EPTNo power has any interest in challenging the United States, it is an age of peace and prosperity.
That must be the most ignorant posting i've seen in a while. And wrong on top.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4717
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m4ini
4215 Posts
That must be the most ignorant posting i've seen in a while. And wrong on top. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:29 PassiveAce wrote: Except it's objectively true Except it's really not. Objectively. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:29 PassiveAce wrote: Except it's objectively true Is it? What part? The one that said "nobody is challenging the US", which is objectively and factually wrong, or the "age of peace", which is even worse, considering that there never was more fear, death and terror for the west, and the shit show that you guys turned the middle east into? Right. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:31 m4ini wrote: Is it? What part? The one that said "nobody is challenging the US", which is objectively and factually wrong, or the "age of peace", which is even worse, considering that there never was more fear, death and terror for the west, and the shit show that you guys turned the middle east into? Right. The latter is very wrong. This is going to be the most peaceful century Europe has probably ever seen. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote: The latter is very wrong. This is going to be the most peaceful century Europe has probably ever seen. And that clearly has nothing to do with the EU. In fact, europe would've seen even less wars if you guys wouldn't have dragged them in. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:35 m4ini wrote: And that clearly has nothing to do with the EU. I'm just saying maybe the first part of Kwark's statement you could contest. But I don't think the latter is very debatable | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28784 Posts
You can definitely argue about the costs to the non-west, and in isolation the previous 2-3 years and probably the following 5+ years are less good, but specifically to the west, US hegemony has been very good, so far. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I'm just saying maybe the first part of Kwark's statement you could contest. But I don't think the latter is very debatable It is if you're stating that the US is the reason for that. Europe hasn't had a big war (like we used to) because they've sat together and worked, well.. "something" out. The EU is far from perfect, maybe even far from actually "good", but it's definitely the biggest stabilizer. even if the next 5 years becomes progressively much worse and an actual civil war happens in either france or the US, 1945 - 2020 will be just about the most peaceful and prosperous 75-year period the west has ever seen, and the US has been leading during this period. That's just dumb. Yeah, we didn't have another world war (which, funny enough, almost happened thanks to the US/USSR). That's it. If you're saying that we didn't have another war with literally billions of people dead or close to death, then yes. What an amazing feat. We just killed hundreds of thousands. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:31 m4ini wrote: Is it? What part? The one that said "nobody is challenging the US", which is objectively and factually wrong, or the "age of peace", which is even worse, considering that there never was more fear, death and terror for the west, and the shit show that you guys turned the middle east into? Right. As periods of human history go, the last 70-odd years (or even the last 10) have barely any "fear, death and terror" for the west, and worldwide is probably at worst average. The assertion that "nobody is challenging the US" seems fairly ridiculous though. From where I sit, the US is presently in the process of losing to China. (Not that I think Trump would do anything but accelerate that.) | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22198 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:41 m4ini wrote: It is if you're stating that the US is the reason for that. Europe hasn't had a big war (like we used to) because they've sat together and worked, well.. "something" out. The EU is far from perfect, maybe even far from actually "good", but it's definitely the biggest stabilizer. That's just dumb. Yeah, we didn't have another world war (which, funny enough, almost happened thanks to the US/USSR). That's it. If you're saying that we didn't have another war with literally billions of people dead or close to death, then yes. What an amazing feat. We just killed hundreds of thousands. While the EU had a massive stabilizing effect that no one will doubt, I highly doubt it would have formed without the US umbrella keeping foreign interested (mainly USSR) out. The US hegemony protection allowed for the EU to form into the stabilizing factor it is today. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22198 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:46 Aquanim wrote: As periods of human history go, the last 70-odd years (or even the last 10) have barely any "fear, death and terror" for the west, and worldwide is probably at worst average. The assertion that "nobody is challenging the US" seems fairly ridiculous though. From where I sit, the US is presently in the process of losing to China. (Not that I think Trump would do anything but accelerate that.) How is the US losing to China? Because I don't see pretty much any facet in which China can be seen as 'winning' outside of pure population numbers. