In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
I really feel like this all started with the Iraq War. American conservatives found it in their head, sometime in 2002-2003, that they can and very well ought to just say anything. You're not dastardly wrong, you're American.
Saddam has WMDs and the best way to prevent their use is to, uh, invade his country. If you can "believe" that shit, why not "believe" Obama is a muslim terrorist. Somewhere there was supposed to be a line at which point one needs to be serious and humble. And the worst of us found it doesn't exist, and now that war is an exhausted exercise for their demons (I hope), their next thing is Donald Trump.
It's not enough for Donald Trump to lose this election. We need to re-establish that line, and we need to be perfectly clear about who has crossed it. But I'm dreaming.
On August 12 2016 05:47 Leporello wrote: I really feel like this all started with the Iraq War. American conservatives found it in their head, sometime in 2002-2003, that they can and very well ought to just say anything. You're not dastardly wrong, you're American.
Saddam has WMDs and the best way to prevent their use is to, uh, invade his country. If you can "believe" that shit, why not "believe" Obama is a muslim terrorist. Somewhere there was supposed to be a line at which point one needs to be serious and humble. And the worst of us found it doesn't exist, and now that war is an exhausted exercise for their demons, their next thing is Donald Trump.
It's not enough for Donald Trump to lose this election. We need to re-establish that line, and we need to be perfectly clear about who has crossed it. IMO.
The issue is that crossing that line is seen as fighting the system, there are millions of people saying that a candidate proposing deregulation and trickle-down economics is anti-establishment for the sole reason that he is being unprofessional and professionalism is something conflated with the establishment.
Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
Him being decimated in a National election? It will give supporters or independents a pause I'd imagine. Or at least force the GOP party to split. The semi sane and the far right.
On August 12 2016 02:52 Dan HH wrote: "I like Trump because he tells it like it is and hires the best people, but he didn't meant what he just said and it's not his fault his staff is full of nutjobs"
Still better than a corrupt liberal. I can't wait to see what wiki leaks is gonna drop the month of the election
At that point, it seems some people would vote for Voldemort if he was running against Hillary because of how corrupt and crooked she is. Still waiting to know why and how she is corrupt with something else than the email server scandal, but I guess we are not talking facts here.
On August 12 2016 05:06 Chris1 wrote: The world is a powder keg currently, I mean.. imagine the situation that would put Turkey and Russia as apparent close allies and what was it that brings them together after so much conflict the last year, resentment against the US and the Obama administration.
Hilary has a proven track record of bad judgment in the middle east and I really would feel less safe with a Clinton white house as I strongly believe she will only add to the current powder keg around the world.
We're a lot closer to world war 3 than the media makes it out to be, Putin himself says we are "Being pulled in a irreversible direction." and whether you like or hate Putin he is the leader of Russia so what he says should atleast be heard with an open ear.
There is no chance of a World War 3 because there is no power in the world that could remotely challenge the United States and her allies. Russia is extremely weak. The Soviet Union was a paper tiger for decades that was only able to put up a pretense of parity with the west through the deliberate bankruptcy of her people. Now even that is gone. The United States is currently in a position of being able to launch an effective first strike on the Russian Republic, should it so choose, without risk of a catastrophic second strike. We live under the aegis of American hegemony and I like it that way. No power has any interest in challenging the United States, it is an age of peace and prosperity.
Certainly not much chance of WW3 in the near future but there is a hell of a lot of unjustified arrogance here. The kind that could actually lead the world to a scenario in which your assertion about nuclear weapons would actually have to be tested.
On August 12 2016 06:11 DickMcFanny wrote: Holy crap, what the shit.
I just saw the "hot sauce" "incident", what in the fuck! I can't believe that shit worked, wtf black people!
She does, and has, carried "hot sauce" for a while (years), but it's for health reasons more than anything else. It was a clever pander though still. If she wasn't defaulted to most people not believing anything she says it would have been quite savvy.
There's ~40 million or so Black people in the US, the overwhelming majority didn't vote for Hillary.
We just confirmed that our constitutional rights have been getting trampled for decades (in Baltimore among other cities) and none of the responsible individuals are going to prison, or seeing much if any punishment. It's no surprise most of us don't feel like there's anyone to vote for anyway.
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
You do realize that this is the very attitude that is going to result in the failure to stop the emergence of a national populist party, right?
Who gives a fuck? Every country has their idiot fringe parties. This tendency is consistent throughout history. When countries become more progressive, there is always a trend where moderates leave a party for a more progressive party. This results in the original conservative party becoming even more conservative than before. This trend continues until you essentially have this rotten core of crazies, which is what we now have on our hands.
But this is normal and has happened to many more countries than our own. We're a bit behind, but we're making progress. Populist parties can exist, they just won't ever win anything.
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
You do realize that this is the very attitude that is going to result in the failure to stop the emergence of a national populist party, right?
No, appeasement does not work at all. This kind of tolerance is exactly what has enabled these movements in the first place. The one thing that the extreme right has figured out that is actually correct is that they actually are in a culture war. The rest of society has only now noticed that they're supposed to fight back at some point because it's getting a little scary.
