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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 28 2016 03:00 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 19:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:On August 26 2016 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone actually highlight a particular opinion that Milo holds that is worthy of the hate that he receives. All that I am seeing is general impeachment and character assassination (not to say that it's not all unwarranted).
C'mon, TL liberals. Stop being lame and say something interesting. I thought part of the problem with the PK regime was that people weren't allowed to express their opinions without being branded as assholes because of them, yet you seem not to acknowledge that people's hatred of Milo stems from his personality rather than his opinions? I'm totally willing to debate ideas, but this to me seemed like a debate about Milo, and what I am seeing is that most of us leftists are saying that his ideas are largely irrelevant in explaining why we 'hate' him. I think this is slightly off-base - I think his offensive personality is more offensive because we also disagree with his ideas (I think Michael Moore is an absolute clown, but I'll easily admit to being 'more riled up' by someone like Milo), but the point is still that his ideas are not the reason why people refuse to engage with him. If you want to debate his specific ideas, why not provide us with examples of his ideas that are not draped in asshole-skin? This is a consequence of the pc climate. People are too sensitive, the responsibility is shifted from the person who gets offended to the person offending. I doubt any right wing posters in this thread would be satisfied with such a weak response such as "he's just an asshole". If someone is being a dick, getting offended is your problem. Unfortunately we are taught the reverse these days by encouraging social shaming, safe spaces, and overall just being a thin skinned p****.
Yeah man, we should just encourage everyone to be a dick, that's how we get better people :D
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On August 28 2016 03:03 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:00 biology]major wrote:On August 27 2016 19:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:On August 26 2016 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone actually highlight a particular opinion that Milo holds that is worthy of the hate that he receives. All that I am seeing is general impeachment and character assassination (not to say that it's not all unwarranted).
C'mon, TL liberals. Stop being lame and say something interesting. I thought part of the problem with the PK regime was that people weren't allowed to express their opinions without being branded as assholes because of them, yet you seem not to acknowledge that people's hatred of Milo stems from his personality rather than his opinions? I'm totally willing to debate ideas, but this to me seemed like a debate about Milo, and what I am seeing is that most of us leftists are saying that his ideas are largely irrelevant in explaining why we 'hate' him. I think this is slightly off-base - I think his offensive personality is more offensive because we also disagree with his ideas (I think Michael Moore is an absolute clown, but I'll easily admit to being 'more riled up' by someone like Milo), but the point is still that his ideas are not the reason why people refuse to engage with him. If you want to debate his specific ideas, why not provide us with examples of his ideas that are not draped in asshole-skin? This is a consequence of the pc climate. People are too sensitive, the responsibility is shifted from the person who gets offended to the person offending. I doubt any right wing posters in this thread would be satisfied with such a weak response such as "he's just an asshole". If someone is being a dick, getting offended is your problem. Unfortunately we are taught the reverse these days by encouraging social shaming, safe spaces, and overall just being a thin skinned p****. Yeah man, we should just encourage everyone to be a dick, that's how we get better people :D
That's exactly what we should do, that way everyone would be more honest and quit hiding behind formalities and pleasantries and it would make people build a tolerance to bs. Something severely lacking right now
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Might be a little late I think.
Anti-Trump Republicans are preparing to launch a broadcast TV ad in a handful of swing-state suburbs urging Donald Trump to quit the presidential race so the party can replace him with a more electable nominee.
The ad, titled "Keep Your Word," features footage of Trump during the Republican primary in which he suggested he'd drop out if he saw his poll numbers decline.
"Number one, I'm not a masochist, and if I was dropping in the polls where I saw I wasn't going to win, why would I continue?" Trump said in an October NBC interview featured in the ad. A graphic displaying political handicappers' predictions of a landslide Trump loss accompanies his remarks. The ad ends with a plea: "Resign the nomination. Let the RNC replace you so we can beat Hillary."
