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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that, was there really nothing better to argue about?
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On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about?
We're discussing politics in a TL thread. Do you really think we have better things to do?
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On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about?
policy discussion are boring. we could've discussed the Hillary college reforms; but that was deemed uninteresting.
Real policy work isn't fun to talk about, it's long, incredibly tedious and detailed.
If people want to discuss actual policy we could, but it seems to get little traction.
and reasonable people come to conclusions fast, so most 10+ page discussions involve unreasonable people.
just like how few people watch cspan. As a cspan watcher, I claim superiority! :D
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United States43753 Posts
On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about?
It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context.
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On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context.
How did it even get to that? I really don't want to sift through 10 pages of this shit to actually follow the discussion.
I mostly just saw xDaunt's original post, kind of didn't think anything of it, and left. Come back to 10+ pages about it.
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On September 23 2016 08:40 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 08:28 Slaughter wrote:On September 23 2016 08:26 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 08:21 Slaughter wrote:On September 23 2016 07:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 07:34 Barrin wrote:On September 23 2016 07:32 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 07:21 Barrin wrote:On September 23 2016 07:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
Oh I have. ... So you do see how someone might think you're racist when you use it to describe black people, seeing as how that's how it's been used pretty much every time they've seen it in that context in the past? Just trying to clarify communication. I understand. This entire debate sparked over posters commenting that the black people in the video were acting like animals/vermin/thugs. I understand why some people might think that sounds racist. It's not exactly something I fault them for or consider irrational. What I consider irrational is not considering or accepting the possibility that it wasn't racially motivated. Even arguing that it had to be racially motivated because the words were being used against black people. I considered this irrational. I mocked how they were being picky-and-choosy with the insults they cared about 'going too far' as dehumanizing. I focused on the obviously charitable position that any rational person ought to consider. These violent criminals were being called animals/vermin/thugs because they were acting like animals/vermin/thugs, not because they were black, which is what multiple posters seemed to be incapable of grasping. That is when I decided to say fuck it and called them monkeys, and specifically stated I am calling them monkeys because they were acting like monkeys and it had nothing to do with their race or skin color. As you can tell, this confused some of the PC posters in this thread who irrationally rejected the idea that such an insult could be used (against a black person) without being racially motivated. I consider this highly irrational. GH actually picked up on the point I was making extremely early on in the debate, and noted that it's possible for it to not be racist if 'monkey' was being used as a sort of synonym for 'stupid'. The thing is, everyone using these phrases made explicit multiple times that they were insulting these people because of their behavior, not because of their skin color. I even noted how I've probably called more white people 'fucking monkeys' to myself when i considered them to be behaving like animals. I would think the discussion would have immediately turned to the historical context discussion that we are at now if the posters were more intelligent, but rather it turned into several posters arguing that "no you're only doing it because they're fucking black you racist". So you're telling me why I'm calling someone stupid is because they are black after I've literally told you I am calling them stupid because they behaved stupid. That is how I saw the past 10 pages going down. I'm just saying that maybe you can avoid such confusion by using different terminology. I'd prefer we didn't have this socially taboo list of names you aren't allowed to call this group or that group. How about we as a society focus on progressing past these things that hold us back from culturally moving past this and focus on more productive things? Take away the power from these words and they lose meaning. It's literally Lord Voldemort vs 'he-who-must-not-be-named' but instead of one word we've got fucking dozens we're trying to censor. Some of them I understand, others like 'vermin' or 'thug' or 'monkey' make no fucking sense. It comes down to the idea that just because things are a certain way doesn't mean they have to stay that way. Whatever though. I will not call black people, or white people, or asian people, or anyone a monkey in this thread again (even if they're acting literally like violent animals).What other words should we censure as insults? Vermin? Thugs? Deplorables? Cucks? SJWS's? Alt-right? Hillbillys? Shills? Trumpets? Where do you want to draw the line. It's just ridiculous to me but whatever Your not being censored. People critiquing you for using terms is not censoring. Not like you are banned now are you? It's not state-sponsored censorship sure, but it's trying to control and suppress speech by banning specific words at an absurd level that could properly described as censorship. "You can no longer call a black person a vermin. You can call them a stupid fucking retard, but if you call them a vermin that goes too far because of racism now apparently."Seriously? Again, no one is stopping you from using it. People calling you out on it doesn't stop you. This is turning into a semantics debate over the nature of 'censorship'. People were calling these acts of racism. I'm pretty sure that equates to calling for 'stopping me' because I believe racism is a violation of the rules here (obviously, as it should be - and someone who is actually promoting racial hatred ought to be censored). I don't think I was racist because I don't think calling a criminal a criminal is racist. I don't think I did anything wrong. This was what was being contested and is very much a matter of censorship. Yea don't try to pretend thats what the argument was about.
