• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:07
CEST 15:07
KST 22:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War625.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
ChatGPT cheats at StarSkirmish SCAI tournament BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War TL Sidebar missing streams [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8049 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5740

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5738 5739 5740 5741 5742 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46512 Posts
October 23 2016 00:04 GMT
#114781
On October 23 2016 06:43 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 05:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 23 2016 05:37 Yoav wrote:
On October 23 2016 02:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Heck, even in 2016, one of our two major political parties consistently makes God-related arguments to try and hinder social progress.


And the other major political party consistently makes God-related arguments to try to help social progress... just less so the white people in that party.


You really think pro-choice and gay marriage proponents invoke God as much as pro-life and traditional marriage advocates?


Not all of social progress is summed up in those two issues.


I agree with you there, but what are some examples of typical social progressives invoking God as their argument?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
nothingmuch
Profile Joined March 2015
448 Posts
October 23 2016 00:11 GMT
#114782
On October 23 2016 08:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On that topic here's Oprah "You don't have to like Clinton to vote for her".Desperation much?

http://theweek.com/speedreads/656889/oprah-reminds-people-dont-have-like-clinton-vote-not-coming-over-house


There's a chance that a narcissistic egomaniac with the self restraint of a rabid terrier gets access to the world biggest nuclear arsenal which he already pondered why these weapons are not used. If ever there was a time for desperation this is it.

Also it seems that the "biased, election rigging" liberal media has done some splendid work all over the world.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 23 2016 00:27 GMT
#114783
On October 23 2016 08:52 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 08:43 Barrin wrote:
Maybe this has already been posted, but on the note of not needing to like candidates to vote for them:



I've voted third party last two elections, but both Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are just too damn clueless, as John Oliver displays above. #lesserof4evils /sigh

It is just the fourth time it is posted. Or 5th?


On October 18 2016 06:20 IgnE wrote:
automatic ban for posting the same video within 1000 pages of each other


Let's make it happen.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 02:19:58
October 23 2016 02:19 GMT
#114784
[An award-winning porn star accused a creepy Donald Trump of offering $10,000 and the use of his private jet if she agreed to spend the night with him.

Jessica Drake said the GOP presidential hopeful’s unwanted sexual come-ons occurred 10 years ago during a golf tournament in Lake Tahoe, Calif.

When she rebuffed Trump’s sexual overtures, Drake told a news conference Saturday, he asked her two questions: “What do you want? How much?”
“I received another call from Donald or a male calling on his behalf offering me $10,000,” she said. “I declined once again, and once more gave as an excuse that I had to return to Los Angeles for work.


I was then told Mr. Trump would allow me the use of his private jet to take me home if I accepted his invitation.”

Her allegation follows the claims of 11 other women who accused Trump of groping them. The boorish billionaire vowed Saturday to sue them all once the presidential race is done.

The most recent woman to charge Trump was wellness expert Karena Virginia, who accused him of brazenly touching her breast outside the U.S. Open in 1998.

“Don’t you know who I am?” he asked while slipping away.

Drake said Trump started hitting on her as soon as they met — although he was married at the time to third wife Melania.

“His words and actions are a huge testament to his character — that of uncontrollable misogyny, entitlement and being a sexual assault apologist,” said Drake.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/porn-star-jessica-drake-claims-donald-trump-offered-10g-sex-article-1.2841186
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
October 23 2016 02:23 GMT
#114785
I could live with won't wear a suit and broke as shit.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
October 23 2016 02:24 GMT
#114786
On October 23 2016 07:36 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 07:25 Adreme wrote:
On October 23 2016 07:06 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 23 2016 06:37 plasmidghost wrote:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/
Three polls released today have Trump ahead, on average, by 2/3 of a percent, compared to polls 1-2 weeks ago that had Clinton as far as 14 points ahead. I'm quite concerned to say the least


Latimes poll is constructed in such a way that it will have a systematic bias since they sample one population and re-poll them continuously. That's the least meaningful poll to look at raw numbers-wise, but should be examined trend-wise (and it's basically trending Clinton lately).

It's fascinating that IBD/TPP is showing such a close race, though, because that's almost incompatible with the batch of state polls released today.


Just as important as polling(possibly moreso) is trends on the early voting in the key states and except for Iowa and Ohio all of those are looking really good for the Clinton campaign (like blowout territory good)



Where are you seeing these blowout numbers?