The 30-second spot is marked for a limited run on broadcast networks in suburban Florida, Virginia, Ohio and Michigan, according to Regina Thomson, a Colorado Republican activist and leader of Free the Delegates, the organization that failed to stop Trump's nomination at last month's national convention. All four states are central to Trump's path to the White House, though he's trailing in most polls of those states.
The ad is backed by a five-figure buy, according to Thomson, but the group is hopeful to eventually expand its run to Fox News Channel. It's initially set to air on broadcast news channels beginning on Tuesday. It's marked for the four states' suburban media markets, according to Free the Delegates, because they're areas that typically lean Republican but appear to be tilting in Hillary Clinton's favor this year.
Source
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On August 28 2016 03:07 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:03 Luolis wrote:On August 28 2016 03:00 biology]major wrote:On August 27 2016 19:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:On August 26 2016 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone actually highlight a particular opinion that Milo holds that is worthy of the hate that he receives. All that I am seeing is general impeachment and character assassination (not to say that it's not all unwarranted).
C'mon, TL liberals. Stop being lame and say something interesting. I thought part of the problem with the PK regime was that people weren't allowed to express their opinions without being branded as assholes because of them, yet you seem not to acknowledge that people's hatred of Milo stems from his personality rather than his opinions? I'm totally willing to debate ideas, but this to me seemed like a debate about Milo, and what I am seeing is that most of us leftists are saying that his ideas are largely irrelevant in explaining why we 'hate' him. I think this is slightly off-base - I think his offensive personality is more offensive because we also disagree with his ideas (I think Michael Moore is an absolute clown, but I'll easily admit to being 'more riled up' by someone like Milo), but the point is still that his ideas are not the reason why people refuse to engage with him. If you want to debate his specific ideas, why not provide us with examples of his ideas that are not draped in asshole-skin? This is a consequence of the pc climate. People are too sensitive, the responsibility is shifted from the person who gets offended to the person offending. I doubt any right wing posters in this thread would be satisfied with such a weak response such as "he's just an asshole". If someone is being a dick, getting offended is your problem. Unfortunately we are taught the reverse these days by encouraging social shaming, safe spaces, and overall just being a thin skinned p****. Yeah man, we should just encourage everyone to be a dick, that's how we get better people :D That's exactly what we should do, that way everyone would be more honest and quit hiding behind formalities and pleasantries and it would make people build a tolerance to bs. Something severely lacking right now
Or, back in the real world, it gets a bunch of people who hate each other working together which ends with failures to communicate and a team that doesn't function.
And then you lose all the competent people because they can move on to better jobs with people they can actually get along with.
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On August 28 2016 03:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Might be a little late I think. Show nested quote +Anti-Trump Republicans are preparing to launch a broadcast TV ad in a handful of swing-state suburbs urging Donald Trump to quit the presidential race so the party can replace him with a more electable nominee.
The ad, titled "Keep Your Word," features footage of Trump during the Republican primary in which he suggested he'd drop out if he saw his poll numbers decline.
"Number one, I'm not a masochist, and if I was dropping in the polls where I saw I wasn't going to win, why would I continue?" Trump said in an October NBC interview featured in the ad. A graphic displaying political handicappers' predictions of a landslide Trump loss accompanies his remarks. The ad ends with a plea: "Resign the nomination. Let the RNC replace you so we can beat Hillary."
The 30-second spot is marked for a limited run on broadcast networks in suburban Florida, Virginia, Ohio and Michigan, according to Regina Thomson, a Colorado Republican activist and leader of Free the Delegates, the organization that failed to stop Trump's nomination at last month's national convention. All four states are central to Trump's path to the White House, though he's trailing in most polls of those states.
The ad is backed by a five-figure buy, according to Thomson, but the group is hopeful to eventually expand its run to Fox News Channel. It's initially set to air on broadcast news channels beginning on Tuesday. It's marked for the four states' suburban media markets, according to Free the Delegates, because they're areas that typically lean Republican but appear to be tilting in Hillary Clinton's favor this year. Source
In the words of Spock, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.