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:46 Aquanim wrote: As periods of human history go, the last 70-odd years (or even the last 10) have barely any "fear, death and terror" for the west, and worldwide is probably at worst average. Factually wrong for "the last 10 years", can't be arsed to look up 70 years as well. The assertion that "nobody is challenging the US" seems fairly ridiculous though. From where I sit, the US is presently in the process of losing to China. (Not that I think Trump would do anything but accelerate that.) Not just china. I think russia does a decent job too, starting from running simulated attack runs on navy ships, to crimea and giving the US (and the EU) the finger, and most notably, cyber warfare. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:38 Liquid`Drone wrote: even if the next 5 years becomes progressively much worse and an actual civil war happens in either france or the US, 1945 - 2020 will be just about the most peaceful and prosperous 75-year period the west has ever seen, and the US has been leading during this period. You can definitely argue about the costs to the non-west, and in isolation the previous 2-3 years and probably the following 5+ years are less good, but specifically to the west, US hegemony has been very good, so far. White supremacist and imperialist apologist ! PS : i'm joking. The US has been a responsible hegemon since the end of second world war. On another note, the 75 years before the first world war was actually a pretty peaceful period, except for the 1870 franco prussian war which was basically settled in a few month. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:52 m4ini wrote: Factually wrong for "the last 10 years", can't be arsed to look up 70 years as well. If you're not going to say anything more than blindly assert that I'm "factually wrong" then we can't have a discussion, now can we? Islamic terrorism is a piss-poor threat compared to the internal and external wars the West's been in for a lot of its history. Not just china. I think russia does a decent job too, starting from running simulated attack runs on navy ships, to crimea and giving the US (and the EU) the finger, and most notably, cyber warfare. In the long run though Russia doesn't pose much of an economic and political threat. China very much does. On August 12 2016 07:50 Gorsameth wrote: How is the US losing to China? Because I don't see pretty much any facet in which China can be seen as 'winning' outside of pure population numbers. Economically. I don't know if China's ahead at this moment, but considering trajectories... | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22198 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:52 m4ini wrote: Factually wrong for "the last 10 years", can't be arsed to look up 70 years as well. Not just china. I think russia does a decent job too, starting from running simulated attack runs on navy ships, to crimea and giving the US (and the EU) the finger, and most notably, cyber warfare. Russia is a broke man with nothing but his cloths and a shopping card of crap threatening to sue you. Its mindless chest beating and fighting against a country unable to defend itself (Ukraine). Their the big bully who is all talk but no brain that picks on the weakest kid in the playground and who will be working behind a grill in McDonalds for the rest of his life trying to scrape by. Their last big show piece was going to Syria to sort out ISIS, a job they utterly left unfinished when they pulled out because their economy is shot to hell and they cannot afford to project power anymore. Russia is not 'winning' anything. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On August 12 2016 07:46 Aquanim wrote: As periods of human history go, the last 70-odd years (or even the last 10) have barely any "fear, death and terror" for the west, and worldwide is probably at worst average. Factually wrong for "the last 10 years", can't be arsed to look up 70 years as well. The assertion that "nobody is challenging the US" seems fairly ridiculous though. From where I sit, the US is presently in the process of losing to China. (Not that I think Trump would do anything but accelerate that.) Not just china. I think russia does a decent job too, starting from running simulated attack runs on navy ships, to crimea and giving the US (and the EU) the finger, and most notably, cyber warfare. While the EU had a massive stabilizing effect that no one will doubt, I highly doubt it would have formed without the US umbrella keeping foreign interested (mainly USSR) out. The US hegemony protection allowed for the EU to form into the stabilizing factor it is today. That'd be the NATO, not the US. You know. The allegiance that only was called upon once in regards to what it was intended for. By the US. To fight a war based on a lie. I'm not saying the US didn't play a role. What i'm saying is, that it's extremely ignorant to assume the US made the world a better place by itself. Because if you look at the US in a vacuum, the opposite is the case. Starting from constantly starting wars for imperialistic/capitalistic reasons (you know, the reasons we had them in europe), to pretty much founding, growing, grooming, whatever you want to call it, the biggest threat the west faced since the cold war. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
The main reason to fear Russia is fear of the unpredictability of someone with their back against the wall and almost nothing to lose, really. Also it's downright silly to attribute the Middle East clusterfuck solely to the U.S. Perhaps the catalyst was the U.S. and the Soviets flexing their muscles over the region, but there were decades (even centuries) of European manipulation long before that adding fuel to the fire. It was up there with Africa when it came to imperialist sandboxes. | ||
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