CNN did a great piece where they were showing how each party was doing with early voting and in states exceptfor the two I listed Democrats had better turnout numbers relative to Republicans (using 2012 as a baseline which remember the Democrat won). Also remember in addition to this Trump is polling worse among Republicanswer than Romney so he won't get as much of the share as he did and you see the recipe for a blowout.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4456 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 02:28:24
October 23 2016 02:27 GMT
#114787
On October 23 2016 08:52 BallinWitStalin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 08:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On that topic here's Oprah "You don't have to like Clinton to vote for her".Desperation much?

http://theweek.com/speedreads/656889/oprah-reminds-people-dont-have-like-clinton-vote-not-coming-over-house


So you trust the 538 assessment of +2 for Trump bias in the LA times poll, yet you distrust the assessment that Clinton is far more likely to win the election than Trump according to an aggregation of all the polls (i.e. Trump followers should be the ones experiencing some desperation, not Clinton voters)?

That's some solid cognitive dissonance right there.

Distrust? What I've been saying is i'm not seeing the enthusiasm for Clinton that was seen with Obama.Don't expect high democrat turnout on polling day.

Last Brexit poll the day before the vote had remain up ten 55-45, leave won by two.Why? Low voter turnout among youth, the ones most heavily favouring remain!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
JW_DTLA
Profile Joined December 2015
242 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 02:40:04
October 23 2016 02:39 GMT
#114788
On October 23 2016 11:19 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
[An award-winning porn star accused a creepy Donald Trump of offering $10,000 and the use of his private jet if she agreed to spend the night with him.

Jessica Drake said the GOP presidential hopeful’s unwanted sexual come-ons occurred 10 years ago during a golf tournament in Lake Tahoe, Calif.

When she rebuffed Trump’s sexual overtures, Drake told a news conference Saturday, he asked her two questions: “What do you want? How much?”
“I received another call from Donald or a male calling on his behalf offering me $10,000,” she said. “I declined once again, and once more gave as an excuse that I had to return to Los Angeles for work.


I was then told Mr. Trump would allow me the use of his private jet to take me home if I accepted his invitation.”

Her allegation follows the claims of 11 other women who accused Trump of groping them. The boorish billionaire vowed Saturday to sue them all once the presidential race is done.

The most recent woman to charge Trump was wellness expert Karena Virginia, who accused him of brazenly touching her breast outside the U.S. Open in 1998.

“Don’t you know who I am?” he asked while slipping away.

Drake said Trump started hitting on her as soon as they met — although he was married at the time to third wife Melania.

“His words and actions are a huge testament to his character — that of uncontrollable misogyny, entitlement and being a sexual assault apologist,” said Drake.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/porn-star-jessica-drake-claims-donald-trump-offered-10g-sex-article-1.2841186


Is it just me or does DJT never actually bang these chicks? He just goes for non-consensual kissing and then they get creeped out and escape. I guess there must be a few where his assault techniques result in the women relenting and just waiting until he finishes. But all of these accusers seem to escape before he can get his dick out.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 02:47:28
October 23 2016 02:44 GMT
#114789
On October 23 2016 11:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 08:52 BallinWitStalin wrote:
On October 23 2016 08:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On that topic here's Oprah "You don't have to like Clinton to vote for her".Desperation much?

http://theweek.com/speedreads/656889/oprah-reminds-people-dont-have-like-clinton-vote-not-coming-over-house


So you trust the 538 assessment of +2 for Trump bias in the LA times poll, yet you distrust the assessment that Clinton is far more likely to win the election than Trump according to an aggregation of all the polls (i.e. Trump followers should be the ones experiencing some desperation, not Clinton voters)?

That's some solid cognitive dissonance right there.

Distrust? What I've been saying is i'm not seeing the enthusiasm for Clinton that was seen with Obama.Don't expect high democrat turnout on polling day.

Last Brexit poll the day before the vote had remain up ten 55-45, leave won by two.Why? Low voter turnout among youth, the ones most heavily favouring remain!


Enthusiasm for a candidate doesn't necessarily translate to enthusiasm for voting. 95% of the Democrat GOTV is focused on making people 1) hate Trump and 2) vote because the Obamas and Biden want them to. Nothing to do with Clinton.

If opinion leaders, including Sanders, tell Democratic constituents often enough that this is literally an election for the future of the United States, and possibly the most important in their lifetime, they will get people to vote. Even for a rock.

And "enthusiasm" did a terrible job of winning Sanders the Democratic primary.

