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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 11 2017 13:34 GMT
#146301
So Donald Trump's grandfather ran whorehouses and likely a crime ring, and his father defrauded the federal government and ruthlessly drove poor people out of his apartment buildings (which he obtained with fed govt money). Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

User was temp banned for this post.
Krikkitone
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1451 Posts
April 11 2017 14:07 GMT
#146302
On April 11 2017 22:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 13:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
It's disgusting that the US Government pretends to care about kids harmed in a supposed chemical weapons attack when they've turned Iraq into a nuclear disaster with depleted uranium shells.


It's disgusting that the US government pretends to care about kids harmed in a chemical weapons attack when the Syrians are using chemical weapons that Reagan and Rumsfeld sold to Saddam Hussein...


The US government isn't pretending to care, Trump is pretending to care (and possibly actually does in that moment).

Governments can't really be hypocritical in the same way individuals can, because "the government" is a bunch of different people with different desires/motives doing different things.

Now the policy on chemical weapons use can be "hypocritical" compared to actions taken.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 11 2017 14:17 GMT
#146303
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) has the highest approval rating of any U.S. senator in a new poll.

The Morning Consult poll showed a 75 percent approval rating for the Vermont senator. Sanders, who lost the Democratic presidential primary to Hillary Clinton last year, has remained popular. He is now a vocal critic President Donald Trump.

Fellow Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy (D) came in second on Morning Consult's rankings of popular senators at 70 percent, and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) was third at 69 percent.
Pollsters found Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is the least popular senator, with a 47 percent disapproval rating.

Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) at 43 percent and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) at 40 percent were second and third on the least-popular list.

Morning Consult surveyed 85,000 people in each state between January and March.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
April 11 2017 14:17 GMT
#146304
Real question is what would happen if someone took photos of children blasted by U.S. drones trying to kill terrorists and sent them to Trump.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43269 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-11 14:17:31
April 11 2017 14:17 GMT
#146305
The problem with Tesla, and bull markets in general, is not whether they're overvalued but whether the rest of the market care. A lot of people have lost a lot of money shorting Tesla based on its fundamentals. And they may be right about those fundamentals but in the market it doesn't matter if you're right, it matters whether people think you're right. For the vast majority of the lifespan of a bubble the rational action for an individual who knows it is a bubble is to keep investing in it, not short it.
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."
- John Maynard Keynes
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18839 Posts
April 11 2017 14:25 GMT
#146306
On April 11 2017 23:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Real question is what would happen if someone took photos of children blasted by U.S. drones trying to kill terrorists and sent them to Trump.

He would refuse to believe that the U.S. could do such a thing and label said photos fake news.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43269 Posts
April 11 2017 14:30 GMT
#146307
On April 11 2017 23:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Real question is what would happen if someone took photos of children blasted by U.S. drones trying to kill terrorists and sent them to Trump.

He would say they were fake children obviously.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 11 2017 14:31 GMT
#146308
It was a cold, misty, gray, early spring day in Albany, New York – the kind of bone-chilling, turn-up-the-heat weather that encourages residents to flee to Florida.

But 500 New Yorkers were still out on the sidewalk lobbying for healthcare reform that has long seemed like a pipe dream: government-provided universal health insurance.

“I wanna make sure my children get healthcare,” said Minerva Solla, a 66-year-old organizer with the New York State Nurses Association. “It’s a right, not a privilege.” Moments earlier she riled the crowd with call-backs: “If they don’t pass it? Vote them out!”

Americans might know the liberal dream as “Medicare for all”. If it ever passed, it could be as comprehensive as the UK’s National Health Service.

Universal healthcare not a new idea, but one with fresh energy since Republicans’ disastrous attempt to reform the American health system. In Albany, a record number of people turned out to a rally for universal healthcare in New York, several activists and one lawmaker said.

“It’s an uphill battle, and the Republicans are in control of Congress, and there’s no signal they would be willing to let this pass right now,” said Clare Fauke, spokesperson for Physicians for a National Health Program, which advocates for universal healthcare. “But we’ve been thinking in terms of the long game, and there’s never been more support for it than there is right now.”

In a universal healthcare system, New York would pay for every resident not covered by an existing federal health insurance program, like Medicare for the old or Medicaid for the poor. For-profit health insurance companies would be all but eliminated.

That would mean New Yorkers would be freed from “co-pays”, “deductibles”, and “premiums”, all insurance industry jargon for one thing: medical bills.

“We’re unanimous that this is the most logical system going forward,” said Phil DeSalvo, a 29-year-old medical resident from New York City. He and three fellow health workers traveled three hours north on their only day off to protest. Was universal healthcare gaining momentum?

