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More than three years after fleeing the United States with a massive cache of top-secret documents, former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden remains a federal fugitive, living in Moscow courtesy of President Vladimir Putin of Russia.
But Snowden — who is the subject of a new Oliver Stone biopic that hits movie theaters next month — is making the most of his exile: Over the past year, he has collected over $200,000 in fees for digital speaking appearances that have been arranged by one of the country’s elite speakers bureaus, according to a source close to Snowden who is intimately familiar with his business affairs. At least three of these paid speeches were hosted by public American universities, and documents obtained by Yahoo News highlight various concerns raised by college officials about paying Snowden.
The former intelligence analyst uses video chat technology to address audiences around the globe: In the last five months, a larger-than-life Snowden has appeared on giant screens to a sold-out audience at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, northern Europe’s largest music festival, a symposium on surveillance and civil rights in Tokyo, and Comic-Con in San Diego. In all of these cases, as with most of his appearances, sympathetic crowds greeted him with thunderous applause and praise for his decision to leak classified documents to journalists about U.S. surveillance programs.
“Arguing you don’t care about privacy because you’ve got nothing to hide is no different than saying that you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say,” Snowden, using one of his classic lines, last month told the Roskilde Festival in Denmark. After the crowd — reportedly Snowden’s largest ever — sang “Happy Birthday,” the 33-year-old said: “Everyone, thank you. Really. You guys staying with me… is overwhelming. But this is not about me. This is about us.”
The events promote Snowden’s credentials as a whistleblower whose disclosures triggered significant changes in the U.S. surveillance laws. And they come at a crucial moment for him. Timing their efforts to coincide with next month’s release of the Stone movie about his life, Snowden’s supporters are planning a major public relations campaign this fall to petition President Obama to grant him a full pardon before he leaves office.
(very long article)
Source
In case anyone's been wondering what he's been up to.
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On August 11 2016 18:57 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +More than three years after fleeing the United States with a massive cache of top-secret documents, former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden remains a federal fugitive, living in Moscow courtesy of President Vladimir Putin of Russia.
But Snowden — who is the subject of a new Oliver Stone biopic that hits movie theaters next month — is making the most of his exile: Over the past year, he has collected over $200,000 in fees for digital speaking appearances that have been arranged by one of the country’s elite speakers bureaus, according to a source close to Snowden who is intimately familiar with his business affairs. At least three of these paid speeches were hosted by public American universities, and documents obtained by Yahoo News highlight various concerns raised by college officials about paying Snowden.
The former intelligence analyst uses video chat technology to address audiences around the globe: In the last five months, a larger-than-life Snowden has appeared on giant screens to a sold-out audience at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, northern Europe’s largest music festival, a symposium on surveillance and civil rights in Tokyo, and Comic-Con in San Diego. In all of these cases, as with most of his appearances, sympathetic crowds greeted him with thunderous applause and praise for his decision to leak classified documents to journalists about U.S. surveillance programs.
“Arguing you don’t care about privacy because you’ve got nothing to hide is no different than saying that you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say,” Snowden, using one of his classic lines, last month told the Roskilde Festival in Denmark. After the crowd — reportedly Snowden’s largest ever — sang “Happy Birthday,” the 33-year-old said: “Everyone, thank you. Really. You guys staying with me… is overwhelming. But this is not about me. This is about us.”
The events promote Snowden’s credentials as a whistleblower whose disclosures triggered significant changes in the U.S. surveillance laws. And they come at a crucial moment for him. Timing their efforts to coincide with next month’s release of the Stone movie about his life, Snowden’s supporters are planning a major public relations campaign this fall to petition President Obama to grant him a full pardon before he leaves office.
(very long article) SourceIn case anyone's been wondering what he's been up to.
Making decent money from speaking fees while having to probably spend the rest of your life living in hiding doesn't seem like the good deal the opening of the quote tries to make it sound.
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On August 11 2016 19:06 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 18:57 LegalLord wrote:More than three years after fleeing the United States with a massive cache of top-secret documents, former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden remains a federal fugitive, living in Moscow courtesy of President Vladimir Putin of Russia.
But Snowden — who is the subject of a new Oliver Stone biopic that hits movie theaters next month — is making the most of his exile: Over the past year, he has collected over $200,000 in fees for digital speaking appearances that have been arranged by one of the country’s elite speakers bureaus, according to a source close to Snowden who is intimately familiar with his business affairs. At least three of these paid speeches were hosted by public American universities, and documents obtained by Yahoo News highlight various concerns raised by college officials about paying Snowden.