I don't think calling someone acting like a thug a thug is racist.
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On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context.
I argued that I could use it without using it in a racial context, something many posters here could not fathom.
Apparently if you call someone a 'monkey' it has to be racial. Unless they're white. I can still call white people monkeys right?
Where do hispanics and asians fit in all this?
It reaches a point where I doubt whether or not I can even talk about the actual animal monkeys without offending someone.
edit - Also, I wasn't even the first person who brought up monkeys. Someone else mentioned xDaunt might as well have called them 'monkeys' because he called them vermin and clearly you can't call black people names nowadays or you're a racist.
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United States43753 Posts
On September 23 2016 08:45 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context. How did it even get to that? I really don't want to sift through 10 pages of this shit to actually follow the discussion. I mostly just saw xDaunt's original post, kind of didn't think anything of it, and left. Come back to 10+ pages about it.
GGTemplar called black people monkeys, people said it was racist, he spent 10 pages insisting that he was so not racist that he couldn't possibly have meant it as a slur and therefore anyone judging him for using a racial slur against blacks were themselves racist. It wasn't a good argument but he just wouldn't drop it.
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On September 23 2016 08:48 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 08:40 Slaughter wrote:On September 23 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 08:28 Slaughter wrote:On September 23 2016 08:26 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 08:21 Slaughter wrote:On September 23 2016 07:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On September 23 2016 07:34 Barrin wrote:On September 23 2016 07:32 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I understand. This entire debate sparked over posters commenting that the black people in the video were acting like animals/vermin/thugs. I understand why some people might think that sounds racist. It's not exactly something I fault them for or consider irrational.
What I consider irrational is not considering or accepting the possibility that it wasn't racially motivated. Even arguing that it had to be racially motivated because the words were being used against black people. I considered this irrational. I mocked how they were being picky-and-choosy with the insults they cared about 'going too far' as dehumanizing.
I focused on the obviously charitable position that any rational person ought to consider. These violent criminals were being called animals/vermin/thugs because they were acting like animals/vermin/thugs, not because they were black, which is what multiple posters seemed to be incapable of grasping.
That is when I decided to say fuck it and called them monkeys, and specifically stated I am calling them monkeys because they were acting like monkeys and it had nothing to do with their race or skin color. As you can tell, this confused some of the PC posters in this thread who irrationally rejected the idea that such an insult could be used (against a black person) without being racially motivated. I consider this highly irrational.
GH actually picked up on the point I was making extremely early on in the debate, and noted that it's possible for it to not be racist if 'monkey' was being used as a sort of synonym for 'stupid'. The thing is, everyone using these phrases made explicit multiple times that they were insulting these people because of their behavior, not because of their skin color. I even noted how I've probably called more white people 'fucking monkeys' to myself when i considered them to be behaving like animals.
I would think the discussion would have immediately turned to the historical context discussion that we are at now if the posters were more intelligent, but rather it turned into several posters arguing that "no you're only doing it because they're fucking black you racist".