A group of pastors is suing Illinois over a law that bars therapists and counselors from trying to change a minor’s sexual orientation, saying in a Thursday filing that the prohibition violates free speech and religious rights.
The federal lawsuit seeks to exclude clergy from the ban that took effect Jan. 1, arguing that homosexuality is “contrary to God’s purpose” and a disorder that “can be resisted or overcome by those who seek to be faithful to God and His Word.”
Illinois is among five states with bans on so-called gay conversion therapy for youth under 18, a practice critics have decried as psychologically damaging. The laws in California and New Jersey have withstood legal challenges, but an attorney for the pastors said the prohibitions in those states did not include clergy.
“The law in Illinois is broader than the other laws, which were aimed at licensed counselors,” said John Mauck, who added that his plaintiffs are not seeking to overturn the entire ban, but want a ruling stating it shouldn’t apply to clergy.
Vermont and Oregon are the other states with bans, and President Barack Obama expressed support for such laws last year.
The Illinois Attorney General’s office, which will handle the lawsuit on behalf of the state, had not received the lawsuit yet and couldn’t comment, spokeswoman Annie Thompson said.
Illinois’ law applies to therapists and other licensed counselors, but the portion of the law that concerns pastors makes anyone liable for consumer fraud if they practice or advertise conversion therapy that portrays homosexuality as a mental disorder.
“We want to make sure that young people in particular have access to pastoral and Biblical-based counsel if they want it, and that pastors are able to provide Bible-based counseling without any fear of legal repercussions,” said Steven Stultz, a Chicago pastor who is part of the lawsuit. Four other pastors are also involved, as well as Pastors Protecting Youth and Civil Liberties for Urban Believers.
Rep. Kelly Cassidy, a Chicago Democrat who sponsored the bill, said she’s met with people who have gone through conversion therapy and they tell stories of feeling suicidal, humiliated and alienated from their families.
“This is torture, this is abuse. We can’t sanction that,” she said.
Cassidy’s bill quoted language from the American Psychiatric Association warning in 2000 that “the potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient.”
But Stultz said the young parishioners who have sought his counsel have had positive experiences.
“I think we’ve been able to do it in such a way that doesn’t bring condemnation, doesn’t bring pressure,” he said.
You know the lawsuit is going to be a winner when one of their argument is that the law is “contrary to God’s purpose”.
I also like how they want an exception for clergy to be allowed practice that is widely considered abuse and torture. But I guess they consider themselves to be magical or something.
I also like how they want an exception for clergy to be allowed practice that is widely considered abuse and torture. But I guess they consider themselves to be magical or something.
Every now and then, I am reminded that these people actually believe this stuff. I am so used to people who are "spiritual and somewhat religious" as Christians that I totally forget there are people who think all that stuff in the bible is A+. A bunch of real, true, accurate stuff because it was all coming straight from some being that can create universes. It's mind blowing.
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
You do realize that this is the very attitude that is going to result in the failure to stop the emergence of a national populist party, right?
Who gives a fuck? Every country has their idiot fringe parties. This tendency is consistent throughout history. When countries become more progressive, there is always a trend where moderates leave a party for a more progressive party. This results in the original conservative party becoming even more conservative than before. This trend continues until you essentially have this rotten core of crazies, which is what we now have on our hands.
But this is normal and has happened to many more countries than our own. We're a bit behind, but we're making progress. Populist parties can exist, they just won't ever win anything.
The idea that "progressive" ideas are always good is precisely what gives those parties substantial power. It's pure arrogance to think that they can't win. Do you seriously think a slightly more level-headed Trump would have no chance of winning this election? Trump as is still has a reasonable chance of winning.
In a fiery speech that sharply criticized her opponent’s economic vision for the US, Hillary Clinton said Donald Trump’s proposals will only benefit the rich, while destroying the economy in tandem.
Speaking before hundreds of union workers and supporters on Thursday, Clinton positioned her plan as a boon for the middle class, with a pledge to curry support in Congress for the largest investment in “good-paying jobs” since the second world war by rebuilding infrastructure across the nation.
“We will put Americans to work, building and modernizing our roads, our bridges, our tunnels, our railways, our ports, our airports,” she said. “We are way overdue for this, my friends. We are living off the investments that were made by our parents’ and grandparents’ generations.”
Trump’s plan, by contrast, doesn’t offer any “credible solutions to the very real economic challenges we face”, she said.
“He would give trillions in tax cuts to corporations … that would explode our national debt and eventually lead to massive cuts in priorities like education, healthcare and environmental protection,” Clinton said.
Clinton’s campaign said her plan would add more than 10m jobs across the US. It would include employment opportunities for outgoing prison inmates and youth, as well as billions of dollars for infrastructure projects. Despite embracing a more upbeat view of the nation’s outlook compared to her opponent, Clinton noted that income inequality has continued to increase in recent years.
“It is just too hard to get ahead today,” she said. “But there are commonsense things that your government can do that would give Americans more opportunities to succeed. Why don’t we do it? Because powerful special interests and the tendency to put ideology ahead of political progress have led to gridlock in Congress.”