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On August 28 2016 00:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +The University of Chicago is welcoming new students to campus by warning them that they might hear things that might make them uncomfortable.
A letter sent by the school this week tells incoming freshmen that the university does not support "trigger warnings" as part of its commitment to freedom of expression.
"Dear Class of 2020 student," the welcome letter from the school's Dean of Students John Ellison begins. It goes on to explain the university's commitment to freedom of expression and inquiry. Students "are encouraged to speak, write, listen, challenge and learn without fear of censorship."
And that means the school "does not support so-called 'trigger warnings' " to alert students of upcoming discussions or speakers that they might find offensive.
The University of Chicago won't cancel controversial speakers, and it "does not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own."
Law professor Geoffrey Stone says the letter's intent was based on a report from a faculty committee he chaired on freedom of expression and academic freedom.
"This is really exciting," Stone says. "You're coming to an amazing institution."
He says the University of Chicago has a long history of standing for those principles. Source
Nice.
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What is Dr. Stein’s explicit position on vaccines and her concern with the FDA and CDC?
Vaccines are a critical part of our public health system. I have always been pro-vaccine, and in fact as the only candidate who supports universal health care as a right, in effect, I am the most pro-vaccine and pro-health candidate in this race. Vaccines prevent serious epidemics that would cause harm to many people and that is why they are a foundation to a strong public health system. Polio is an important example. So is H Flu - a bacteria that caused serious illness, including meningitis, in 20,000 children a year in the US, before development of the H flu vaccine.
As a doctor, I’m concerned that many Americans don’t trust the FDA. Why not? For starters, the current FDA commissioner appointed by President Obama was a highly paid consultant for big pharmaceutical corporations, as Senator Sanders pointed out in opposing his nomination. In the case of Vioxx, the FDA approved a profitable pain reliever that caused up to 140,000 cases of heart disease, and even tried to silence its own scientists who discovered this deadly side effect.
The CDC actually accepts huge amounts of money from big pharmaceutical corporations, as an investigation by the British Medical Journal revealed. So many scientists, doctors and watchdog groups have flagged these clear conflicts of interest in the FDA, CDC and other federal agencies.
As President I would stop the revolving door and clean up these agencies so that the American people can trust that they’re putting people over profits, and science over lobbying interests.
Source
So where exactly are you guys getting confused about her being anti-vaccine from?
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United States44247 Posts
This idea that it's the left who get too easily offended and hate free speech is a little funny given that like 99% of the left just think that assholes should suffer social consequences for being assholes and the 1% who think the world should be rewritten to suit them are no different from people like Trump who get triggered whenever they hear "Happy Holidays".This idea that kids today are pussies who can't deal with anything they don't like without running to a safe space is pretty funny to hear from a generation that would freak the fuck out if a black guy tried to use the same water fountain as them.
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United States44247 Posts
On August 28 2016 03:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +What is Dr. Stein’s explicit position on vaccines and her concern with the FDA and CDC?
Vaccines are a critical part of our public health system. I have always been pro-vaccine, and in fact as the only candidate who supports universal health care as a right, in effect, I am the most pro-vaccine and pro-health candidate in this race. Vaccines prevent serious epidemics that would cause harm to many people and that is why they are a foundation to a strong public health system. Polio is an important example. So is H Flu - a bacteria that caused serious illness, including meningitis, in 20,000 children a year in the US, before development of the H flu vaccine.
As a doctor, I’m concerned that many Americans don’t trust the FDA. Why not? For starters, the current FDA commissioner appointed by President Obama was a highly paid consultant for big pharmaceutical corporations, as Senator Sanders pointed out in opposing his nomination. In the case of Vioxx, the FDA approved a profitable pain reliever that caused up to 140,000 cases of heart disease, and even tried to silence its own scientists who discovered this deadly side effect.
The CDC actually accepts huge amounts of money from big pharmaceutical corporations, as an investigation by the British Medical Journal revealed. So many scientists, doctors and watchdog groups have flagged these clear conflicts of interest in the FDA, CDC and other federal agencies.
