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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7806

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-08 16:30:46
June 08 2017 16:30 GMT
#156101
Breaking: Trump's lawyer to speak after Comey hearing.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13422 Posts
June 08 2017 16:31 GMT
#156102
Comey in no uncertain terms, says that he feels he was fired because he was undertaking an investigation into russia.

Full stop.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
June 08 2017 16:31 GMT
#156103
On June 09 2017 01:29 Logo wrote:
The weird thing about the GOP's line of defense here seems to be that the two statements:

1. Trump saying "I hope"
2. Trump saying he fired Comey because of Russia investigations

Require different criteria for interpreting Trump's words to get Trump out of the situation. In one case you have to take the words quite literally (I hope) and in the other you need to hand wave the words as being less literal.


Unfortunately, the capacity for recognizing cognitive dissonance is an exclusion criteria for serving in Congress (be you D or R or I).
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 08 2017 16:32 GMT
#156104
On June 09 2017 01:27 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 01:21 xDaunt wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:08 xDaunt wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On June 09 2017 00:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Trump is so fucked if there are tapes.


Considering from a legal perspective Comey's memos are functionally tapes, Trump's fucked if he wants to dispute events unless there ARE tapes and they show Comey was a liar.

It's hard to say pit Trump's word against Comey's when the very first thing Trump did was lie about what the FBI thought of Comey.

A couple things here. First, the memos aren't as good as tapes. These are Comey's recollections. Second, the memos are not going to be helpful to Comey because he is going to be limited by what's in them. Let's just presume that Comey isn't an idiot and his opening remarks are entirely consistent with his memos factually (if they're not, then Comey is a liar, and Trump wins anyway). If that's the case, then Trump doesn't have anything to worry about because all that's in the memos isn't going to be enough to show obstruction of justice.


The taken-immediately-afterwards memorandums and recollections of an FBI agent are about as good as you can get, bar actual tapes. If Trump wants to contest the contents of any of the memos, he needs tapes. Period.

The memos are designed to show intent for Trump to obstruct by firing, not necessarily by what Trump did in the memos themselves. This is why Republicans aren't touching on the firing at all, because it's a hot garbage fire.

If Trump could refute the memos and spin his outrageous "my statements should be taken literally" about everything he said after the fact, it would be harder to show any intent to obstruct the Russia investigation.

Actually, the memos don't really show that intent. That's the problem with them. You have to read in between all sorts of lines to gather that intent. Trump's action as set forth in those memos is inconsistent with interfering with the investigation. Yes, he wanted the investigation to stop, but at no point did he do anything to impede it. This leaves the door open to more plausible explanations for Comey's firing (like the one that I laid out yesterday) and gives Trump carte blanche to shape his own narrative. In short, Democrats need something else. I'm not saying that it's not out there, but they aren't there yet.


The memos clearly show Trump wanted the investigation to stop sooner rather than later. And then fired Comey. There's no space "I wanted the investigation to conclude naturally" if you take them as fact.

100% confirming Trump explicitly told Comey he wanted the investigation over with is a big deal for building a link of "Trump unhappy investigation isn't over-> fire Comey." Without the former, we just have a firing and then potentially Trump being (incorrectly) happy the investigation was going to be over sooner.

There's plenty room for alternative reasons for the termination. You're just hyper-focused on one possible explanation.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 08 2017 16:32 GMT
#156105
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 08 2017 16:32 GMT
#156106
McCain again proving why we need term limits.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-08 16:34:59
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156107
On June 09 2017 01:30 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 01:26 Doodsmack wrote:

And the obvious rebuttal is "where is the gun?"

You are aware he was literally...fired.

Edit: Also Why is McCain talking about e-mails? As if somehow James Comey is still investigating them as opposed to being fired. WTF is McCain even asking?
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-08 16:35:06
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156108
What is McCain spinning here? But Clinton .... Russia ... Clinton is Russia?

EDIT: what? WHAT? I think McCain is trying to say that Comey should have closed out the Trump investigation ... because he closed out the Clinton investigation? This is the logic of a 3 year old who saw another three year old finish their ice cream.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156109
On June 09 2017 01:32 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 01:27 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:21 xDaunt wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:08 xDaunt wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On June 09 2017 00:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Trump is so fucked if there are tapes.


Considering from a legal perspective Comey's memos are functionally tapes, Trump's fucked if he wants to dispute events unless there ARE tapes and they show Comey was a liar.

