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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 02 2016 02:42 RoomOfMush wrote:
I am not entirely sure how the American presidential race works so can anybody tell me whether when Hillary wins now, does Bernie have a chance after 4 years? Or does Hillary automatically become the Democratic nominee after having been president?
It's almost a 0% chance if Hillary wins that she won't be the nominee in 4 years.
The last purposeful single term president I can remember was Polk in the 1830s, it's far easier to win as an incumbent so the party doesn't like giving up that advantage and will do everything they can to convince the person to run again unless they're insanely unpopular (ie 08 Bush level approval ratings).
It's not automatic, there have been challenges to many sitting presidents for the nomination, but they're rarely taken seriously.
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On August 02 2016 02:42 RoomOfMush wrote:
I am not entirely sure how the American presidential race works so can anybody tell me whether when Hillary wins now, does Bernie have a chance after 4 years? Or does Hillary automatically become the Democratic nominee after having been president?
bernie theoretically has a chance, but in practice probably won't.
If the incumbent president wants to run for reelection, and doesn't have terrible approval ratings, they're usually not challenged for the nomination.
If really unpopular then they sometimes are challenged for the nomination.
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On August 02 2016 02:44 farvacola wrote:
I went to high school with lots of people like the author of that letter. They never paid school any mind and then decided that their subsequent military career somehow gave them license to proselytize on the state of US politics and make broad, pointed proclamations aimed at those they disagree with. Bleh.
To quote my brother: Nothing makes people dumber than their superiors telling them they are better than the population they protect.
Though it takes a special flavor of asshole to tell parents of a dead soldier how their son would feel about them. Luckily most of the armed services seems to disagree with this asshole’s clearly uninformed opinion.
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I'm curious if it's only the firm never-trump posters here that are disgusted by this letter
Any of the people voting Trump over Clinton care to comment?
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On August 02 2016 02:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. Why?
The entire thing is an abomination and the man who wrote it should be ashamed of himself. But I bolded the most laughable line. That is a man jerking off his team and nothing more.
On August 02 2016 02:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ wow I got whiplash from that "what about muh police officers" straight into "it's not about service or sacrifice" Like make up your damn mind, are police officers and soldiers special snowflakes to be worshiped or not? If they are then we must always preface every sentence with veneration for them and we must respect the opinions of their relatives with solemn silence, even if they speak at the DNC. If they're not (and they're not) then why the hell are you bringing up the police? That entire piece is right wing straw talking point bingo. Although the practice of parading the families of the dead for political capital is pretty awful anyway. Unfortunately apparently someone somewhere must be eating that shit up because they're all doing it but he's right to point out that having a dead son doesn't give you any more credibility.
Kwark nailed it quite nicely
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On August 02 2016 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:44 farvacola wrote:
I went to high school with lots of people like the author of that letter. They never paid school any mind and then decided that their subsequent military career somehow gave them license to proselytize on the state of US politics and make broad, pointed proclamations aimed at those they disagree with. Bleh. Does that apply to Mr Khan?
Sure, but his words weren't very broad, they were mostly directed at one person.
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United States41988 Posts
On August 02 2016 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:44 farvacola wrote:
I went to high school with lots of people like the author of that letter. They never paid school any mind and then decided that their subsequent military career somehow gave them license to proselytize on the state of US politics and make broad, pointed proclamations aimed at those they disagree with. Bleh. Does that apply to Mr Khan?
Yes. They said "Trump hates Muslims. Trump supporters love the troops. What if one of the troops was a Muslim. What then!?!? Minds blown!" and dragged up a Muslim. The entire thing is lowest common denominator.
Then people like the author of the letter go
"how can you say you respect sacrifice if you didn't even preface your speech with "blue lives matter" and anyway I am soldier and as soldier I can say that we're not special, it is only police and soldiers who are special"
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On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there.
I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments
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On August 02 2016 02:48 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On August 02 2016 02:44 farvacola wrote:
I went to high school with lots of people like the author of that letter. They never paid school any mind and then decided that their subsequent military career somehow gave them license to proselytize on the state of US politics and make broad, pointed proclamations aimed at those they disagree with. Bleh. Does that apply to Mr Khan? Sure, but his words weren't very broad, they were mostly directed at one person.
Specifically Trump’s attack on Muslims and push for an immigration ban.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I don't think there's any way to say "you're wrong about your dead son" without coming off as a complete prick.
It of course doesn't mean the original speaker is automatically correct either.
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On August 02 2016 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/760147104476127232I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/gold-star-families-attack-trump-over-comments-about-ghazala-khan-n620671
The families of 17 service members who died fighting for the U.S. demanded an apology from Donald Trump on Monday, accusing him of "cheapening the sacrifice made by those we lost."
They said the Republican presidential nominee's suggestion that the Muslim mother of a U.S. soldier who died in Iraq had not "been allowed" to speak at the Democratic National Convention was akin to "attacking us."