The former intelligence analyst uses video chat technology to address audiences around the globe: In the last five months, a larger-than-life Snowden has appeared on giant screens to a sold-out audience at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, northern Europe’s largest music festival, a symposium on surveillance and civil rights in Tokyo, and Comic-Con in San Diego. In all of these cases, as with most of his appearances, sympathetic crowds greeted him with thunderous applause and praise for his decision to leak classified documents to journalists about U.S. surveillance programs.
“Arguing you don’t care about privacy because you’ve got nothing to hide is no different than saying that you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say,” Snowden, using one of his classic lines, last month told the Roskilde Festival in Denmark. After the crowd — reportedly Snowden’s largest ever — sang “Happy Birthday,” the 33-year-old said: “Everyone, thank you. Really. You guys staying with me… is overwhelming. But this is not about me. This is about us.”
The events promote Snowden’s credentials as a whistleblower whose disclosures triggered significant changes in the U.S. surveillance laws. And they come at a crucial moment for him. Timing their efforts to coincide with next month’s release of the Stone movie about his life, Snowden’s supporters are planning a major public relations campaign this fall to petition President Obama to grant him a full pardon before he leaves office.
(very long article) SourceIn case anyone's been wondering what he's been up to. Making decent money from speaking fees while having to probably spend the rest of your life living in hiding doesn't seem like the good deal the opening of the quote tries to make it sound.
Yeah, I agree. $200,000 isnt really that much considering all the things he has probably lost.
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On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:On August 11 2016 10:24 OuchyDathurts wrote:
ROFL its official. He's trying to lose the election. There is no other explanation.
Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary...
Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive.
Iraq,libia.
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Oh yes, Obama and Hillary created Iraq, that's far more reasonable.
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On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia.
Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton.
ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS.
We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous.
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On August 11 2016 13:16 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 13:08 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 13:03 IgnE wrote:On August 11 2016 12:58 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 12:40 IgnE wrote:On August 11 2016 11:34 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then. + Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands. So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though. It's hard to be wrong on an issue of interpretation. Does anyone here know what cuckold meant in 1900? Maybe cuckservative is an amalgam of the meaning from 1800 and a certain meaning of conservative from 2016. Maybe not everyone using the term is as well-versed in BDSM culture as you Kwark. The SPLC explanation just doesn't work. It doesn't make sense for the cucks to be cuckolded by the rapist blacks and Mexicans because the point of it is that the wife willingly cucks the husband so if the blacks and Mexicans are rapists then the entire thing falls apart. Obviously you can have different interpretations but the SPLC race one isn't internally consistent. Cuckolding didn't originally have a point, man. Cuckold wasn't always a developed fetish like it is now. The Miller in Chaucer's Tales was a cuckold. The original, dictionary definition of a cuckold was a man who (probably unknowingly) was being cheated on by his wife. I imagine it also works for scenarios in which the wife is a less-willing participant, like a slave wife being raped by the master. edit: So obviously the fear of actually being cuckolded against your will is a powerful psychological force here. There's a difference between a guy who jacks off to cuckold porn and would never want his wife to actually be fucked by another guy and a real cuckold fetishist. SPLC is talking about those afraid people. That has nothing to do with the appearance of it as a meme among Trumpers though. There is no nuance there. It's just "you're weak and your wife fantasies about being with me and you probably fantasize about her being with me too". That's the entire of it. I don't know. I think it's used a lot of different ways, depending who is hurling the insults. The things Ben Shapiro gets called: Show nested quote +
I spent the bulk of my speech talking about how racial diversity was irrelevant -- diversity of viewpoint mattered. This was enough to drive chaos and insanity at the school for months. Apparently, quoting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. -- which I did during the speech -- makes me a "neo-KKK member."
Meanwhile, David Duke, former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard, has labeled me an enemy of the KKK. I've been hit daily on Twitter by certain alt-right white supremacist Donald Trump supporters labeling me a "cuck" -- a weak-kneed leftist who wants to watch his wife copulate with a black man. Prominent Breitbart News columnist Milo Yiannopoulos tweeted a picture of a black child at me upon my announcement of the birth of my second child. The neo-Nazi Daily Stormer routinely attacks me. Some of Trump's alt-right fans tweeted that I, along with my wife and two children, should be sent to the gas chambers.