“Absolutely, particularly with the collapse of the plan advanced by the Republicans,” he said. “This is the best solution going forward.”

Despite campaigning for seven years to “repeal and replace” the Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare, Republicans’ first attempt at a reform bill sank like a stone.

Trump and the Republican leadership’s concessions to both hardline conservatives and moderate Republicans made the bill a mishmash. Tax credits would have helped Americans buy private insurance, but the gutting of insurance regulations would have made policies practically meaningless. It would have left 52 million people uninsured by the end of the decade, at last estimate.

It had an abysmal 17% public approval rating, and lasted two weeks before it was pulled. It is Trump’s single largest loss to date. In the vacuum of ideas, liberals have conjured hope.

“I think fear of the Republican bill, and fear that it will come back in even worse form, is sparking support,” said Richard Gottfried, a New York City Democrat who has sponsored a universal healthcare bill since 1992.

Advocates of universal healthcare are not missing an opportunity to make a fuss. Physicians for a National Health Program held their first day of national rallies to coincide with the Congressional recess on Saturday. Protests were planned from Florida to New Hampshire, Oregon to North Carolina.

Bernie Sanders plans to introduce a bill in the US Senate to support single-payer healthcare. In the House, there is already a single-payer bill with 93 co-sponsors.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 11 2017 14:37 GMT
#146309
t_d on suicide watch:

Syria’s Government ‘Coming to an End,’ Tillerson Warns Before Russia Trip

LUCCA, Italy — Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson said on Tuesday that the reign of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria was “coming to an end” and warned that Russia was at risk of becoming irrelevant in the Middle East by continuing to support him.

Mr. Tillerson, in comments made just before he traveled to Moscow for a high-stakes summit meeting, sought to clear up the United States’ position on Syria while also declaring that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia needed to choose whether to side with Mr. Assad or the West.


After TL educating on me on Russia's stake in Syria (naval base), I can't help but wonder what Russia has to gain by letting Assad get booted. I can't imagine a situation where the US allows Russia to keep their naval base there, right? Or perhaps we do?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 11 2017 14:39 GMT
#146310
We don't even know what this Administration on Syria stands for as Trump doesn't believe that the base is back in operation. Never mind the conflicting statements from his appointees all different.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
April 11 2017 14:40 GMT
#146311
Perhaps the US shouldn't get a say in whether Syria allows Russia to have a naval base in their own sovereign country.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 11 2017 14:41 GMT
#146312
On April 11 2017 23:37 Mohdoo wrote:
t_d on suicide watch:

Syria’s Government ‘Coming to an End,’ Tillerson Warns Before Russia Trip

Show nested quote +
LUCCA, Italy — Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson said on Tuesday that the reign of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria was “coming to an end” and warned that Russia was at risk of becoming irrelevant in the Middle East by continuing to support him.

Mr. Tillerson, in comments made just before he traveled to Moscow for a high-stakes summit meeting, sought to clear up the United States’ position on Syria while also declaring that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia needed to choose whether to side with Mr. Assad or the West.


After TL educating on me on Russia's stake in Syria (naval base), I can't help but wonder what Russia has to gain by letting Assad get booted. I can't imagine a situation where the US allows Russia to keep their naval base there, right? Or perhaps we do?

sounds like normal political bluster to me. tillerson saying it doesn't mean much. it's still just a bunch of talk.

that said, russia might be willing to let assad go, so long as the rest of the regime and their naval base stays.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 11 2017 14:42 GMT
#146313
On April 11 2017 23:40 a_flayer wrote:
Perhaps the US shouldn't get a say in whether Syria allows Russia to have a naval base in their own sovereign country.


Perhaps the US ended WW2 and is largely blamed for the world's problems simply because of the fact that they are tasked with managing everyone so things like WW2 don't happen again. No world wars since the US took the wheel.

Its easy to be cynical and tell the US to piss off, but the US not pissing off is the only thing that made Europe and other areas stop being shit heads.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
April 11 2017 14:44 GMT
#146314
On April 11 2017 23:41 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 23:37 Mohdoo wrote:
t_d on suicide watch:

Syria’s Government ‘Coming to an End,’ Tillerson Warns Before Russia Trip

LUCCA, Italy — Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson said on Tuesday that the reign of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria was “coming to an end” and warned that Russia was at risk of becoming irrelevant in the Middle East by continuing to support him.

