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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4480

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-26 16:24:39
July 26 2016 16:22 GMT
#89581


What a disaster.

edit: Maybe today will be even worse.
Pre-emptive retaliatory de-escalation action
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
July 26 2016 16:22 GMT
#89582
Have people seen this? I mean, the hands-off president thing seems most likely if that person would somehow actually be in charge, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd really put his idea of business before his idea of presidency and serving the people in a quite aggressive and corrupt kind of way. Make some deals with mining, oil, weapon manufacturers or something like that.

Also the bit regarding "feelings" reveals to me that these people (like Newt Gingrich) are definitely not about serving the people, but about gaining power and wealth for themselves through politics. How can you just ignore statistics in such a manner? I suppose this happens everywhere though.

+ Show Spoiler +
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
July 26 2016 16:22 GMT
#89583
Yeah Putin preferring Trump because of NATO makes a whole lot of sense.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22485 Posts
July 26 2016 16:25 GMT
#89584
On July 27 2016 01:22 zeo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnhGMUKeq1A

What a disaster.

Ahh all those poor Berniebro's discovering that reality is not like a fairy tale.
Its sad to see young bright delusional minds crushed by the oppressive reality of the world.

Meh, they will be cynical conservatives in a few decades.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-26 16:27:44
July 26 2016 16:25 GMT
#89585
On July 27 2016 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 00:46 VayneAuthority wrote:
can we not link businessinsider, thats like posting buzzfeed as a credible source.


It's polling data from a third party, i.e. a university poll where you can actually read the original reports. They're linked in the article. Here: http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012/confirmed/
Please don't poison the well


nobody "just watches" the daily show if they are into politics. it's a stupidly designed poll.

and it's not like im biased either, it paints my people as the top of the food chain and the echo chambers as bumbling idiots.

I come in for the scraps
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
July 26 2016 16:28 GMT
#89586
If you get your news from comedy then your news source is literally a joke.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22485 Posts
July 26 2016 16:31 GMT
#89587
On July 27 2016 01:28 LegalLord wrote:
If you get your news from comedy then your news source is literally a joke.

People 'switched' to the Daily show simply because all the mainstream media was so shit.
America severely lacks an even remotely impartial actual news show.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 26 2016 16:31 GMT
#89588
On July 27 2016 01:28 LegalLord wrote:
If you get your news from comedy then your news source is literally a joke.

Not to mention horrifically skewed.
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9235 Posts
July 26 2016 16:33 GMT
#89589
On July 27 2016 01:22 zeo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnhGMUKeq1A

What a disaster.

edit: Maybe today will be even worse.

What's with all the crying Bernie bros in the crowd? That was strange
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2016 16:33 GMT
#89590
On July 27 2016 01:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 01:22 zeo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnhGMUKeq1A

What a disaster.

Ahh all those poor Berniebro's discovering that reality is not like a fairy tale.
Its sad to see young bright delusional minds crushed by the oppressive reality of the world.

Meh, they will be cynical conservatives in a few decades.

It sort of bothers me that people are mocking the girl crying because they candidate she thought would stand up for her lost. I’ll mock the people booing and heckling, but she is just doing her thing, by herself.

Someone pointed out that that we tell college students they can change the world and make it a better place. Then when they try, the media mocks them. I dislike the unreasonable demands and sort of jerky behavior of the some of Bernie’s supporters, but people do seem to get off on mocking them. I am guilty of that and its really shitty.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-26 16:43:28
July 26 2016 16:36 GMT
#89591
Probably one of the only things worse than persistent booing and heckling for rebuilding bridges is glorying in the suffering of your defeated opponents. Both Clinton and Sanders supporters did the latter far far too much in this primary campaign, it's like they don't even see each other as people anymore (and it's behind the transformation of a huge number of people from Sanders supporters to Clinton haters).
On July 27 2016 00:18 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 00:15 Doodsmack wrote:
On July 27 2016 00:10 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 00:04 Doodsmack wrote:
On July 27 2016 00:03 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 00:00 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On July 26 2016 23:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I am a bit surprised that people don't react a bit stronger at the fact that most experts think Russia is behind the DNC leak. The fact that Putin seems to be able to use his intelligence services to help Trump should be one hell of a huge red light for everyone.

I don't know, it seems huge to me, maybe I am wrong.


I suspect there's three reasons people aren't reacting:

1) They're not hearing about it through their personal media pipeline.
2) They don't view it as a red flag because they buy into some measure of the Putin-love Trump pushes despite his other statements on Russia.
3) They believe all the "experts" are having their opinions fabricated by a leftist or pro-Clinton agenda.


How about 4) They understand that the real story is in the content of the emails?


I get you don't want attention to be diverted from the content of the emails but I find it hard to believe you wouldn't think Russian intervention in our election is a big deal.


First, it is entirely speculative that the Russian government sanctioned this. I'll wait for the intelligence report before I make any conclusions. Second, it doesn't really surprise me that the Russians may be stirring up shit using the same tactics that our own intelligence services use. Third, and most importantly, it's not like this stuff is a bunch of baseless propaganda that's being spread around. Whoever did this has done a tremendous service to the Democrat Party and country as a whole.