Notes from a Neo Nazi Cuckservativeedit Other white supremacists talk about how white evangelicals cuck their own families by adopting black babies- very clearly using the term racially. It might not be inherently racial, but it can and is wielded racially. I suspect it's a rather versatile insult in the double meaning department. It comes from a nasty attitude whatever the meaning.
Wow this is nasty. I've already gave my point of view on this retardness that is Milo but damn sending a black baby photo is so stupidly racist.
And this Ben Shapiro guy was pro Cruz, it's a stupidity contest.
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On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq.
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On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq.
A retreat that was agreed to under Bush and was pushed for by the Iraqi government.
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On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq.
What you were meaning to say is: by retreating US troops according to the "schedule" that someone else put up. Guess who it was. Yes, correct. Bush. And on top of that, the Iraqi Government, which stated that it would not grant US soldiers any immunity anymore.
It's utter, utter bullshit to call out Obama because he didn't clean up the clusterfuck that Bush left behind.
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On August 11 2016 21:56 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq. A retreat that was agreed to under Bush and was pushed for by the Iraqi government.
ISIS also got its foot hold in Syria and pushed its way into Iraq. We would still have ISIS even if there were troops in Iraq. An no one is lining up to put troops on the ground in Syria.
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On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq.
The US troops stayed in Iraq a whole decade. What was the plan, to make Iraq the 52nd state of the US?
I get your point, but still, it's really, really rich from Republicans to blame Obama for the utter mess they made.
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One could make the point though that it wasn't Bush either, but US intelligence services.
That's what i personally think. Starting all the way back in the 80s in Afghanistan.
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On August 11 2016 17:30 LegalLord wrote:
Generally people who are in a position of influence, such as the nominee of a major party, should be careful about what they say because their words will have a strong influence on other people.
I guess being the head of a multi-billion dollar company didn't teach Trump that lesson. That or he doesn't care.
Being the head a multi billion dollar company which he basically has unilateral control over - I don't know the capitalization structure, but likely the Trump family owns like 80% of voting rights. He can do what he wants and say what he wants and no one is going to disagree, except on small things (maybe lets go with this brand of coffee in the breakroom) or where it would materially affect the business (maybe we shouldn't build Trump ski resort in Death Valley). The rest they rationalize as "Donald being Donald". A exec who doesn't hold that sort of power position couldn't get away with the sort of stuff he has.
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On August 11 2016 22:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq. The US troops stayed in Iraq a whole decade. What was the plan, to make Iraq the 52nd state of the US? I get your point, but still, it's really, really rich from Republicans to blame Obama for the utter mess they made.
Trump blames both Obama and Bush but since Jeb is out of the race Trump has no reason to attack Bushes.
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On August 11 2016 22:00 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq. What you were meaning to say is: by retreating US troops according to the "schedule" that someone else put up. Guess who it was. Yes, correct. Bush. And on top of that, the Iraqi Government, which stated that it would not grant US soldiers any immunity anymore. It's utter, utter bullshit to call out Obama because he didn't clean up the clusterfuck that Bush left behind. wiki In late April 2007 Congress passed a supplementary spending bill for Iraq that set a deadline for troop withdrawal but President Bush vetoed this bill, citing his concerns about setting a withdrawal deadline.[8][9][10] The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory" ...On 27 February 2009, at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, President Barack Obama announced his revision to the original date of withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. The revision was to extend the original date of 30 June 2009 for an additional 10 months, to 31 August 2010. After which all but a "transitional force" of 35,000 to 50,000 troops would be withdrawn from the Middle Eastern nation. President Obama reaffirmed commitment to the original complete withdrawal date of 31 December 2011, set by the agreement between the Bush Administration and the Iraqi government.[28] President Obama defined the task of the transitional force as "training, equipping, and advising Iraqi Security Forces as long as they remain non-sectarian; conducting targeted counter-terrorism missions; and protecting our ongoing civilian and military efforts within Iraq". Iraq had no saying the the matter; the withdrawal happened because public perception of the Iraq war was changing.
Obama could do whatever the fuck he wanted in Iraq; he could've kept those 50.000 indefinitely for ex.; he also knew about ISIS(obviously).
he didn't started it but sure as hell he let it loose.