Mr. Tillerson, in comments made just before he traveled to Moscow for a high-stakes summit meeting, sought to clear up the United States’ position on Syria while also declaring that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia needed to choose whether to side with Mr. Assad or the West.


After TL educating on me on Russia's stake in Syria (naval base), I can't help but wonder what Russia has to gain by letting Assad get booted. I can't imagine a situation where the US allows Russia to keep their naval base there, right? Or perhaps we do?

sounds like normal political bluster to me. tillerson saying it doesn't mean much. it's still just a bunch of talk.

that said, russia might be willing to let assad go, so long as the rest of the regime and their naval base stays.


ftfy

i can see some sort of US-russia deal where the base stays and assad+co go.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18129 Posts
April 11 2017 14:46 GMT
#146315
On April 11 2017 21:47 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 15:28 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
On April 11 2017 15:07 hunts wrote:
On April 11 2017 12:20 xDaunt wrote:
On April 11 2017 12:15 ticklishmusic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 11 2017 11:39 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 11:35 Mohdoo wrote:
On April 11 2017 10:11 LegalLord wrote:
California-based bubble overtakes real, if troubled, car companies in Detroit in stock market valuation despite no particularly good fundamentals or financials to justify that price?

Don't get me wrong, it is impressive how long it's managed to sustain this illusion, but Tesla is a complete and utter cult stock.


They invest nearly everything they make back into the company. The financials aren't supposed to look great right now. They are doing things right, though.

Yes, taking "the Amazon excuse" to anyone noticing a company being financially unfeasible is an excellent way to run a money laundering venture. It doesn't make the company feasible though.

Though if Musk has proven anything, there are a lot of people who are a combination of well-meaning and gullible, so he continues to have an income.


take a look at this analyst note, it's fucking hilarious

[image loading]

Animal Spirits! Fuck yeah!

Similarly, the current stock market makes no sense to me. Everything is retardedly overbought and overvalued, but no one seems to care. I'll let my retirement funds do whatever they're going to do, but I hate the idea of sinking money into stocks right now.


Yup, we should be in the ending phase of the bull market. Everyone is buying overpriced stocks that can't perform up to what they're priced at, and then it all goes down, at least to some degree.

edit: Read your real estate comment. Ironically at least where I live, real estate prices have been going up so much that we're also going to have a real estate crash in the relatively near future too.


real estate is doing okay I think if you look at percentage and mortgage and stuff. Remember seeing something about auto loans being the next thing that's likely to collapse. but yeah at some point it's going to fall. Market's tend to react late and suddenly. If it looks like tax reform isn't happening or the infrastructure bill is dead then it might start falling.

regarding rate hikes I think their designed to 1) slow down growth so it doesn't overshoot too far (this could be wrong) 2) give you wiggle room when something bad happens. if the economy tanks and your interest rates are super low you can only pull a Japan and go reverse interest. So you raise it when the economies doing well. I'm not an economist but every economist I've seen hasn't had a problem with rate hikes.

Yeah, the auto loan landscape is a giant shit show. They're basically doing the exact same thing that the housing industry was doing a decade ago.

Well, they can't really. I'm not sure how it works, but the whole idea of a subprime mortgage is that while you won't be able to pay it back, you still own the house which is worth the value of your mortgage, so the bank "doesn't lose anything" because worst-case scenario, they sell the house and recover the money (until the housing market stagnated, at which point they were fucked).

However, with car loans they can't do that. The car cannot be collateral against the loan: either the bank does their homework, or they have to write off the loan, as there is no way to sell a used car to recover the costs. Unless people have used their home as collateral to get a loan to buy a car, in which case this is heading straight for the shitter again. Can't wait for people to get put out of their homes because they couldn't repay their carloans...
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
April 11 2017 14:46 GMT
#146316
If Trump intends to remove Assad, he had better appeal to the public and Congress to get a firm AUMF against Syria. I think he loses that debate.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43269 Posts
April 11 2017 14:47 GMT
#146317
On April 11 2017 23:42 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 23:40 a_flayer wrote:
Perhaps the US shouldn't get a say in whether Syria allows Russia to have a naval base in their own sovereign country.


Perhaps the US ended WW2 and is largely blamed for the world's problems simply because of the fact that they are tasked with managing everyone so things like WW2 don't happen again. No world wars since the US took the wheel.

Its easy to be cynical and tell the US to piss off, but the US not pissing off is the only thing that made Europe and other areas stop being shit heads.

The US made the systematic dismantling of the old world order a condition of their participation in World War II and replaced the institutions that kept it all running with "free trade", a free for all that opened the world to economic exploitation. It might have actually worked had there not actually been two superpowers, both with an express policy of fucking with any place the other one was doing well.

