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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 11 2016 11:11 Hexe wrote:Trump is trying to push aside his earlier clinton judge remark, but he is right in a sense. isis spread like wildfire after the arab spring. They had no better conditioned ground to grow than the one our president oversaw. Obama pulled out of Iraq, in what many consider a political move during his second presidential campaign. And when they first sprouted, he did nothing. His entire foreign policy in the middle east is to have as little involvement as possible. . . he thought that they would find their niche alongside of the taliban and nothing more. Just last week they captured three thousand fleeing civilians. + Show Spoiler +
that many consider it a political move doesn't mean they're right. It was the logical outcome of the deal Bush made about when we'd leave.
and for the most part; staying out of it has much merit as a policy, most of the groups in syria aren't a problem for us, only this one is.
It's also not like there were clearly better options. It's more often a refusal to accept that bad things happen, and sometimes there are no good choices; at least that's my perception of some of the criticisms.
Being right in some sense also doesn't excuse very poor, offensive, and slanderous choice of words.
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On August 11 2016 11:19 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 11:11 Hexe wrote:Trump is trying to push aside his earlier clinton judge remark, but he is right in a sense. isis spread like wildfire after the arab spring. They had no better conditioned ground to grow than the one our president oversaw. Obama pulled out of Iraq, in what many consider a political move during his second presidential campaign. And when they first sprouted, he did nothing. His entire foreign policy in the middle east is to have as little involvement as possible. . . he thought that they would find their niche alongside of the taliban and nothing more. Just last week they captured three thousand fleeing civilians. + Show Spoiler + that many consider it a political move doesn't mean they're right. It was the logical outcome of the deal Bush made about when we'd leave. and for the most part; staying out of it has much merit as a policy, most of the groups in syria aren't a problem for us, only this one is. It's also not like there were clearly better options. It's more often a refusal to accept that bad things happen, and sometimes there are no good choices; at least that's my perception of some of the criticisms. Being right in some sense also doesn't excuse very poor, offensive, and slanderous choice of words.
obama pulled out of iraq, because he claimed it was secure. now half of iraq and the edges of bordering countries are under the power of a terrorist organization. that can only be described as a failure. and on top of that terrorist attacks have increased tenfold across the globe in western countries.
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United States42691 Posts
On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then.
+ Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands.
So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though.
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Ofc it's obvious that he means Obama's policies indirectly created ISIS and that Obama is not literally the creator.
Doesn't make it any less stupid when he says it 4 times in a row without once saying it was indirect.
His penance for hyperbole is not a good trait to have in a president.
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On August 11 2016 10:37 LegalLord wrote:
That Trump can be the wealthiest presidential candidate in history, and still have people who see him as the anti-establishment candidate, is certainly one of life's greatest ironies.
Because money per se doesn't mean you're a career political insider. Look at Ross Perot.
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Canada11350 Posts
On August 11 2016 11:38 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 10:37 LegalLord wrote:
That Trump can be the wealthiest presidential candidate in history, and still have people who see him as the anti-establishment candidate, is certainly one of life's greatest ironies. Because money per se doesn't mean you're a career political insider. Look at Ross Perot.
That may be, but Trump is not Perot. Maybe he's not quite like the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, or George Soros, but... well in Trump's own words during a speech he gave today... he was an insider, but he's running as an outsider. How you do that I don't know. If there's one part of the Trump campaign that could be considered brilliant it's that- saying you were an insider, but not to worry, you are now an outsider and running as one.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I just remember that exchange between Cruz and Trump, where Trump was being criticized for donating to Hillary, then he mentioned that he donated to Cruz as well. The implications of that are really quite hilarious if you think about it.
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Trump pitches himself as an insider to power but an outsider to politics (and politicians don't have power in his eyes). This resonates a lot with people who hate politicians and see them as buying into PC bullshit but want to satisfy their innate draw towards powerful people.
Plus there's a pretty substantial belief in the conservative base that rich and powerful people are good people that the politicians are holding back. Or maybe it's more a belief that as long as we let the rich and powerful people maximize their greed we'll all be better off, regardless of if they're good people.
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Trump is the nouveau riche. He's the rich guy that the other cool rich kids didn't want to hang around with. Given that we were just talking about sexual inferiority this kind of outsider attitude is a big thing that unites his supporters as well. They're the guys nobody else wants to touch with a ten foot pole. That's why his supporters are saying that "he's like us". Bloomberg was using this exact point at the Dem convention.