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Your own source references the original agreement between Bush and the government of Iraq...to say that the Iraqi government had no say in the matter is abjectly incorrect, particularly given what you've cited.
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Right, we could just trample over the sovereignty of Iraq... again. That would do wonders for the situation!
Try reading the Status of Forces Agreement you referenced.
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On August 11 2016 22:09 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 22:00 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 21:51 xM(Z wrote:On August 11 2016 20:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 11 2016 20:04 pmh wrote:On August 11 2016 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 11 2016 10:33 Falling wrote:Well, I guess he can grab up the Alex Jones followers, NWO conspiracy theorists, and Obama is the Anti-Christ crowd with that sort of rhetoric... although given the fact that Trump is part of the moneyed elite, I'm not sure why Trump isn't considered part of the NWO. Maybe not enough Jewish connections. Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders of ISIS? I guess that justifies Trump's earlier remark about shooting Hillary... Not the founders but they did create the environment in which isis could thrive. Iraq,libia. Sure, the rise if ISIS has nothing to do with the decision to illegally invade Iraq with false pretense and put the whole region in utter chaos. It's not someone like, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and their bunch of hacks who would be responsible, it's clearly Obama and Clinton. ISIS was born from the utter weakness of the Iraqi state and the idiotic decision from Bush administration to liquidate the Baas party, leading to the insurrection from former iraqi officials that eventually became ISIS. We get you don't like Obama, but don't be ridiculous. there's a difference between ideologically creating ISIS by invading Iraq and practically letting it loose in the Middle East by retreating US "peacekeepers"(forces) from Iraq. What you were meaning to say is: by retreating US troops according to the "schedule" that someone else put up. Guess who it was. Yes, correct. Bush. And on top of that, the Iraqi Government, which stated that it would not grant US soldiers any immunity anymore. It's utter, utter bullshit to call out Obama because he didn't clean up the clusterfuck that Bush left behind. wiki Show nested quote + In late April 2007 Congress passed a supplementary spending bill for Iraq that set a deadline for troop withdrawal but President Bush vetoed this bill, citing his concerns about setting a withdrawal deadline.[8][9][10] The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory" ... Show nested quote +On 27 February 2009, at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, President Barack Obama announced his revision to the original date of withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. The revision was to extend the original date of 30 June 2009 for an additional 10 months, to 31 August 2010. After which all but a "transitional force" of 35,000 to 50,000 troops would be withdrawn from the Middle Eastern nation. President Obama reaffirmed commitment to the original complete withdrawal date of 31 December 2011, set by the agreement between the Bush Administration and the Iraqi government.[28] President Obama defined the task of the transitional force as "training, equipping, and advising Iraqi Security Forces as long as they remain non-sectarian; conducting targeted counter-terrorism missions; and protecting our ongoing civilian and military efforts within Iraq". Iraq had no saying the the matter; the withdrawal happened because public perception of the Iraq war was changing. Obama could do whatever the fuck he wanted in Iraq; he could've kept those 50.000 indefinitely for ex.; he also knew about ISIS(obviously). he didn't started it but sure as hell he let it loose.
From the same wiki.
With the collapse of the discussions about extending the stay of any U.S. troops beyond 2011, where they would not be granted any immunity from the Iraqi government, on 21 October 2011, President Obama announced at a White House press conference that all remaining U.S. troops and trainers would leave Iraq by the end of the year as previously scheduled, bringing the U.S. mission in Iraq to an end. The last American soldier to die in Iraq before the withdrawal was killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad on 14 November.
Also:
The US and Iraq were in "full agreement" on how to move forward, Mr Obama said, adding: "The US leaves Iraq with our heads held high."
The US declared the end of its combat mission in Iraq in 2010. The deadline for complete troop withdrawal by end of 2011 was set during former President George W Bush's term in office.
However, the issue of a full pullout had been the subject of an ongoing debate.
Iraqi leaders had wanted 5,000 US troops to remain in a training capacity. But those trainers would not have received immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.
That's what Iraq wanted. 5000 troops as coaches. But clearly, Iraq didn't want the US troops to leave.
edit: also, what you're saying essentially is, that Obama didn't spend enough billions to still not being able to stop ISIS since it didn't even originate in Iraq to clean up the clusterfuck of Bushes administration. Got it.
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