So you're telling me why I'm calling someone stupid is because they are black after I've literally told you I am calling them stupid because they behaved stupid. That is how I saw the past 10 pages going down. I'm just saying that maybe you can avoid such confusion by using different terminology. I'd prefer we didn't have this socially taboo list of names you aren't allowed to call this group or that group. How about we as a society focus on progressing past these things that hold us back from culturally moving past this and focus on more productive things? Take away the power from these words and they lose meaning. It's literally Lord Voldemort vs 'he-who-must-not-be-named' but instead of one word we've got fucking dozens we're trying to censor. Some of them I understand, others like 'vermin' or 'thug' or 'monkey' make no fucking sense. It comes down to the idea that just because things are a certain way doesn't mean they have to stay that way. Whatever though. I will not call black people, or white people, or asian people, or anyone a monkey in this thread again (even if they're acting literally like violent animals).What other words should we censure as insults? Vermin? Thugs? Deplorables? Cucks? SJWS's? Alt-right? Hillbillys? Shills? Trumpets? Where do you want to draw the line. It's just ridiculous to me but whatever Your not being censored. People critiquing you for using terms is not censoring. Not like you are banned now are you? It's not state-sponsored censorship sure, but it's trying to control and suppress speech by banning specific words at an absurd level that could properly described as censorship. "You can no longer call a black person a vermin. You can call them a stupid fucking retard, but if you call them a vermin that goes too far because of racism now apparently."Seriously? Again, no one is stopping you from using it. People calling you out on it doesn't stop you. This is turning into a semantics debate over the nature of 'censorship'. People were calling these acts of racism. I'm pretty sure that equates to calling for 'stopping me' because I believe racism is a violation of the rules here (obviously, as it should be - and someone who is actually promoting racial hatred ought to be censored). I don't think I was racist because I don't think calling a criminal a criminal is racist. I don't think I did anything wrong. This was what was being contested and is very much a matter of censorship. Yea don't try to pretend thats what the argument was about. I don't think calling someone acting like a thug a thug is racist. Me neither, but mostly because it's also largely been used to refer to low rank members of organized crime (e.g. mafia).
Or just any sort of crime organized or not.
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On September 23 2016 08:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context. clearly you can't call black people names nowadays or you're a racist.
Surprisingly accurate.
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United States43753 Posts
On September 23 2016 08:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context. I argued that I could use it without using it in a racial context, something many posters here could not fathom. Apparently if you call someone a 'monkey' it has to be racial. Unless they're white. I can still call white people monkeys right? Where do hispanics and asians fit in all this? It reaches a point where I doubt whether or not I can even talk about the actual animal monkeys without offending someone. edit - Also, I wasn't even the first person who brought up monkeys. Someone else mentioned xDaunt might as well have called them 'monkeys' because he called them vermin and clearly you can't call black people names nowadays or you're a racist.
Yeah, don't call East Asians monkeys either. Same issue.
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United States43753 Posts
On September 23 2016 08:51 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:50 KwarK wrote:
... couldn't possibly have meant it as a slur ... *blows the straw man whistle*
Read the last 10 pages again.
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On September 23 2016 08:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:45 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2016 08:43 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Jesus Christ, did we really have nothing better to do than argue for 10+ pages about whether xDaunt is a racist for calling rioters vermin?
Like even if you think that was there really nothing better to argue about? It was actually mostly GGTemplar insisting that the word monkeys, as used to describe black people, has absolutely no racial context. How did it even get to that? I really don't want to sift through 10 pages of this shit to actually follow the discussion. I mostly just saw xDaunt's original post, kind of didn't think anything of it, and left. Come back to 10+ pages about it. GGTemplar called black people monkeys, people said it was racist, he spent 10 pages insisting that he was so not racist that he couldn't possibly have meant it as a slur and therefore anyone judging him for using a racial slur against blacks were themselves racist. It wasn't a good argument but he just wouldn't drop it.
Actually you're being pretty dishonest here. I'll help you out and fix up your straw man.
Someone accused xDaunt of calling black people monkeys as a racist because he called the violent criminals in the video vermin.
I said you know what? I think that's retarded because he's obviously not insulting black people he's insulting these criminals. Why are people defending these criminals? I'll call these people monkeys because they're acting like monkeys it has nothing to do with their skin color.
That is what I said.
Then everyone went full-retard and said we were all racists for insulting these people because they're black, and you can't use these insults against these criminals because they're black. To which I think is absurdly stupid and racist in-of-itself because I wouldn't think twice about insulting a white person in the same circumstances in the same way.
You are advocating treating someone differently specifically based on the color of their skin. I am advocating treating people equally. You are the racist not me
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I think we should all just mutually agree to let this matter go, for the sake of not continuing a pointless thread of discussion. This is going nowhere.
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EPT