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On August 11 2016 11:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then. + Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands. So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though.
It's hard to be wrong on an issue of interpretation. Does anyone here know what cuckold meant in 1900? Maybe cuckservative is an amalgam of the meaning from 1800 and a certain meaning of conservative from 2016.
Maybe not everyone using the term is as well-versed in BDSM culture as you Kwark.
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Canada11350 Posts
On August 11 2016 07:34 oBlade wrote:
Captured.
I guess this doesn't work like it does in Mission Impossible. If they ever started doing proper parody films like Hot Shots rather than the lame FillintheBlank (Epic etc) Movies, this Trump Tower climb has got to be a gag, where there's all this epic music as he is climbing, pan up, he's several stories up and security is waiting for him on the next level, try and shuffle over and they easily reposition before he even gets there.
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'cuck' is not a racial slur wth
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United States42691 Posts
On August 11 2016 12:40 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 11:34 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then. + Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands. So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though. It's hard to be wrong on an issue of interpretation. Does anyone here know what cuckold meant in 1900? Maybe cuckservative is an amalgam of the meaning from 1800 and a certain meaning of conservative from 2016. Maybe not everyone using the term is as well-versed in BDSM culture as you Kwark.
The SPLC explanation just doesn't work. It doesn't make sense for the cucks to be cuckolded by the rapist blacks and Mexicans because the point of it is that the wife willingly cucks the husband so if the blacks and Mexicans are rapists then the entire thing falls apart. Obviously you can have different interpretations but the SPLC race one isn't internally consistent.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I always thought that it was a direct usage of "cuckold" in the archaic sense. I should have known that that would be too weak a term for 4chan-esque insults.
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On August 11 2016 12:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 12:40 IgnE wrote:On August 11 2016 11:34 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then. + Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands. So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though. It's hard to be wrong on an issue of interpretation. Does anyone here know what cuckold meant in 1900? Maybe cuckservative is an amalgam of the meaning from 1800 and a certain meaning of conservative from 2016. Maybe not everyone using the term is as well-versed in BDSM culture as you Kwark. The SPLC explanation just doesn't work. It doesn't make sense for the cucks to be cuckolded by the rapist blacks and Mexicans because the point of it is that the wife willingly cucks the husband so if the blacks and Mexicans are rapists then the entire thing falls apart. Obviously you can have different interpretations but the SPLC race one isn't internally consistent.
Cuckolding didn't originally have a point, man. Cuckold wasn't always a developed fetish like it is now. The Miller in Chaucer's Tales was a cuckold. The original, dictionary definition of a cuckold was a man who (probably unknowingly) was being cheated on by his wife. I imagine it also works for scenarios in which the wife is a less-willing participant, like a slave wife being raped by the master.
edit: So obviously the fear of actually being cuckolded against your will is a powerful psychological force here. There's a difference between a guy who jacks off to cuckold porn and would never want his wife to actually be fucked by another guy and a real cuckold fetishist. SPLC is talking about those afraid people.
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United States42691 Posts
It's just "you're weak, unmanly, unable to defend your principles, land, women etc and the ultimate symbol of that is that your woman will choose a superior man over you". It's the overlap of /r/TheRedPill who subscribe to the notion that women are essentially mindless slot machines programmed by their ovaries to reward the alpha and internet anonymous youtube comment racist edgelords. In their minds they are the alpha who the women will naturally be drawn to once the women learn to fully appreciate the value of a good neckbeard while anyone who compromises or thinks issues are in any way more complicated than they do is a cuck, a beta whose women will inevitably leave once they realize that the cuck doesn't even own a fedora.
Fortunately the vast majority of conservatives do not subscribe to this mentality. It's an internet subculture meme gone bad.
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It's funny to me how we've reached a point where both candidates actually saying things ends up damaging their own campaigns, so it's become a race to see who can keep their damn mouth shut for the longest. And Trump seems to be losing.
