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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4603

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7887 Posts
August 01 2016 06:23 GMT
#92041
On August 01 2016 00:39 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2016 18:45 Ravianna26 wrote:
Clinton using that poor man's son's death to attempt to manipulate people into voting for her is disgraceful and yet another reason not to vote for her. If I wasn't voting for Trump I'd write in Ben Carson or Ted Cruz. Clinton is worse than what people falsely accuse Trump of being.


Holy shit be more of a hypocrite. Trump "used" stuff like that several times during the RNC

I think you misunderstood me. Just reread my post. That's the the right wing narrative
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
August 01 2016 07:49 GMT
#92042
On August 01 2016 11:41 LegalLord wrote:
To those who support Hillary as a candidate who will "hold the line" on progressive social issues, I have a question for you. Say she does a really botched job as president, something akin to Bush. This would likely fracture the Democratic base and set the goals of the progressive movements back a decade. Do you think this is a risk worth considering when trying to make a "vote for the lesser of two evils" argument? If the representative of the progressive movement is bad and undermines the cause, isn't that worse than 1-2 terms for the opposition?


Fracturing the democratic vote would be an improvement to US politics, especially assuming that the republic party is going through the same thing (didn't a lot of republicans basically abandon the party for this election after Trump?). Four or five major parties would be much better than what you currently have. Maybe some revisions in the various election processes of the states and whatnot would be good to go along with that.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 01 2016 08:11 GMT
#92043
The current FPTP system basically guarantees there will only be two parties. I think of the parties more as coalitions of state parties than a single party in and of itself. Under that interpretation, the criticism of not liking someone because "they aren't long standing members of the party" is a bit ridiculous.

Weird system, but it's what we have and there is little political will to change it. If a change came to a vote it would fail.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23218 Posts
August 01 2016 08:28 GMT
#92044
Even if we're stuck with two parties for the foreseeable future, it doesn't mean they are going to be the same two parties as we know them now.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
August 01 2016 08:46 GMT
#92045
On August 01 2016 11:41 LegalLord wrote:
To those who support Hillary as a candidate who will "hold the line" on progressive social issues, I have a question for you. Say she does a really botched job as president, something akin to Bush. This would likely fracture the Democratic base and set the goals of the progressive movements back a decade. Do you think this is a risk worth considering when trying to make a "vote for the lesser of two evils" argument? If the representative of the progressive movement is bad and undermines the cause, isn't that worse than 1-2 terms for the opposition?


I personally think a Bernie presidency would have been more hurtful to progressive causes than either Bush or Reagan's presidencies. So I'm super happy that we got the only sane candidate in the progressive ticket.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
August 01 2016 08:47 GMT
#92046
On August 01 2016 17:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
Even if we're stuck with two parties for the foreseeable future, it doesn't mean they are going to be the same two parties as we know them now.


We are stuck with two amalgamations of many parties. The DNC and the RNC represents organized groups of many many parties all uniting in order to pass something whose average is better than the opponent's average. This whole "Only 2 parties" bullshit is one of the worst mindsets in American politics.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 08:51:28
August 01 2016 08:51 GMT
#92047
On August 01 2016 15:06 MasterCynical wrote:
This is incredible. The entire US media is working to take down trump. I've never seen anything like this.

It's actually quite pathetic that they can't take him down even after months of large-scale coordinated smear campaigns.

[image loading]
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
August 01 2016 09:21 GMT
#92048
On August 01 2016 17:51 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2016 15:06 MasterCynical wrote:
This is incredible. The entire US media is working to take down trump. I've never seen anything like this.

It's actually quite pathetic that they can't take him down even after months of large-scale coordinated smear campaigns.

[image loading]



The difference between your 2 posters is the context of what they were doing. The RNC had someone on stage who wrongly blamed her sons death on Hilary which was shameful whereas Khan did not blame his sons death on Trump. His purpose was to showcase that there are Muslims in america who are good american and patriots and heroes who have been completely ignored. The response by Trump was probably more shameful than the actual speech itself.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 01 2016 10:38 GMT
#92049
Also the Clinton campaign didn't attempt to discredit or attack the her after her speech. Trumps response to the Khan's speech is the reason it has gotten so much attention.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 13:18:25
August 01 2016 13:18 GMT
#92050
On August 01 2016 17:51 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2016 15:06 MasterCynical wrote:
This is incredible. The entire US media is working to take down trump. I've never seen anything like this.

It's actually quite pathetic that they can't take him down even after months of large-scale coordinated smear campaigns.

[image loading]


Media is in panic mode, they've thrown all the shit they can think off at Trump and he keeps getting more popular.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 01 2016 13:20 GMT
#92051
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 01 2016 13:23 GMT
#92052
On August 01 2016 22:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/760086594858602496


"Donald Trump's word are terrible, rude and I condone them strongly. But just the words, Donald Trump is a good, genuine man at heart who occasionally misspeaks."
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 01 2016 13:24 GMT
#92053
In before Trump decides take a second shot at John Rambo McCain for being “disloyal”.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
August 01 2016 13:32 GMT
#92054
What is the date of the election? This thread is too anoying, leta just get it over with.
sorry for dem one liners
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 01 2016 13:34 GMT
#92055
November 8th, 2016.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 13:38:46
August 01 2016 13:35 GMT
#92056
So I tried to read up on what Khan/Trump actually said.. and Humayun Khan died in 2004.