As President I would stop the revolving door and clean up these agencies so that the American people can trust that they’re putting people over profits, and science over lobbying interests. Source
Hi Jill, what's your position on vaccines.
Well, as a doctor... I'm gonna talk about the FDA, allude to conspiracy and big evil corporations and then conclude that people should be put first.
I'm amazed she didn't bring up how she likes puppies, the leaves in the fall and the smell of fresh rain.
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Well they also believe that being accused of racism is the worst thing that could ever happen to somebody, instead of.. well actual discrimination and racism so it's not that surprising
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Oh there's this one too
Dr. Stein has called the notion that she is anti-vaccine the “swift boat” attack of this election. Can she please explain this?
Like the “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” attacks on John Kerry, the birther claims that Barack Obama wasn’t born in the US, and most recently the DNC’s campaign to paint Bernie Sanders as an atheist, the campaign to trick people into thinking I’m against vaccines was never about the truth. Look at the investigative website snopes.com - they researched this claim and rated it false. But just like the birther conspiracy, there are people who keep repeating a discredited claim because their real agenda is to create confusion and doubt and distract people from important issues like creating an economy that works for all of us.
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On August 28 2016 03:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:What is Dr. Stein’s explicit position on vaccines and her concern with the FDA and CDC?
Vaccines are a critical part of our public health system. I have always been pro-vaccine, and in fact as the only candidate who supports universal health care as a right, in effect, I am the most pro-vaccine and pro-health candidate in this race. Vaccines prevent serious epidemics that would cause harm to many people and that is why they are a foundation to a strong public health system. Polio is an important example. So is H Flu - a bacteria that caused serious illness, including meningitis, in 20,000 children a year in the US, before development of the H flu vaccine.
As a doctor, I’m concerned that many Americans don’t trust the FDA. Why not? For starters, the current FDA commissioner appointed by President Obama was a highly paid consultant for big pharmaceutical corporations, as Senator Sanders pointed out in opposing his nomination. In the case of Vioxx, the FDA approved a profitable pain reliever that caused up to 140,000 cases of heart disease, and even tried to silence its own scientists who discovered this deadly side effect.
The CDC actually accepts huge amounts of money from big pharmaceutical corporations, as an investigation by the British Medical Journal revealed. So many scientists, doctors and watchdog groups have flagged these clear conflicts of interest in the FDA, CDC and other federal agencies.
As President I would stop the revolving door and clean up these agencies so that the American people can trust that they’re putting people over profits, and science over lobbying interests. Source Hi Jill, what's your position on vaccines. Well, as a doctor... I'm gonna talk about the FDA, allude to conspiracy and big evil corporations and then conclude that people should be put first. I'm amazed she didn't bring up how she likes puppies, the leaves in the fall and the smell of fresh rain.
That's a fucking joke and you know it
where is she anti-vaccine?
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There's absolutely no way you can honestly describe her as being anything but pro-vaccine from that
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On August 28 2016 03:36 Nyxisto wrote:
Well they also believe that being accused of racism is the worst thing that could ever happen to somebody, instead of.. well actual discrimination and racism so it's not that surprising
If you are liberal with strong and damaging words like racist, all you are doing is diluting the word and making it less meaningful. You think there's a single poster here who actually isn't against racism?
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United States44247 Posts
On August 28 2016 03:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:36 KwarK wrote:On August 28 2016 03:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:What is Dr. Stein’s explicit position on vaccines and her concern with the FDA and CDC?
Vaccines are a critical part of our public health system. I have always been pro-vaccine, and in fact as the only candidate who supports universal health care as a right, in effect, I am the most pro-vaccine and pro-health candidate in this race. Vaccines prevent serious epidemics that would cause harm to many people and that is why they are a foundation to a strong public health system. Polio is an important example. So is H Flu - a bacteria that caused serious illness, including meningitis, in 20,000 children a year in the US, before development of the H flu vaccine.