Meanwhile, Trump is telling his supporters their votes don't even matter.
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
October 23 2016 02:45 GMT
#114790
On October 23 2016 11:19 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
[An award-winning porn star accused a creepy Donald Trump of offering $10,000 and the use of his private jet if she agreed to spend the night with him.

Jessica Drake said the GOP presidential hopeful’s unwanted sexual come-ons occurred 10 years ago during a golf tournament in Lake Tahoe, Calif.

When she rebuffed Trump’s sexual overtures, Drake told a news conference Saturday, he asked her two questions: “What do you want? How much?”
“I received another call from Donald or a male calling on his behalf offering me $10,000,” she said. “I declined once again, and once more gave as an excuse that I had to return to Los Angeles for work.


I was then told Mr. Trump would allow me the use of his private jet to take me home if I accepted his invitation.”

Her allegation follows the claims of 11 other women who accused Trump of groping them. The boorish billionaire vowed Saturday to sue them all once the presidential race is done.

The most recent woman to charge Trump was wellness expert Karena Virginia, who accused him of brazenly touching her breast outside the U.S. Open in 1998.

“Don’t you know who I am?” he asked while slipping away.

Drake said Trump started hitting on her as soon as they met — although he was married at the time to third wife Melania.

“His words and actions are a huge testament to his character — that of uncontrollable misogyny, entitlement and being a sexual assault apologist,” said Drake.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/porn-star-jessica-drake-claims-donald-trump-offered-10g-sex-article-1.2841186


A woman paid to have sex for a living was offered money for sex and she's offended. I get he's old and she wouldn't want that, but it's hardly news worthy compared to the other things he's done.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 03:14:42
October 23 2016 02:50 GMT
#114791
Congressional term limits seems a bad idea to me. It tries to fix the effect without ever dealing with the cause: why is it that congressional and senatorial elections are largely uncompetitive. Why is it that you cannot throw the bums out and have regional third parties sweeping in like we have up here. In a competitive electoral system, you absolutely don't want a term limit on your old timers- they lasted for so long for a reason and you want their experience- particularly if one party has been out of power for so long, having a bunch of old timers to train and mentor the newbs seems like an invaluable asset.

I would certainly look at reforming either how electoral boundaries are drawn or else the electoral systems itself (alternatives to FPTP) long before I would consider term limits.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 03:02:27
October 23 2016 02:59 GMT
#114792
On October 23 2016 11:50 Falling wrote:
Congressional term limits seems a bad idea to me. It fixes with the effect without ever dealing with the cause: why is it that congressional and senatorial elections are largely uncompetitive. Why is it that you cannot throw the bums out and have regional third parties sweeping in like we have up here. In a competitive electoral system, you absolutely don't want a term limit on your old timers- they lasted for so long for a reason and you want their experience- particularly if one party has been out of power for so long, having a bunch of old timers to train and mentor the newbs seems like an invaluable asset.

I would certainly look at reforming either how electoral boundaries are drawn or else the electoral systems itself (alternatives to FPTP) long before I would consider term limits.


It is my hope that Trump's disdain for the GOP and now also the democrats, along with a possible follow-up TrumpTV to continue that rhetoric, allows third party candidates to rise in various states during whenever their next elections are, contesting the two other parties at a state level and perhaps encouraging some reform in the various processes that make up the US government (election, lobbying, whatever).
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 23 2016 03:00 GMT
#114793
I'd like a better headhunting system; right now the elections are too much about who chooses to run; and puts in a lot of legwork of their own.
In most job hiring processes, you get a lot more applicants to choose from; and in some cases you go out recruiting looking for good prospects. I often get the feeling that we could do a lot better if we just went out recruiting.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 23 2016 03:06 GMT
#114794


They were off by one year. I await my hover board.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9246 Posts
October 23 2016 03:20 GMT
#114795
On October 23 2016 11:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 08:52 BallinWitStalin wrote:
On October 23 2016 08:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On that topic here's Oprah "You don't have to like Clinton to vote for her".Desperation much?

http://theweek.com/speedreads/656889/oprah-reminds-people-dont-have-like-clinton-vote-not-coming-over-house


So you trust the 538 assessment of +2 for Trump bias in the LA times poll, yet you distrust the assessment that Clinton is far more likely to win the election than Trump according to an aggregation of all the polls (i.e. Trump followers should be the ones experiencing some desperation, not Clinton voters)?

That's some solid cognitive dissonance right there.

Distrust? What I've been saying is i'm not seeing the enthusiasm for Clinton that was seen with Obama.Don't expect high democrat turnout on polling day.

