EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4454
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10026 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 amazingxkcd wrote: To me, you're either voting for hillary because you rather ignore the insurmountable corruption surrounding her and her clinton foundation, focusing on feelings or you vote for trump to fix said corruptions and remove her taint from DC Stannis will scour this court of corrup.. sorry wrong thread. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 amazingxkcd wrote: To me, you're either voting for hillary because you rather ignore the insurmountable corruption surrounding her and her clinton foundation, focusing on feelings or you vote for trump to fix said corruptions and remove her taint from DC Or the Republicans have done nothing to earn our vote and everything to say they want to destroy sections of the goverment we value. And take away civil liberties we think people should have. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32761 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 amazingxkcd wrote: To me, you're either voting for hillary because you rather ignore the insurmountable corruption surrounding her and her clinton foundation, focusing on feelings or you vote for trump to fix said corruptions and remove her taint from DC Expecting the potential Trump administration to clean up the corruption of an entire political system is very very ambitious. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
On July 26 2016 06:57 farvacola wrote: particularly healthcare, retirement, disability insurance, food assistance, and environmental protection, food assistance is the only thing in that list that the government is actually competent at providing. and that's probably because it's so simple, it's basic wealth transfer. take the tax money and put it on cards and provide them to those who qualify. not a lot of complexity although of course the government has managed to make it complicated and stupid at times. everything else it is either mediocre to outright awful at. by its own admission it is terrible at environmental protection because global warming, and that is a bit of a troll argument but the EPA's constant rejection by the courts and a couple high-profile environmental accidents caused BY the EPA have kind of reduced its public image and effectiveness. it is terrible at providing healthcare with medicare being an important but isolated exception. i have to deal extensively with government-provided healthcare in my work and unless it is medicare the headaches are endless both for me and for the patients. people working longer suggests that it has not been terribly effective at providing good retirement in the face of economic weakness. disability insurance is one of the things that is gutting social security and the reason it is is that standards were too lax during the recession, way too many people got SSDI who shouldn't have. although they did finally tighten things up about 4 years ago there. things aren't much better at the state level either at least not in my state or in states like CA. | ||
KwarK
United States44439 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:02 FiWiFaKi wrote: Uhh... Do you think that he's just going to tear it all down? Fear mongering at best. He says he will. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46687 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 amazingxkcd wrote: To me, you're either voting for hillary because you rather ignore the insurmountable corruption surrounding her and her clinton foundation, focusing on feelings or you vote for trump to fix said corruptions and remove her taint from DC The idea that the token Hillary voter is appealing to emotion more than the token Trump voter is astounding to me. Trump and the RNC are 100% about fearmongering and hatemongering, whereas the Democratic message has been much more positive and optimistic. And what about the entire list of great reforms that I just posted, that Hillary and the Democrats support, that Trump and the Republicans don't? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10026 Posts
The magic of the Trump campaign is that whenever he says anything like that people will just say "Oh, that's campaigning Trump, president Trump will be moderate." Its another version of blind worship. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:06 PhoenixVoid wrote: Expecting the potential Trump administration to clean up the corruption of an entire political system is very very ambitious. He will do nothing to clean it up. He will show up and just ignore anything anyone does as long as they are loyal to him. That is all Trump cares about, if people are loyal and stick up for him. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 farvacola wrote: Assuming that there is only one reason for voting for the other candidate is stupid. its not, but its the base reason. I'll probably write a longer blog about this | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46687 Posts
The sentence of the DNC that perfectly encapsulates the difference in the tone and message of the Democrats vs. the Republicans right now. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:08 Jockmcplop wrote: The magic of the Trump campaign is that whenever he says anything like that people will just say "Oh, that's campaigning Trump, president Trump will be moderate." Its another version of blind worship. He said that beating up protesters at rallies was fine and offered to pay for peoples legal fees. Not if the protesters were violent, just if they were at the rally protesting. Edit: And before people get upset, it was bad that some people were violent at trump rallies in response to trump supporters. But that has nothing to do with Trump telling his supporters to beat the shit out of protesters and he would cover their legal bills. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The idea that the token Hillary voter is appealing to emotion more than the token Trump voter is astounding to me. Trump and the RNC are 100% about fearmongering and hatemongering, whereas the Democratic message has been much more positive and optimistic. And what about the entire list of great reforms that I just posted, that Hillary and the Democrats support, that Trump and the Republicans don't? and you're fearmongering with that list. Donald trump hasnt made claims to remove any of that, | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 amazingxkcd wrote: To me, you're either voting for hillary because you rather ignore the insurmountable corruption surrounding her and her clinton foundation, focusing on feelings or you vote for trump to fix said corruptions and remove her taint from DC I accept that Hillary is corrupt, I just think it matters a whole lot less to what a president actually does than Trump repeatedly showing himself either unwilling or incapable of educating himself when it comes to relevant issues. Honestly, a lot of what the president does is pretty irrelevant to the person's personal morals and/or gain (which is also why I likewise didn't give a shit about Bill Clinton being a criminal, since everything about that was more irrelevant to decisions he makes as president that actually matter), and I think having a president that makes unintelligent/uninformed decisions has way more potential to be bad for the country than one who is corrupt. That said, I'm probably voting for Gary Johnson either way and I live in a state where my vote doesn't matter. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:11 Plansix wrote: He said that beating up protesters at rallies was fine and offered to pay for peoples legal fees. Not if the protesters were violent, just if they were at the rally protesting. You don't get it. What he says doesn't matter, its is general overall attitude that people will vote for. His words, policies, skills, competencies are all totally irrelevant cos he's going to stick it to the man, and call the man a stupid asshole while he does it. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: ? Trump and the Republican Party are against these acts and reforms. They actively campaign against them, and they regularly threaten to remove them (or try to). It's not fearmongering; it's completely appropriate fear. They say most of these things aren't executed perfectly/great. It's not like the Republicans will come into power, and there wont be a minimum wage, or there wont be clean water, etc. Naturally there will be reforms, after all, some of those policies listed are what's responsible for the struggle the US has had. The current Medicare in the US absolutely sucks, the public education system is (pardon me) garbage... Anyway, you just list everything and since Trump doesn't support a lot of them in the current form, automatically it's bad. The legitimate concerns imo are EPA, Roe vs Wade, Marriage Equality, and Supreme Court stuff... Everything else is silly fear, hell, how many people here off the top of their head even know what endowment for the arts and humanities goes to? What the Clean Water Act outlines (does Trump not believe in clean water?), what companies are getting Public Broadcasting money... sigh. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46687 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:11 amazingxkcd wrote: and you're fearmongering with that list. Donald trump hasnt made claims to remove any of that, Either you're joking or you haven't started to follow his election campaign yet. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:11 amazingxkcd wrote: and you're fearmongering with that list. Donald trump hasnt made claims to remove any of that, Yeah he has. The party he ran under said they would. That is how being the nominee for a party works. | ||
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KwarK
United States44439 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:12 Jockmcplop wrote: You don't get it. What he says doesn't matter, its is general overall attitude that people will vote for. His words, policies, skills, competencies are all totally irrelevant cos he's going to stick it to the man, and call the man a stupid asshole while he does it. The power of the con-artist in action. Its all feels before facts. | ||
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