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well yeah, that's exactly my point. "cucks" (aka betas, those people we Real Conservatives consider not real men) don't actually enjoy the hypothetical cuckolding. they are just regular dudes getting cuckolded against their wills
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United States42691 Posts
On August 11 2016 13:03 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 12:58 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 12:40 IgnE wrote:On August 11 2016 11:34 KwarK wrote:On August 11 2016 11:12 m4ini wrote:On August 11 2016 11:08 Nyxisto wrote:Yes. SP Law centerIt's strongly related to the idea of impotent white guys having their women taken away by black guys. That's pretty "buzzfeedy". Cuckold simply means you get turned on by having your wife drilled by someone else. That's it. There's no "black dude" in there. edit: of course, buzzfeed made up their own definition of the term. I guess that's a racial slur then. + Show Spoiler [cuckolding] +So in the bdsm world the cuckold fetish usually involves a degree of humiliation and inversion of typical cultural norms. That's what distinguishes it from hotwifing which is a subset of swinging in which just the wife plays. Cuckolding isn't just about the wife getting her rocks off, it's about the man being an inferior man, if that makes sense. In the US this often includes race play because of the black dick stereotype, the perceived animalistic nature of blacks, because interracial sex is still taboo and because it inverts the normal white supremacy cultural norm. If it's humiliating for a wife to choose another man over her husband then it's double humiliating for her to choose a black guy or whatever.
However this is somewhat unique to the US and the cultural context of race in the US whereas cuckolding is worldwide so they're wrong there.
Also it ignores how d/s dynamics typically work, it's generally about the husband getting what he needs out of it, he's topping from the bottom if that makes sense. This idea of the woman + black lover walking all over the submissive white husband is silly, they're generally going to be putting on a scene for his pleasure.
The way Trump people use it also generally ignores that humiliation/submission fetishes typically go hand in hand with extreme dominance and success in the vanilla world. The idea is that all the white male SJWs are "betas" who cannot get what they want through attracting women and power by their sheer natural manliness and as such will inevitably be exploited by the media while their women, who cannot help their base animal instincts, leave them for superior specimens. The reality in the kink world is that it would be Ivana Trump who would be fucking Barack while calling Donald inadequate so that he could explore his own feelings of inadequacy in the safe space of the bedroom while the white SJW dudes are at home and generally well adjusted.
That article also ignores the fact that the Trumpers typically see themselves as alphas, although to paraphrase Tywin Lannister, any man who must call himself alpha is no alpha. While there typically is a race element to the bull culture, particularly in the United States, the bull and the alpha are pretty entwined and the Trumpers certainly don't see themselves as Mexicans coming here to rape the women. They instead see themselves as the natural strong men who the unsatisfied wives of all those SJWs are picturing when they cuckold their husbands. So basically the Trumpers and the Southern Poverty Law Center are both wrong. There is a race element but there isn't in the way Trumpers use it. Trumpers see themselves as the alphas, not Mexican rapists. However the Trumpers are actually the betas who are massively overcompensating and really drinking /r/theredpill Kool Aid. None of them are really cuckolds though because it takes a certain amount of success to become a cuckold and Trumpers typically don't fit the bill. Donald does though. It's hard to be wrong on an issue of interpretation. Does anyone here know what cuckold meant in 1900? Maybe cuckservative is an amalgam of the meaning from 1800 and a certain meaning of conservative from 2016. Maybe not everyone using the term is as well-versed in BDSM culture as you Kwark. The SPLC explanation just doesn't work. It doesn't make sense for the cucks to be cuckolded by the rapist blacks and Mexicans because the point of it is that the wife willingly cucks the husband so if the blacks and Mexicans are rapists then the entire thing falls apart. Obviously you can have different interpretations but the SPLC race one isn't internally consistent. Cuckolding didn't originally have a point, man. Cuckold wasn't always a developed fetish like it is now. The Miller in Chaucer's Tales was a cuckold. The original, dictionary definition of a cuckold was a man who (probably unknowingly) was being cheated on by his wife. I imagine it also works for scenarios in which the wife is a less-willing participant, like a slave wife being raped by the master. edit: So obviously the fear of actually being cuckolded against your will is a powerful psychological force here. There's a difference between a guy who jacks off to cuckold porn and would never want his wife to actually be fucked by another guy and a real cuckold fetishist. SPLC is talking about those afraid people.
That has nothing to do with the appearance of it as a meme among Trumpers though. There is no nuance there. It's just "you're weak and your wife fantasies about being with me and you probably fantasize about her being with me too". That's the entire of it.
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It's definitely stronger on the internet, but it's offline as well. Trump with his Kelly comments about her being on her period, calling some other woman a fat pig, Trump tweeting that Hillary can't satisfy her husband etc... this sexualized stuff is everywhere in this campaign. The guy literally tried to brag about his penis size during a presidential debate
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U6TN2bU.jpg)