Last Brexit poll the day before the vote had remain up ten 55-45, leave won by two.Why? Low voter turnout among youth, the ones most heavily favouring remain!

This nonsense again

-youth voter turnout for brexit wasn't particularly low, that was a myth propagated by Sky News, there is 0 data to support it
-remain was ahead by only 2 points on aggregate the day before the vote, Clinton is currently ahead by 6 points on aggregate
-polling is more reliable for cyclical elections than for one-off referendums
-there is lower enthusiasm (i.e. percentage of voters saying they 'strongly' support their candidate) among Trump voters than Clinton's according to the latest Fox poll, I don't know of others that measure this

Every single factor in that argument is either wrong or unsubstantiated, but even if it weren't and your dream scenario of a brexit repeat happened, aggregators being wrong by 4 points is currently not enough to close the gap
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
October 23 2016 03:36 GMT
#114796
On October 23 2016 12:06 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/maxtemkin/status/790024608233684992

They were off by one year. I await my hover board.


The self lacing Nike Air Mags were just auctioned off this month as well.
LiquidDota Staff
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 23 2016 03:47 GMT
#114797
On October 23 2016 11:50 Falling wrote:
Congressional term limits seems a bad idea to me. It tries to fix the effect without ever dealing with the cause: why is it that congressional and senatorial elections are largely uncompetitive. Why is it that you cannot throw the bums out and have regional third parties sweeping in like we have up here. In a competitive electoral system, you absolutely don't want a term limit on your old timers- they lasted for so long for a reason and you want their experience- particularly if one party has been out of power for so long, having a bunch of old timers to train and mentor the newbs seems like an invaluable asset.

I would certainly look at reforming either how electoral boundaries are drawn or else the electoral systems itself (alternatives to FPTP) long before I would consider term limits.

The polite term is gerrymandering. The US House of Representatives has been in Republican control despite the majority of votes going to Democratic candidates for over a decade.

The lines are drawn to make sure that doesn't happen. It's pretty sick.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6572 Posts
October 23 2016 04:06 GMT
#114798
On October 23 2016 12:47 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2016 11:50 Falling wrote:
Congressional term limits seems a bad idea to me. It tries to fix the effect without ever dealing with the cause: why is it that congressional and senatorial elections are largely uncompetitive. Why is it that you cannot throw the bums out and have regional third parties sweeping in like we have up here. In a competitive electoral system, you absolutely don't want a term limit on your old timers- they lasted for so long for a reason and you want their experience- particularly if one party has been out of power for so long, having a bunch of old timers to train and mentor the newbs seems like an invaluable asset.

I would certainly look at reforming either how electoral boundaries are drawn or else the electoral systems itself (alternatives to FPTP) long before I would consider term limits.

The polite term is gerrymandering. The US House of Representatives has been in Republican control despite the majority of votes going to Democratic candidates for over a decade.

The lines are drawn to make sure that doesn't happen. It's pretty sick.

The only House elections in the last decade when Democratic candidates got a higher nationwide popular vote total but Republicans won the majority of seats was 2012. Before that was 1996 when the margin was 43,447,962 to 43,507,586.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 23 2016 04:52 GMT
#114799
On October 23 2016 11:50 Falling wrote:
Congressional term limits seems a bad idea to me. It tries to fix the effect without ever dealing with the cause: why is it that congressional and senatorial elections are largely uncompetitive. Why is it that you cannot throw the bums out and have regional third parties sweeping in like we have up here. In a competitive electoral system, you absolutely don't want a term limit on your old timers- they lasted for so long for a reason and you want their experience- particularly if one party has been out of power for so long, having a bunch of old timers to train and mentor the newbs seems like an invaluable asset.

I would certainly look at reforming either how electoral boundaries are drawn or else the electoral systems itself (alternatives to FPTP) long before I would consider term limits.


A lot of your argument rests on "they lasted so long for a reason".

The thing is, it's pretty well-documented that incumbents tend to win. They just do, regardless of how effective they are in Congress. It's a familiarity bias.

I don't see what's so valuable about a long-term Congressman/woman that makes it a bad idea to have term limits. There are so many negatives that are the result of a lack of term limits that I find it hard to argue against them.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-23 05:47:26
October 23 2016 05:45 GMT
#114800
Lord Tolkien wrote a lengthy post about the benefits of long-term congresspeople just a few days ago in this thread. Surprised nobody has brought it up again, as it was a pretty thorough treatment.