I understand the need for Hillary and her cohort to deflect the damning content of the emails, but what they should be doing is spending more time owning up to some big mistakes that have been made so as to satisfy the progressive wing of the party.


So if there were news reports that Russia had hacked the RNC in a similar manner, you would be all "hey let's wait for the intelligence report we won't get and it's for the good of the country anyway". I'm skeptical.


Let's just presume that the FBI holds a press conference this afternoon and says conclusively that the Russians are responsible for the hack. What exactly does that change? Hillary gets an additional talking point (Putin fears me [which is laughable for its own reasons]), but that's it.

And for the record, I've already stated that the RNC is guilty of the exact same thing that the DNC has been caught redhanded doing, so I'm not sure what you want from me.


I don't think it changes the nature of emails, but it does generate a new media thread that would be worth digging into a bit. I'd hope China (or whoever) hacking the Trump campaign to release money laundering or whatever would also get some coverage about the originator of the attack if it was identified, but I think most countries that would feel comfortable intervening probably prefer Trump over Clinton.

It also raises questions about trusting campaigns and parties in general with private data in a digital age.
Evotroid
Profile Joined October 2011
Hungary176 Posts
July 26 2016 16:37 GMT
#89592
Thanks for the suggestions, will check out.
To some others: I don't watch them to get the "news".
I lurk this thread for that. And because I feel like there is always a good 2-3 posters who should be banned from posting here, I hope it is kind of balanced.
And what's up with Putins Trump endorsement? I can only think of this whenever it comes up: southpark.cc.com
I got nothing.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
July 26 2016 16:37 GMT
#89593
On July 27 2016 01:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 01:28 LegalLord wrote:
If you get your news from comedy then your news source is literally a joke.

People 'switched' to the Daily show simply because all the mainstream media was so shit.
America severely lacks an even remotely impartial actual news show.


The Daily show is on the same level as fox news. Viewers of both just want their beliefs validated except I guess they get a laugh out of it with the daily show.
Question.?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-26 16:41:08
July 26 2016 16:40 GMT
#89594
People should be praised for being so passionate that they are brought to tears, not ridiculed.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22485 Posts
July 26 2016 16:42 GMT
#89595
On July 27 2016 01:33 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 01:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 27 2016 01:22 zeo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnhGMUKeq1A

What a disaster.

Ahh all those poor Berniebro's discovering that reality is not like a fairy tale.
Its sad to see young bright delusional minds crushed by the oppressive reality of the world.

Meh, they will be cynical conservatives in a few decades.

It sort of bothers me that people are mocking the girl crying because they candidate she thought would stand up for her lost. I’ll mock the people booing and heckling, but she is just doing her thing, by herself.

Someone pointed out that that we tell college students they can change the world and make it a better place. Then when they try, the media mocks them. I dislike the unreasonable demands and sort of jerky behavior of the some of Bernie’s supporters, but people do seem to get off on mocking them. I am guilty of that and its really shitty.

The problem is telling people they can make a big difference.
You can on a small local level sure but in the big picture we are all basically powerless.

Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to effect change (like through the political process) but you have to accept that fact that it is unlikely to truly change anything.


And yes I was probably harder then I should have been but I cant see myself ever get that invested in a candidate in the first place.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 26 2016 16:43 GMT
#89596
On July 27 2016 01:37 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 01:31 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 27 2016 01:28 LegalLord wrote:
If you get your news from comedy then your news source is literally a joke.

People 'switched' to the Daily show simply because all the mainstream media was so shit.
America severely lacks an even remotely impartial actual news show.


The Daily show is on the same level as fox news. Viewers of both just want their beliefs validated except I guess they get a laugh out of it with the daily show.

I disagree; the daily show is a bit more open about their biases; and I find they often do a more reasonable job. admittedly I haven't watched as much since the new guy was put in.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10924 Posts
July 26 2016 16:46 GMT
#89597
The daily show also is on comedy central not a NEWS network.


One is open propaganda, the other is political comedy. If the comedy show would be just half as factual/truthfull as Fox, Fox should allready be insulted... Yet all evidence points to the contrary.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2016 16:49 GMT
#89598
I fell this entire discussion can be summed up by watching that cross fire episode again.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
July 26 2016 16:49 GMT
#89599
The daily show never peddled itself as an actual source of news though.. It was still amusing when they examined the viewer base for all the major news channels + the daily show and the most informed people where those who watched the daily show.

I think Stewart knew his audience was pretty much only liberals and a lot of them highly or becoming highly educated. He also did a fair share of skewering all the big media stations and how much of a shit show they are so that was always appreciated. Yes he did attack Fox the most but CNN and MSNBC got their share of being raked over the coals.
Never Knows Best.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 26 2016 17:09 GMT
#89600
On July 27 2016 01:42 Gorsameth wrote:
The problem is telling people they can make a big difference.
You can on a small local level sure but in the big picture we are all basically powerless.

That also has to do with a lot of people not knowing where they can actually create meaningful change.

Presidential elections are super glamorized and get a lot of media attention, but the amount of impact most voters have on the outcome is pretty damn small, especially when you consider how the Electoral College works. You have a lot more consistent impact voting at the local and regional level but since these elections aren't as glamorous, a lot of these younger people getting involved don't participate at that level.
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