EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7119
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On March 15 2017 10:01 Nyxisto wrote: that statement reads as if its literally written by Trump No, it's far too eloquent. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
"It is totally illegal" - "dishonest media". It really isn't that much more eloquent. That being said, i actually agree partially with it. This is a publicity stunt by someone who seems very desperate. They're a decade old. Who gives a shit. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
The quest to oust Trump through any means possible while also garnering ratings continues. Not a fan, but I guess it's hard to live with him being your country's president day after day. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28712 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
edit: Yeah so far this is just seems like a stupid ploy, and Maddow may have even fell into a PR trap. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
The journalist who got the tax return, David Cay Johnston has had stuff leaked to him from Trump himself before. He has covered Trump for decades. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
In short she fell into a PR trap. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
"he made money and paid taxes on it" "he wants to change the taxes to pay less taxes on his money. no shit. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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KwarK
United States43271 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 15 2017 02:16 Nebuchad wrote: Well, let's say that the premise is right. Let's say that America is that fucked up and loves far right extremism just that much. We still want to win next time, right? So logically we should move our discourse even more to the right of where it was now, since we lost because America is fucked up, so we should become a little more fucked up ourselves to appeal to it. Very schematically, that's what the democratic party has been doing for a while now, and it has lost what, 1000 seats, doing it? The results don't seem to corroborate the premise, so perhaps the premise is wrong. On March 15 2017 02:36 Nebuchad wrote: You watch the republican party become more and more extreme. Since it's a two party system, you can become a little more right wing and garner support among the right wing people who used to vote republican and think it's too extreme now. You don't go "as fucked up as them", cause there would be no point to do that, they're already doing it, you're not going to win anything with that strategy. Instead you just become a little more right wing and because there's no one else in a two party system, there is no drawback. That has been the strategy. It didn't work. I'd rather we give up on this strategy before we give up on America. Cause if we give up on America, better double down on that strategy as that's what's most likely to work if the premise that "America is just that fucked up" is right. This is simply not true, actually. The increase of party polarization in the US over the last few decades has been extensively documented by political scientists; Democrats in Congress have overall become more liberal, and Republicans have overall become more conservative (to a greater extent than Democrats have become more liberal). Methods of measurement of course vary, but you can for example look at the work of researchers like Adam Bonica, Poole and Rosenthal with their DW-NOMINATE scores, or alternatively look at ADA voting records, etc. (if you're interested in learning more about party polarization and the factors behind it, I recommend Sean Theriault's Party polarization in Congress (2006), Poole and Rosenthal's Ideology and Congress (2007), or Voorheis et al.'s very interesting recent article "Unequal Incomes, Ideology and Gridlock: How Rising Inequality Increases Political Polarization" (2015) -- I can send it to you if you don't have access to it). Of course, you can always find anecdotal examples to suggest the opposite, such as the ACA being essentially the conservatives' answer to the reform the Clintons championed in the 1990s, yet this misses the point -- the Clinton plan didn't pass, and looking at congressional votes over a long period of time paints a much clearer picture. With regards to the 2016 election, Clinton scored to the left of Obama as a senator, she campaigned on a progressive policy platform, and the Democratic party platform that was adopted at the convention was the most progressive ever. Of course, she still wasn't progressive enough for some in the US population, but in addition to the structural and other factors which impacted her candidacy (including her own campaign's strategic mistakes) -- many of which would have played a role regardless of who was the Democratic nominee --, what hurt her the most wasn't a lack of progressivism (the opposite could be argued) but rather the negative perceptions about her character and honesty (notably the result of years/decades of GOP smears, media negativity and focus on the e-mail story, character attacks from the Sanders camp, and her own reluctance to engage with the media and lack of charisma for certain crowds). To sum up, the Democrats in Congress have overall been moving towards the left, and there is little to suggest that a candidate to the left of Clinton would have had a better shot at winning the election, all other things being equal. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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