It's hard to say pit Trump's word against Comey's when the very first thing Trump did was lie about what the FBI thought of Comey.

A couple things here. First, the memos aren't as good as tapes. These are Comey's recollections. Second, the memos are not going to be helpful to Comey because he is going to be limited by what's in them. Let's just presume that Comey isn't an idiot and his opening remarks are entirely consistent with his memos factually (if they're not, then Comey is a liar, and Trump wins anyway). If that's the case, then Trump doesn't have anything to worry about because all that's in the memos isn't going to be enough to show obstruction of justice.


The taken-immediately-afterwards memorandums and recollections of an FBI agent are about as good as you can get, bar actual tapes. If Trump wants to contest the contents of any of the memos, he needs tapes. Period.

The memos are designed to show intent for Trump to obstruct by firing, not necessarily by what Trump did in the memos themselves. This is why Republicans aren't touching on the firing at all, because it's a hot garbage fire.

If Trump could refute the memos and spin his outrageous "my statements should be taken literally" about everything he said after the fact, it would be harder to show any intent to obstruct the Russia investigation.

Actually, the memos don't really show that intent. That's the problem with them. You have to read in between all sorts of lines to gather that intent. Trump's action as set forth in those memos is inconsistent with interfering with the investigation. Yes, he wanted the investigation to stop, but at no point did he do anything to impede it. This leaves the door open to more plausible explanations for Comey's firing (like the one that I laid out yesterday) and gives Trump carte blanche to shape his own narrative. In short, Democrats need something else. I'm not saying that it's not out there, but they aren't there yet.


The memos clearly show Trump wanted the investigation to stop sooner rather than later. And then fired Comey. There's no space "I wanted the investigation to conclude naturally" if you take them as fact.

100% confirming Trump explicitly told Comey he wanted the investigation over with is a big deal for building a link of "Trump unhappy investigation isn't over-> fire Comey." Without the former, we just have a firing and then potentially Trump being (incorrectly) happy the investigation was going to be over sooner.

There's plenty room for alternative reasons for the termination. You're just hyper-focused on one possible explanation.

To be fair, that is the explanation that Trump gave for the firing during a TV interview a couple days later.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156110
McCain doesn't make any sense
Neosteel Enthusiast
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156111
What is McCain even trying to say here.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
June 08 2017 16:33 GMT
#156112
where the fuck is Mcain going
WriterXiao8~~
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13422 Posts
June 08 2017 16:34 GMT
#156113
On June 09 2017 01:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 01:30 xDaunt wrote:
On June 09 2017 01:26 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/872848498667945984

And the obvious rebuttal is "where is the gun?"

You are aware he was literally...fired.


Yeah its smoking and in his hands .... because he didn't follow through on the hope
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13422 Posts
June 08 2017 16:34 GMT
#156114
On June 09 2017 01:33 Kipsate wrote:
where the fuck is Mcain going


Clock running lets go
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 08 2017 16:34 GMT
#156115
Don't mean to be disrespectful but it's sad what McCain has become, it's obvious if he ever retired or were voted out if office he would die shortly after. It's like he no idea what else to do.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 08 2017 16:35 GMT
#156116
Holy shit McCain. Are you all there?
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
June 08 2017 16:35 GMT
#156117
McCain missed his meds this morning...
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13422 Posts
June 08 2017 16:35 GMT
#156118
Even comey is confused as to what is going on
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
June 08 2017 16:35 GMT
#156119
On June 09 2017 01:24 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 01:21 ZeromuS wrote:
WHY ARE WE ON EMAILS AGAIN WHY


It's an important point of discussion. Just because you don't want to hear the truth that Lynch's justice department was impartial, and then lead to comey doing the press conference which then lead to the letter pre election week, which then impacted where we are now in a significant way, doesn't mean its not worth bringing it up. Comey has a chance to shed light into their bs meeting on the tarmac. Stop selectively choosing which of these partisan hacks to focus on, let's find out about all of them.

I mean sure, it is a problem. It just seems somewhat unrelated to the actual reason Comey is here to the point that attempting to redirect attention to it so often is clearly an attempt at misdirection.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
June 08 2017 16:35 GMT
#156120
Is everything alright with Mcain wtf he is also like stumbling a bit and stuff
WriterXiao8~~
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