You can appreciate the good aspects of US hegemony (no world wars) without also acknowledging that they're a big part of why the Middle East and Africa look the way they do.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 11 2017 14:49 GMT
#146318
The time for negotiation on the Assad matter is over. Obama failed to do it and Trump seems more interested in trying to force the issue than negotiating. The opportunity to resolve this matter with Assad leaving has long since disappeared.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18129 Posts
April 11 2017 14:49 GMT
#146319
On April 11 2017 23:17 KwarK wrote:
The problem with Tesla, and bull markets in general, is not whether they're overvalued but whether the rest of the market care. A lot of people have lost a lot of money shorting Tesla based on its fundamentals. And they may be right about those fundamentals but in the market it doesn't matter if you're right, it matters whether people think you're right. For the vast majority of the lifespan of a bubble the rational action for an individual who knows it is a bubble is to keep investing in it, not short it.
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."
- John Maynard Keynes

The Big Short actually showed that in a rather compelling way. Those guys had done their homework, figured out the bubble and then had to maintain the faith of their investors for years after that with no ROI and everybody telling them they were nuts.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35162 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-11 14:52:31
April 11 2017 14:50 GMT
#146320
On April 11 2017 23:46 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 21:47 Gahlo wrote:
On April 11 2017 15:28 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
On April 11 2017 15:07 hunts wrote:
On April 11 2017 12:20 xDaunt wrote:
On April 11 2017 12:15 ticklishmusic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 11 2017 11:39 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2017 11:35 Mohdoo wrote:
On April 11 2017 10:11 LegalLord wrote:
California-based bubble overtakes real, if troubled, car companies in Detroit in stock market valuation despite no particularly good fundamentals or financials to justify that price?

Don't get me wrong, it is impressive how long it's managed to sustain this illusion, but Tesla is a complete and utter cult stock.


They invest nearly everything they make back into the company. The financials aren't supposed to look great right now. They are doing things right, though.

Yes, taking "the Amazon excuse" to anyone noticing a company being financially unfeasible is an excellent way to run a money laundering venture. It doesn't make the company feasible though.

Though if Musk has proven anything, there are a lot of people who are a combination of well-meaning and gullible, so he continues to have an income.


take a look at this analyst note, it's fucking hilarious

[image loading]

Animal Spirits! Fuck yeah!

Similarly, the current stock market makes no sense to me. Everything is retardedly overbought and overvalued, but no one seems to care. I'll let my retirement funds do whatever they're going to do, but I hate the idea of sinking money into stocks right now.


Yup, we should be in the ending phase of the bull market. Everyone is buying overpriced stocks that can't perform up to what they're priced at, and then it all goes down, at least to some degree.

edit: Read your real estate comment. Ironically at least where I live, real estate prices have been going up so much that we're also going to have a real estate crash in the relatively near future too.


real estate is doing okay I think if you look at percentage and mortgage and stuff. Remember seeing something about auto loans being the next thing that's likely to collapse. but yeah at some point it's going to fall. Market's tend to react late and suddenly. If it looks like tax reform isn't happening or the infrastructure bill is dead then it might start falling.

regarding rate hikes I think their designed to 1) slow down growth so it doesn't overshoot too far (this could be wrong) 2) give you wiggle room when something bad happens. if the economy tanks and your interest rates are super low you can only pull a Japan and go reverse interest. So you raise it when the economies doing well. I'm not an economist but every economist I've seen hasn't had a problem with rate hikes.

Yeah, the auto loan landscape is a giant shit show. They're basically doing the exact same thing that the housing industry was doing a decade ago.

Well, they can't really. I'm not sure how it works, but the whole idea of a subprime mortgage is that while you won't be able to pay it back, you still own the house which is worth the value of your mortgage, so the bank "doesn't lose anything" because worst-case scenario, they sell the house and recover the money (until the housing market stagnated, at which point they were fucked).

However, with car loans they can't do that. The car cannot be collateral against the loan: either the bank does their homework, or they have to write off the loan, as there is no way to sell a used car to recover the costs. Unless people have used their home as collateral to get a loan to buy a car, in which case this is heading straight for the shitter again. Can't wait for people to get put out of their homes because they couldn't repay their carloans...

Thing is that the car has a lot of other costs tied to it. Gas, maintenance, depending where you live, insurance, to the point where people need to get rid of the car so it stops burning them from both ends. So the dealer gets the car back in addition to whatever debt is owed, then they sell the car again.
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