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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7697

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
May 31 2017 18:41 GMT
#153921
On June 01 2017 03:34 Mohdoo wrote:
So let's say Comey testifies saying "Trump encouraged me to end the investigation", what does that actually mean? Is that obstruction? Or would he have to "ask me to stop the investigation"? Does he have to actually take action to end the investigation? Would the combination of encouraging Comey to end it, then firing Comey after refusing to end it, be obstruction?

grey area; not enough to get a conviction; especially not when dealing with something like a president.
at least that's my impression.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-31 18:47:40
May 31 2017 18:47 GMT
#153922
On June 01 2017 03:34 Mohdoo wrote:
So let's say Comey testifies saying "Trump encouraged me to end the investigation", what does that actually mean? Is that obstruction? Or would he have to "ask me to stop the investigation"? Does he have to actually take action to end the investigation? Would the combination of encouraging Comey to end it, then firing Comey after refusing to end it, be obstruction?

I think it is a strong case for obstruction with the other evidence and statements from Trump about firing Comey. The tone really matters, but all the evidence points towards an active effort to end the investigation on the White House. And Comey will testify he felt pressured to end the investigation, which is the real substance of testimony. The semantics are less important than what resulted.

Just think of the classic “I would be a real shame if someone happened to your place of business” we hear in poorly written mob movies.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
May 31 2017 18:54 GMT
#153923
On June 01 2017 03:41 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2017 03:34 Mohdoo wrote:
So let's say Comey testifies saying "Trump encouraged me to end the investigation", what does that actually mean? Is that obstruction? Or would he have to "ask me to stop the investigation"? Does he have to actually take action to end the investigation? Would the combination of encouraging Comey to end it, then firing Comey after refusing to end it, be obstruction?

grey area; not enough to get a conviction; especially not when dealing with something like a president.
at least that's my impression.


Is this just for encouraged, or does this also apply to being direct asked? "I want you to end this investigation" would be obstruction? In my ignorant eyes, asking someone to end an investigation, then firing them when they don't, is about as cut and dry as it gets when trying to obstruct an investigation.
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
May 31 2017 19:00 GMT
#153924
On June 01 2017 03:41 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2017 03:34 Mohdoo wrote:
So let's say Comey testifies saying "Trump encouraged me to end the investigation", what does that actually mean? Is that obstruction? Or would he have to "ask me to stop the investigation"? Does he have to actually take action to end the investigation? Would the combination of encouraging Comey to end it, then firing Comey after refusing to end it, be obstruction?

grey area; not enough to get a conviction; especially not when dealing with something like a president.
at least that's my impression.


You can't take Comey's statement in isolation without considering the state of the Flynn investigation and also Trump's after the fact confirmations that yes, it was to stop the investigation.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 31 2017 19:02 GMT
#153925
You people are just too greedy. This Russia stuff is too weak even for my taste and you know what I think about Russia ... Just wait, the orangutan is gonna do something openly criminal sooner or later.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 31 2017 19:07 GMT
#153926
I think this is a problem

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 31 2017 19:09 GMT
#153927
On June 01 2017 04:02 opisska wrote:
You people are just too greedy. This Russia stuff is too weak even for my taste and you know what I think about Russia ... Just wait, the orangutan is gonna do something openly criminal sooner or later.

I’m not here for Russia drama, I’m here for the obstruction of justice. Evidence of that is falling from the trees.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
May 31 2017 19:14 GMT
#153928
Remember, the cover-up is always worse than the crime.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
May 31 2017 19:14 GMT
#153929
On June 01 2017 04:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2017 04:02 opisska wrote:
You people are just too greedy. This Russia stuff is too weak even for my taste and you know what I think about Russia ... Just wait, the orangutan is gonna do something openly criminal sooner or later.

I’m not here for Russia drama, I’m here for the obstruction of justice. Evidence of that is falling from the trees.

I'm here for the Russia drama. There is so much abnormal behavior going on in this administration in that regard, both past and present, that I really want to see where it ends up.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43296 Posts
May 31 2017 19:19 GMT
#153930
I'm here for all the drama. Let's not forget that Flynn was amending existing Obama era plans to serve Turkey's interests while serving in office while on the payroll of the Turkish government while an undisclosed foreign agent.

Trump is basically this.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 31 2017 19:20 GMT
#153931
The Russia investigation is linked to possible investments and money traveling to god knows who. And if we learned anything from the Wire, it is that following the money sometimes leads amazing places.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-31 19:21:23
May 31 2017 19:20 GMT
#153932
I'm here for people trying to actually defend the health care and budget through lies and completely wrong misrepresentation of reality. Also for Bob Casey calling things nixonian. Fun fact. We're not getting 3 percent growth.


also according to Garry Kasparov you want to say "follow the rubles."
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7291 Posts
May 31 2017 19:26 GMT
#153933
On June 01 2017 04:20 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
I'm here for people trying to actually defend the health care and budget through lies and completely wrong misrepresentation of reality. Also for Bob Casey calling things nixonian. Fun fact. We're not getting 3 percent growth.


also according to Garry Kasparov you want to say "follow the rubles."




I dont think Healthcare would turn out any better with Pence in office. Theres an off chance hed leave it alone but id consider him a rubber stamp on any republican plan.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 31 2017 19:28 GMT
#153934
On June 01 2017 04:26 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2017 04:20 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
I'm here for people trying to actually defend the health care and budget through lies and completely wrong misrepresentation of reality. Also for Bob Casey calling things nixonian. Fun fact. We're not getting 3 percent growth.


also according to Garry Kasparov you want to say "follow the rubles."




I dont think Healthcare would turn out any better with Pence in office. Theres an off chance hed leave it alone but id consider him a rubber stamp on any republican plan.


Probably.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 31 2017 19:29 GMT
#153935
Folks,

They are trying to tell us the Covfefe tweet was intentional. The President and a small group of people knew what the tweet meant. They cannot admit any errors, not even pressing tweet in error and forgetting to delete the tweet. They somehow managed to make that tiny mistake worse.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7142 Posts
May 31 2017 19:30 GMT
#153936
I dunno why people aren't talking about the Paris accords thing more here. It's a pretty fucking big deal at least imo
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
May 31 2017 19:32 GMT
#153937
On June 01 2017 04:29 Plansix wrote:
Folks,

They are trying to tell us the Covfefe tweet was intentional. The President and a small group of people knew what the tweet meant. They cannot admit any errors, not even pressing tweet in error and forgetting to delete the tweet. They somehow managed to make that tiny mistake worse.


Wait what. Really? ROFL
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
May 31 2017 19:32 GMT
#153938
On June 01 2017 04:30 Luolis wrote:
I dunno why people aren't talking about the Paris accords thing more here. It's a pretty fucking big deal at least imo


Discussions only arise when there is disagreement.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-31 19:35:17
May 31 2017 19:33 GMT
#153939





Also the RNC is now attacking Morning Joe.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
May 31 2017 19:33 GMT
#153940
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-white-house-idUSKBN18R2XS


White House says will refer questions about Russia probes to Trump's attorney

StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
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