A letter signed by the Gold Star families — the term for those who have lost loved ones during military service — also called Trump's comments "repugnant, and personally offensive."
"When you question a mother's pain, by implying that her religion, not her grief, kept her from addressing an arena of people, you are attacking us," the letter added. "When you say your job building buildings is akin to our sacrifice, you are attacking our sacrifice."
The letter was organized by Gold Star Mother Karen Meredith from VoteVets.org, an advocacy group that calls itself non-partisan but which has been described in the past as allied to Congressional Democrats. The Center for Responsive Politics says VoteVets.org is fueled "largely by social welfare organizations aligned with Democrats and millions of dollars given by unions."
Over the weekend, Trump questioned why Ghazala Khan stood by quietly as her husband Khizr Khan talked about their son Humayun at the DNC.
In the speech, Khan criticized Trump's policies and statements about Muslims. The real estate magnate "sacrificed nothing and no one," Khan said, and questioned whether the Republican had even read the U.S. Constitution.
The Khans' son, a U.S. Army captain, was killed by a car bomb in 2004 while guarding the gates of his base in Iraq, saving the lives of his fellow soldiers and civilians. He was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
Trump, who has called for Muslims to be barred from entering the country, responded to the speech by saying that maybe Ghazala Khan had "not been allowed to have anything to say."
Trump's comments go "beyond politics," according to the letter. "It is about a sense of decency. That kind decency you mock as 'political correctness.'"
It added: "We feel we must speak out and demand you apologize to the Khans, to all Gold Star families, and to all Americans for your offensive, and frankly anti-American, comments."
The letter's signatories were 10 families whose loved ones died in Iraq and one that lost a father in Vietnam.
And one of the nation's most prominent veterans groups -- the Veterans of Foreign Wars -- added its voice to the controversy Monday, calling Trump's criticisms of the Kahn family "out of bounds."
"Election year or not, the VFW will not tolerate anyone berating a Gold Star family member for exercising his or her right of speech or expression," said organization chief Brian Duffy in a statement. "There are certain sacrosanct subjects that no amount of wordsmithing can repair once crossed. Giving one's life to nation is the greatest sacrifice, followed closely by all Gold Star families, who have a right to make their voices heard."
Trump did not immediately respond to Monday's letter from the families. He previously hit back at criticism from the Khan family, saying he had "made a lot of sacrifices ... I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs."
The response has been negative. Trump has clearly picked the wrong fight.
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On August 02 2016 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/760147104476127232I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments
At this point it doesn't seem to matter. Either his shit don't stink to you and it never will under any circumstances or you despise him. I don't see anyone who thinks his poop smells like roses is going to suddenly jump ship, veteran or not. The Trump Train appears to be ride or die.
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Aha, but don't you all realize that this is exactly what Trump wanted all along! More media exposure and a distraction from Clinton....wait, she still got a poll bump from the DNC? Trump's belligerence is starting to catch up with him? Just you wait, he'll show you his brilliance soon enough!
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On August 02 2016 02:51 LegalLord wrote:
I don't think there's any way to say "you're wrong about your dead son" without coming off as a complete prick.
I think that's a good way to put it
On August 02 2016 02:55 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/760147104476127232I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments At this point it doesn't seem to matter. Either his shit don't stink to you and it never will under any circumstances or you despise him. I don't see anyone who thinks his poop smells like roses is going to suddenly jump ship, veteran or not. The Trump Train appears to be ride or die.
I don't think that's the case for anyone but the most diehard nevertrumpers/trumpfanatics
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On August 02 2016 02:55 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/760147104476127232I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments At this point it doesn't seem to matter. Either his shit don't stink to you and it never will under any circumstances or you despise him. I don't see anyone who thinks his poop smells like roses is going to suddenly jump ship, veteran or not. The Trump Train appears to be ride or die.
To a degree. Sure Trump keeps digging until all of a sudden he ends up offending another group of people and the media jumps on it and we move on to Trumps latest and greatest words. But the people he offended previously don't forget as easily as everyone else. He's slowly shaving and cutting off little bits of support.
On August 02 2016 02:51 LegalLord wrote:
I don't think there's any way to say "you're wrong about your dead son" without coming off as a complete prick.
It of course doesn't mean the original speaker is automatically correct either.
For sure. But there are a bajillion different ways to do it in a less offensive way, and I would prefer that a potential president find one of those. This isn't about PC or SJW or whatever, this is about common decency. There are many ways to express an opinion or thought to someone, some of them better than others - Trump just manages to consistently pick the poor ones.
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On August 02 2016 02:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:32 Plansix wrote:
Nothing gets this thread moving like GH’s claims that his opinions on the inter working of Sander’s mind are the TRUTH and all other opinions are delusional. You all act like it takes some grand workings to understand, Legal just explained it pretty simply. I just don't see why you all think you can convince people outside of Hillary's bubble that this isn't the case. EDIT: If Hillary and Bernie supporters were as closely aligned as Hillary supporters pretend, Bernie giving over his fundraising machine would be expected and embraced. Ignoring that or papering over it with statements like "he's not a democrat so of course he doesn't want to share" isn't helping.