As a doctor, I’m concerned that many Americans don’t trust the FDA. Why not? For starters, the current FDA commissioner appointed by President Obama was a highly paid consultant for big pharmaceutical corporations, as Senator Sanders pointed out in opposing his nomination. In the case of Vioxx, the FDA approved a profitable pain reliever that caused up to 140,000 cases of heart disease, and even tried to silence its own scientists who discovered this deadly side effect.
The CDC actually accepts huge amounts of money from big pharmaceutical corporations, as an investigation by the British Medical Journal revealed. So many scientists, doctors and watchdog groups have flagged these clear conflicts of interest in the FDA, CDC and other federal agencies.
As President I would stop the revolving door and clean up these agencies so that the American people can trust that they’re putting people over profits, and science over lobbying interests. Source Hi Jill, what's your position on vaccines. Well, as a doctor... I'm gonna talk about the FDA, allude to conspiracy and big evil corporations and then conclude that people should be put first. I'm amazed she didn't bring up how she likes puppies, the leaves in the fall and the smell of fresh rain. That's a fucking joke and you know it where is she anti-vaccine?
I didn't say she was anti-vaccines. What I found amusing is that she basically just said she disapproves of polio and then immediately changed to pandering to the anti-pharma crowd. It's such an incredibly bland and appeasing all sides answer that she might as well have included her feelings on puppies. She immediately qualified her anti polio stance with "but you can't trust the FDA and the CDC and big pharma" before talking about how it'd be awesome if people were put first, whatever the fuck that means.
Like who is the pro conflicts of interest and putting people last group that she's arguing against here? It's meaningless.
If this were an actual interview the interviewer would immediately ask
So you're saying that because the FDA and the CDC are influenced by big pharma their vaccination recommendations aren't medically sound?
No, I'm not saying that.
But you qualified your approval of the eradication of polio with an implication that the Federal agencies advocating vaccination and verifying the safety of vaccines are compromised by conflicts of interest?
Yes.
Do you think these conflicts of interests impact the vaccines they recommend? Is this a reason to question whether or not they should get vaccinated?
No, I'm pro vaccine, anti polio.
Then why the fuck are you bringing it up when asked if you support vaccination?!
And of course the reason it was brought up is because it appeals to the soccer mom who doesn't trust the big scary government to choose which diseases kill her child, not after she's done 20 minutes of googling on conspiracy websites. The anti polio anti putting profits before people stance is a bullshit stance and the answer is a bullshit answer.
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On August 28 2016 03:41 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:36 Nyxisto wrote:
Well they also believe that being accused of racism is the worst thing that could ever happen to somebody, instead of.. well actual discrimination and racism so it's not that surprising If you are liberal with strong and damaging words like racist, all you are doing is diluting the word and making it less meaningful. You think there's a single poster here who actually isn't against racism?
Yes, at least 3.
But its all just for the lulz....
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Canada11594 Posts
On August 28 2016 03:07 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:03 Luolis wrote:On August 28 2016 03:00 biology]major wrote:On August 27 2016 19:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:On August 26 2016 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone actually highlight a particular opinion that Milo holds that is worthy of the hate that he receives. All that I am seeing is general impeachment and character assassination (not to say that it's not all unwarranted).
