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