I don't know about you, but most Hilary supporters have always said that Bernie doesn't actually like helping progressives. Him not wanting to fund raise is just more examples that prove he doesn't actually care about making a difference, just in making money. He just happens to be very bad at it.
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On August 02 2016 02:51 LegalLord wrote:
I don't think there's any way to say "you're wrong about your dead son" without coming off as a complete prick.
It of course doesn't mean the original speaker is automatically correct either.
certainly difficult to do. though I think some way could do it and only come off as rather a prick rather than a complete prick.
It also helps if you've got a much better case about them being wrong than that jerk had.
I've done enough roleplaying as a courtier (l5r), that I'm sure with some serious effort, I could write up a letter that was only moderately prickish.
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On August 02 2016 02:57 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:55 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:On August 02 2016 02:37 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 02 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Dear Mr. Khan,
I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation. By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.
As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger. The United States has a military comprised of volunteers. Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve. There is not a single service member who has been forced into service. It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights. I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”
Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation? How about Mr. Obama? Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming. Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed? Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself. As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own. He was not forced to serve.
I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump. Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers? Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful. The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements. One vote is as valuable as another. That sir, is why our Country is great. Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.
To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored. I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people. In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car. Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…
As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.
Respectfully,
Chris Mark
US Marine and Navy Veteran.
https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/ Absolutely disgusting letter you've quoted there. https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/760147104476127232I wonder how other veterans feel about Trump's comments At this point it doesn't seem to matter. Either his shit don't stink to you and it never will under any circumstances or you despise him. I don't see anyone who thinks his poop smells like roses is going to suddenly jump ship, veteran or not. The Trump Train appears to be ride or die. To a degree. Sure Trump keeps digging until all of a sudden he ends up offending another group of people and the media jumps on it and we move on to Trumps latest and greatest words. But the people he offended previously don't forget as easily as everyone else. He's slowly shaving and cutting off little bits of support.
Eh, we'll see. So far his bombast has worked a charm. He beat a field of 16 was it? All the while spending like 8 bucks to do it? In theory it won't work so well in the general but he flipped the script on the primary. I'd say he'd be 100000000000000% doomed in the general if he was against anyone but his opponent. Trump is seriously the only candidate Hillary would have a chance vs and Hillary is the only candidate Trump has a chance vs. We truly live in the end times friends.
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On August 02 2016 02:56 farvacola wrote:
Aha, but don't you all realize that this is exactly what Trump wanted all along! More media exposure and a distraction from Clinton....wait, she still got a poll bump from the DNC? Trump's belligerence is starting to catch up with him? Just you wait, he'll show you his brilliance soon enough!
Hillary's numbers practically didn't move through the convention. She's actually lower than she was (on RCP) than she started July.
The "bump" 538 is referring to is not a bump in Hillary's support but a drop in trumps support, which is still much higher than it was just before the convention. It takes some impressive gymnastics to read that as Hillary getting a better bump than Trump out of the convention, but since 538's already done it we can expect folks to line up behind it. At least Gor kept it real a little.
On August 02 2016 02:59 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 02:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 02 2016 02:32 Plansix wrote:
Nothing gets this thread moving like GH’s claims that his opinions on the inter working of Sander’s mind are the TRUTH and all other opinions are delusional. You all act like it takes some grand workings to understand, Legal just explained it pretty simply. I just don't see why you all think you can convince people outside of Hillary's bubble that this isn't the case. EDIT: If Hillary and Bernie supporters were as closely aligned as Hillary supporters pretend, Bernie giving over his fundraising machine would be expected and embraced. Ignoring that or papering over it with statements like "he's not a democrat so of course he doesn't want to share" isn't helping. I don't know about you, but most Hilary supporters have always said that Bernie doesn't actually like helping progressives. Him not wanting to fund raise is just more examples that prove he doesn't actually care about making a difference, just in making money. He just happens to be very bad at it.
I know corporate media hasn't done a great job of sharing information around this, but he's actually doing the opposite of what you're saying. He's dedicating his fundraising machine to supporting progressives across the country instead of Hillary. The absolute least informed attack on Bernie is on his honesty or desire to make change, that comes off as the most politically deaf attack possible.
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On August 02 2016 02:56 farvacola wrote:
Aha, but don't you all realize that this is exactly what Trump wanted all along! More media exposure and a distraction from Clinton....wait, she still got a poll bump from the DNC? Trump's belligerence is starting to catch up with him? Just you wait, he'll show you his brilliance soon enough!
Much like McCarthy before him, Trump’s mistake was picking a fight with someone in the military and their family.
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EPT