C'mon, TL liberals. Stop being lame and say something interesting. I thought part of the problem with the PK regime was that people weren't allowed to express their opinions without being branded as assholes because of them, yet you seem not to acknowledge that people's hatred of Milo stems from his personality rather than his opinions? I'm totally willing to debate ideas, but this to me seemed like a debate about Milo, and what I am seeing is that most of us leftists are saying that his ideas are largely irrelevant in explaining why we 'hate' him. I think this is slightly off-base - I think his offensive personality is more offensive because we also disagree with his ideas (I think Michael Moore is an absolute clown, but I'll easily admit to being 'more riled up' by someone like Milo), but the point is still that his ideas are not the reason why people refuse to engage with him. If you want to debate his specific ideas, why not provide us with examples of his ideas that are not draped in asshole-skin? This is a consequence of the pc climate. People are too sensitive, the responsibility is shifted from the person who gets offended to the person offending. I doubt any right wing posters in this thread would be satisfied with such a weak response such as "he's just an asshole". If someone is being a dick, getting offended is your problem. Unfortunately we are taught the reverse these days by encouraging social shaming, safe spaces, and overall just being a thin skinned p****. Yeah man, we should just encourage everyone to be a dick, that's how we get better people :D That's exactly what we should do, that way everyone would be more honest and quit hiding behind formalities and pleasantries and it would make people build a tolerance to bs. Something severely lacking right now
You are describing a society run by four year olds, which granted are very very honest. However, truth and formality are not opposed to each other. It's just that we learn self-control, tact, and diplomacy- all of which makes a person more pleasant to work or live with. Learning to control the tongue, I think is an essential skill to becoming a well-adjusted person in a civil society. And it has nothing to do with people being overly sensitive.
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On August 28 2016 04:15 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2016 03:07 biology]major wrote:On August 28 2016 03:03 Luolis wrote:On August 28 2016 03:00 biology]major wrote:On August 27 2016 19:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:On August 26 2016 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone actually highlight a particular opinion that Milo holds that is worthy of the hate that he receives. All that I am seeing is general impeachment and character assassination (not to say that it's not all unwarranted).
C'mon, TL liberals. Stop being lame and say something interesting. I thought part of the problem with the PK regime was that people weren't allowed to express their opinions without being branded as assholes because of them, yet you seem not to acknowledge that people's hatred of Milo stems from his personality rather than his opinions? I'm totally willing to debate ideas, but this to me seemed like a debate about Milo, and what I am seeing is that most of us leftists are saying that his ideas are largely irrelevant in explaining why we 'hate' him. I think this is slightly off-base - I think his offensive personality is more offensive because we also disagree with his ideas (I think Michael Moore is an absolute clown, but I'll easily admit to being 'more riled up' by someone like Milo), but the point is still that his ideas are not the reason why people refuse to engage with him. If you want to debate his specific ideas, why not provide us with examples of his ideas that are not draped in asshole-skin? This is a consequence of the pc climate. People are too sensitive, the responsibility is shifted from the person who gets offended to the person offending. I doubt any right wing posters in this thread would be satisfied with such a weak response such as "he's just an asshole". If someone is being a dick, getting offended is your problem. Unfortunately we are taught the reverse these days by encouraging social shaming, safe spaces, and overall just being a thin skinned p****. Yeah man, we should just encourage everyone to be a dick, that's how we get better people :D That's exactly what we should do, that way everyone would be more honest and quit hiding behind formalities and pleasantries and it would make people build a tolerance to bs. Something severely lacking right now You are describing a society run by four year olds, which granted are very very honest. However, truth and formality are not opposed to each other. It's just that we learn self-control, tact, and diplomacy- all of which makes a person more pleasant to work or live with. Learning to control the tongue, I think is an essential skill to becoming a well-adjusted person in a civil society. And it has nothing to do with people being overly sensitive.
I would love to live in a society where no one was offensive and no one was offended, but everyone starts of soft and gets exposed to bs throughout life and adjusts accordingly. We have over corrected so far towards the pc side that people will remain sensitive throughout adulthood, which is what's happening now. College campuses are a joke, glad University of Chicago is headed in the right direction.
My suggestion for everyone to be dicks was just to counteract what is happening now, but ultimately you should aim be tactful, honest and hard to offend. Dicks and assholes are like mosquitoes flying around inoculating you with viruses that hurt you in the short term but eventually give you immunity.
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Is it not also a worthwhile aim to cut down on the number of dicks and assholes by getting them to change their behavior?
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Or you know, mosquitoes are the deadliest animals on the planet by miles and miles.
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EPT