So basically the parents stood in the DNC 12 years later saying Trump hasn't read the constitution and that his son would have never fought to defend the U.S. if he was president. I can't find the actual quote so if someone has it I'll replace it in.

Trump's reply was:

"Captain Humayun Khan was a hero to our country and we should honour all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe," he said.

"The real problem here are the radical Islamic terrorists who killed him, and the efforts of these radicals to enter our country to do us further harm."

But Mr Trump rejected Mr Khan's criticism.

"While I feel deeply for the loss of his son, Mr Khan, who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution, (which is false) and say many other inaccurate things," he said.

I honestly don't see how this is so terrible to say. Did I miss something?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 01 2016 13:42 GMT
#92057
On August 01 2016 22:35 GoTuNk! wrote:
So I tried to read up on what Khan/Trump actually said.. and Humayun Khan died in 2004.

So basically the parents stood in the DNC 12 years later saying Trump hasn't read the constitution and that his son would have never fought to defend the U.S. if he was president. I can't find the actual quote so if someone has it I'll replace it in.

Trump's reply was:

"Captain Humayun Khan was a hero to our country and we should honour all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe," he said.

"The real problem here are the radical Islamic terrorists who killed him, and the efforts of these radicals to enter our country to do us further harm."

But Mr Trump rejected Mr Khan's criticism.

"While I feel deeply for the loss of his son, Mr Khan, who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution, (which is false) and say many other inaccurate things," he said.

I honestly don't see how this is so terrible to say. Did I miss something?

It's the liberal echo chamber at its finest.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 01 2016 13:43 GMT
#92058
On August 01 2016 12:36 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2016 12:02 Nevuk wrote:
On August 01 2016 11:41 LegalLord wrote:
To those who support Hillary as a candidate who will "hold the line" on progressive social issues, I have a question for you. Say she does a really botched job as president, something akin to Bush. This would likely fracture the Democratic base and set the goals of the progressive movements back a decade. Do you think this is a risk worth considering when trying to make a "vote for the lesser of two evils" argument? If the representative of the progressive movement is bad and undermines the cause, isn't that worse than 1-2 terms for the opposition?

If the republican party didn't end under GW Bush then the democratic party isn't going to end under Clinton...

Republican party hasn't been able to push its presidential candidates with any success for the past 3 elections, and you'd be a fool not to think the major reason isn't Bush. They've pushed themselves into a corner where they need to embrace their radical elements just to stay politically relevant through midterm victories.

I wouldn't say that the party isn't in trouble. It would be worse for the Dems too because particularly ideologically "principled" Dems don't vote like Republicans do.

I'm not a fool, and I don't think the major reason Republicans haven't been winning presidential elections is Bush. Maybe for the first one in '08, but after that; and, come to think of it, we've only actually completed 2 elections since Bush. The first is right after Bush (wherein yeah the anti-bush vote woudl do a lot) then in '12, wherein Incumbent presidents tend to do well, and the Reps did reasonably. And now, where the election isn't completed yet.

I prefer this article's explanations:
http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-political-party-success-president-governor-congress-mayor.html
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 01 2016 13:43 GMT
#92059
the part where he suggested the mother wasnt allowed to speak cuz islam

and that hes made "the best" sacrifices
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 13:44:58
August 01 2016 13:43 GMT
#92060
On August 01 2016 22:35 GoTuNk! wrote:
So I tried to read up on what Khan/Trump actually said.. and Humayun Khan died in 2004.

So basically the parents stood in the DNC 12 years later saying Trump hasn't read the constitution and that his son would have never fought to defend the U.S. if he was president. I can't find the actual quote so if someone has it I'll replace it in.

Trump's reply was:

"Captain Humayun Khan was a hero to our country and we should honour all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe," he said.

"The real problem here are the radical Islamic terrorists who killed him, and the efforts of these radicals to enter our country to do us further harm."

But Mr Trump rejected Mr Khan's criticism.

"While I feel deeply for the loss of his son, Mr Khan, who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution, (which is false) and say many other inaccurate things," he said.

I honestly don't see how this is so terrible to say. Did I miss something?


No, there is no way you missing something. You are completely correct, Trump was totally respectful of the Khans and their son’s sacrifice and that is why the media and numerous members of the GOP are denouncing his statements. And members of the armed services as well.

Or those are some cherry picked quotes from a pile of garbage he has been spewing about them since they spoke. On top of wishing to physically assault some of the speakers at the DNC.

Edit: LOL, liberal echo chamber. This echo chamber has a lot of Republicans calling out Trump too.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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