On October 19 2016 08:57 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2016 08:15 Gorsameth wrote:
On October 19 2016 08:06 farvacola wrote:
Term limits in Michigan have practically guaranteed that the legislature is full of people who have no idea how to govern.

The idea is that you get less people who will say whatever they can to get re-elected regardless of the good of the people and instead you get those who actually want to change something for the better.
The key is to make sure there are government servants around them who actually know wtf their doing.

Since we're going to have a discussion about it, (Congressional) term limits are bad for what you think they'll do. The argument for term limits is the same wide-eyed idealistic notions behind the ban on "pork barrel" spending or government transparency.

1) The notion that politicians not caring about re-election is good is somewhat concerning, since you're asking to put politicians out of public accountability. This actually hurts your notion of politicians seeking re-election regardless of the good of the people, since accountability is one way to keep politicians aware of the good of the people.

2) What's more, politicians who serve long term aren't usually doing it out of personal gain. If you cared about self-enrichment, you'd serve a few short terms, make a great deal of noise/cultivate name recognition, and then hop into the private sector and reap much higher salaries/perks than you ever would working in public service.

3) You're idealizing freshmen politicians and legislators as some miraculous cure-all to cut down on politicians seeking re-election, but that's ridiculous. Politicians are still going to seek re-election, they're still just as likely to ignore the good of the people (actually more), by seeking other offices.

3) This puts power in the hands of unelected officials: the bureaucracy, consultants, and lobbying groups in politics, not necessarily just on government staffers. While certainly, the aforementioned groups invest in cultivating long-term relationships with legislators, that's because the power dynamic shifts in favor of legislators in those relationships. The power imbalance between lobbyists and freshmen Congressmen is lopsided as the latter has little connections or policy experience or familiarity with political structures. Congress would thus have significantly less clout and ability to determine independent policies. And it's not as if freshmen legislators will have an easier time of it: the nature of politics makes it extremely difficult for new politicians to start gaining traction.

4) You're tilting the legislative body away from policy makers and towards ideologues; statistically, policy-minded/wonkish legislators are less likely to pass on re-election than ones there to champion one issue or some ideological platform, so you're in essence cutting down on Congressmen who know how to compromise and make policy for Congressmen who will grandstand in order to garner electoral votes. Which, I suppose is great if you like gridlock, but for effective governance it's a terrible idea. "Policy focused" legislators tend to have longer terms than more "ideologically-minded" legislators, so less of the former and more of the latter.

5) You're just cutting down on effective governance. Congressional politics have always relied on a seniority system to organize and manage the constant influx of proposals and bills across a myriad of topics. Remove seniority from the equation and you cut down on the ability of parties and government to function. See: the Tea Party (are the most vocal advocates of term limits). Freshmen Congressmen there for ideological reasons are perfectly happy to defy party and government structures in order to generate publicity back home in order to get re-elected, and is indeed how you get noticed as a fresh-faced congressmen, now that there's a ban on pork.


But I stand to benefit if you pass them so...go ahead.


Also follow up post to LL tomorrow.

Moderator
Prev 1 5738 5739 5740 5741 5742 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 53m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 601
Railgan 59
MindelVK 28
Codebar 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 68375
Calm 10808
Rain 2418
Bisu 2226
FanTaSy 800
Stork 671
Rush 506
soO 481
Soma 247
Snow 218
[ Show more ]
firebathero 213
Last 177
Light 109
Mind 95
hero 88
Pusan 86
Sharp 56
Free 42
ToSsGirL 41
Trap 39
Bale 36
Mong 31
Hm[arnc] 29
Aegong 22
zelot 19
Sexy 16
HiyA 15
yabsab 15
Noble 14
Sacsri 12
Shine 12
IntoTheRainbow 9
scan(afreeca) 7
Rock 5
Terrorterran 5
Icarus 4
Dota 2
Gorgc8962
Dendi825
Counter-Strike
fl0m2871
byalli1101
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King94
Other Games
gofns36704
singsing2300
B2W.Neo635
Liquid`RaSZi338
Pyrionflax246
Beastyqt135
Hui .113
Trikslyr45
Chillindude18
Happy8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV223
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 104
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP39
• Response 10
• Dystopia_ 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV452
League of Legends
• Jankos3116
• Nemesis2920
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1238
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
1h 53m
BSL Open Qualifier
5h 53m
BSL Open Qualifier
5h 53m
OSC
9h 53m
Replay Cast
9h 53m
OSC
22h 53m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 21h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.