Clinton’s 50-minute speech in south-east Michigan followed an economic policy rollout on Monday by her opponent – whose remarks in Detroit were interrupted more than a dozen times by protesters. Trump’s subdued speech (by his standards) took repeated shots at Clinton, in particular by saying her “failed” economic agenda is indicative of problems in Detroit, which emerged from municipal bankruptcy just under two years ago.
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
You do realize that this is the very attitude that is going to result in the failure to stop the emergence of a national populist party, right?
Who gives a fuck? Every country has their idiot fringe parties. This tendency is consistent throughout history. When countries become more progressive, there is always a trend where moderates leave a party for a more progressive party. This results in the original conservative party becoming even more conservative than before. This trend continues until you essentially have this rotten core of crazies, which is what we now have on our hands.
But this is normal and has happened to many more countries than our own. We're a bit behind, but we're making progress. Populist parties can exist, they just won't ever win anything.
The idea that "progressive" ideas are always good is precisely what gives those parties substantial power. It's pure arrogance to think that they can't win. Do you seriously think a slightly more level-headed Trump would have no chance of winning this election? Trump as is still has a reasonable chance of winning.
Trump has a reasonable chance of winning because 40% of the country would vote for a skunk so long as there is a (R) on the ballot. (the same going for Democrats).
On August 12 2016 05:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Trump not only needs to lose but he needs to be humiliated. As this country is wtinessing the birth of a mainstream American National Front type of party.
The Secret Service protected MSNBC reporter Katy Tur after Donald Trump launched a personal attack at a December rally.
The candidate had previously blasted her as “dishonest” for her coverage of protests at an earlier rally and demanded an apology, which Tur refused to give.
"What a lie. Katy Tur. What a lie it was," Trump said, pointing at Tur from the stage. "Third. Rate. Reporter. Remember that.”
In an essay for Marie Claire, Tur wrote that the crowd turned on her "like a large animal, angry and unchained." Afterwards, the Secret Service took what she described as the "extraordinary" precaution of walking Tur to her car.
It was unlikely, Tur said, that any future attack by the candidate could be "as scary."
Trump has a history of lashing out at what he calls the "very, very dishonest" media, and a slew of reporters and publications have been denied access to Trump's campaign events, including The New York Times, BuzzFeed News, Telemundo, Politico and The Des Moines Register.
You do realize that this is the very attitude that is going to result in the failure to stop the emergence of a national populist party, right?
Who gives a fuck? Every country has their idiot fringe parties. This tendency is consistent throughout history. When countries become more progressive, there is always a trend where moderates leave a party for a more progressive party. This results in the original conservative party becoming even more conservative than before. This trend continues until you essentially have this rotten core of crazies, which is what we now have on our hands.
But this is normal and has happened to many more countries than our own. We're a bit behind, but we're making progress. Populist parties can exist, they just won't ever win anything.
The idea that "progressive" ideas are always good is precisely what gives those parties substantial power. It's pure arrogance to think that they can't win. Do you seriously think a slightly more level-headed Trump would have no chance of winning this election? Trump as is still has a reasonable chance of winning.
Trump has a reasonable chance of winning because 40% of the country would vote for a skunk so long as there is a (R) on the ballot. (the same going for Democrats).
And the plurality of Republican primary voters chose him.
If you want a non-US example, you can also look at Le Pen in France. Not winning but very likely to reach the runoff election and could potentially win a majority if things go south.
Basically the idea that populist ideas never win anything is fucking stupid and extremely arrogant.
More than 70 Republicans have signed an open letter to Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus urging him to stop spending any money to help Donald Trump win in November and shift those contributions to Senate and House races.
The letter comes as a number of Republican senators and high-profile GOP national security officials have come forward saying they cannot vote for Trump.
“We believe that Donald Trump’s divisiveness, recklessness, incompetence, and record-breaking unpopularity risk turning this election into a Democratic landslide, and only the immediate shift of all available RNC resources to vulnerable Senate and House races will prevent the GOP from drowning with a Trump-emblazoned anchor around its neck,” states a draft of the letter obtained by POLITICO. “This should not be a difficult decision, as Donald Trump’s chances of being elected president are evaporating by the day.”
Former Sen. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire and former Reps. Chris Shays of Connecticut, Tom Coleman of Missouri and Vin Weber of Minnesota are among the Republicans lending their name to the letter. Close to 20 of the co-signers are former RNC staffers, including Mindy Finn (former RNC chief digital strategist), Christine Iverson Gunderson (former RNC press secretary), Virginia Hume Onufer (former RNC deputy press secretary), Beth Miller (former RNC field communications division director), Heather Layman (former deputy press secretary), B. Jay Cooper (former RNC communications director under four chairmen) and Patrick Ruffini (former RNC ecampaign director).
Republican Andrew Weinstein, a vocal anti-Trump Republican, is one of the operatives organizing the letter, which began circulating earlier this week and is expected to be sent next week. Weinstein served as director of media relations for the Dole/Kemp presidential campaign and was deputy press secretary to then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
Weinstein said that the letter is coming from “People who want the party to protect its majorities in the Senate and the House. It’s not an endorsement of anybody.”
A spokesman for the RNC did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
EPT
