In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On July 17 2016 08:30 Luolis wrote: People using the word "cuck" unironically on tl. Ripperinoes
I mean come on, are we on 4chan or what?
Trump has influence of 4chan to the political discussion. They are one of the many wonderful section of the internet he bring out.
Ironically it wasn't the Trump supporter who brought it into the thread here.
But let's continue whining about it for a few more pages it's amazing how everyone comes out of the woodworks to whine about it here and just ignored it when 'your team' used it
I'm starting to think this isn't a great place to actually discuss U.S. politics it's more of just a place to bash Trump and conservatives
better than reddit and certainly better than irl
Jake is like many people working in Silicon Valley.
The software engineer works for a big tech company, went to a top-tier university, and loves doing innovative work.
But one thing makes him very different: He supports Donald Trump.
In Silicon Valley — which prides itself on open-mindedness, a system of meritocracy, and a thirst for innovation — Jake's support of Trump is more than just outside the mainstream. It's a dangerous liability.
Since he's told people of his support, friends who he thought were close have stopped talking to him. His coworkers shirk the subject. What used to be personal relationships at work are now only professional conversations, he says.
Now Jake tries to keep his Trump support a secret.
On July 17 2016 12:42 FiWiFaKi wrote: Anyway, I went a few pages back, and didn't see the Mike Pence speech posted:
Thoughts?
As for me, I think he's a pretty good pick. Having no religious affiliation and supporting people like this definitely puts me in the minority, but I suppose it prevails (for me) over those bad form of feminism or LGBTQIA perspectives that some of the left has. As long as abortion remains legal, people are judged on performance in the workplace and not sex/age/race/etc (which is something Trump believes)... Light Christian values are alright, having some foundation is nice, because in my viewpoint the rationalism being executed by the left can be used to argue anything with careful selection of information.
So anyway, a safe pick, much more careful with his words (which I'm sure some people who support some of Trump's ideas but not his personality will appreciate). While VP picks really don't matter that much, this will probably help Trump most with White women, I don't see this making an impact on either of the two big minorities.
If I recall correctly Pence signed a bill into law in his state while governor that mandated you hold a funeral for your aborted fetus. That's not so light on the Christian stuff.
You recall correctly.
Where is the actual source for this? I can't find a source to the actual House Bill 1337 anywhere I just get all these news articles on it that don't cite the actual bill.
Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
It requires burial or cremation of the remains, which would likely be at the expense of the clinic or woman receiving the abortion. I guess they could cremate the remains, but good luck finding a funeral home willing to do it.
On July 17 2016 13:14 LegalLord wrote: By the way, do people still care about the Supreme Court nomination, or is that just a bit of dysfunction that everyone just decided to look past?
This is the only thing that has many conservatives I know or read from voting for Trump.
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
The same result happen if you showed support for Trump outside of work (get called bigot, racist, sexist, unfriended etc..). I know this is anecdotal, but FB's newest product manager is clearly a Bernie supporter based on his public social media. I guess that didn't have an impact on his job prospects in SV.
On July 17 2016 08:30 Luolis wrote: People using the word "cuck" unironically on tl. Ripperinoes
I mean come on, are we on 4chan or what?
Trump has influence of 4chan to the political discussion. They are one of the many wonderful section of the internet he bring out.
Ironically it wasn't the Trump supporter who brought it into the thread here.
But let's continue whining about it for a few more pages it's amazing how everyone comes out of the woodworks to whine about it here and just ignored it when 'your team' used it
I'm starting to think this isn't a great place to actually discuss U.S. politics it's more of just a place to bash Trump and conservatives
Jake is like many people working in Silicon Valley.
The software engineer works for a big tech company, went to a top-tier university, and loves doing innovative work.
But one thing makes him very different: He supports Donald Trump.
In Silicon Valley — which prides itself on open-mindedness, a system of meritocracy, and a thirst for innovation — Jake's support of Trump is more than just outside the mainstream. It's a dangerous liability.
Since he's told people of his support, friends who he thought were close have stopped talking to him. His coworkers shirk the subject. What used to be personal relationships at work are now only professional conversations, he says.
Now Jake tries to keep his Trump support a secret.
When someone tells you I support Bernie or Hillary, it's like oh, cool... But if it's Trump it's like shh, keep your voice down.
My perspective on it is in day to day life you want to be nice, and the Bernie approach is cool. If you're going to talk military, immigration, economy, etc, there's always going to be people who get screwed. Same way how a military general usually isn't nice, or a financial advisor for a Fortune 500 isn't nice at work... I think it's the same thing for Trump.
The execution isn't always good, I've interpreted it as a way to cut out the fluff, but saying hey, immigration is a big issue, these people are changing our society, or hey, these countries are f***ing us with our trade agreements, or hey, you're over complicating human life with this rationalism to an extreme... I'm not saying they are true, but I think people don't give it as much thought should, they discard it automatically because it's a mean thing to say.
Anyway, my opinion at the moment it that in general, the left is trying to bring to my logic and reason into the human experience, and people are not that. I am a numbers person, but peoples' emotions are not rational, and I don't think the end goal is to make people live more rationally either - and that's where I think Trump support comes from. The people who are just sick and tired of the endless arguments using reason. When I was younger, I'd always need an explanation for some choice, but now I'm more of a just shut the f*** up... Yes, US has a higher firearm homicide rate, but let it be, I already have to go pay $80 to get a license to go fishing once a year with friends, stop trying to change more shit and make it more difficult for me to live my simple life.
I'm a conservative and I can tell you half your post is full of shit and unamerican. that you have the balls to act self righteous about people inconveniencing you on guns when people die every day should shame you to the core. We can aregue that the laws they want won't do anything for the issue or restrict our rights as citizens but to make it about you is just EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGFGWG
A service based economy is always going to fuck over a country on trade deals. Imigration into assimilation doesn't mean they drop everything that made them them when they come here. People wanting registration and licencing for guns crosses a few lines before they inconvenience you.
I feel like I have to break down your basic role in politics as a conservative. You are here to conserve what we have of whats great in america today. the progressives want to progress the country to whats going to make it great tomorrow. Thats why our teams got these names.
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
The same result happen if you showed support for Trump outside of work (get called bigot, racist, sexist, unfriended etc..). I know this is anecdotal, but FB's newest product manager is clearly a Bernie supporter based on his public social media. I guess that didn't have an impact on his job prospects in SV.
Universities and tech firms are dominantly liberal, Silicon Valley especially... Most forums are as well. Though in that environment, it's rather unsurprising, since acceptance, teamwork, and other traits are ones that generally should be valued when working in teams with little personal connection. And for smooth business, generally it is best to set your personality and the liberal agenda works well, for basic human interaction, not always.
I dunno know though, Republicans are super conservative, and I don't like that, I'm closer to a liberal than a conservative, but just some of the newer ideas, it's just too much for me, stuff like the NDP in Canada, I'm just trying to help slow down this wave. For me, if anyone is familiar with Canadian politics, but on the spectrum of NDP being 1, Liberal being 6, Conservative being 10, I'm an 8-9.... Ugh, I just wish everyone used the Political Compass:
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
The same result happen if you showed support for Trump outside of work (get called bigot, racist, sexist, unfriended etc..). I know this is anecdotal, but FB's newest product manager is clearly a Bernie supporter based on his public social media. I guess that didn't have an impact on his job prospects in SV.
Honestly I suspect in a job like facebook where you're almost required to overshare and given facebook's demographic they can probably justify screening at the very least for someone willing to appear progressive while on the job.
Also I think it's funny that there are conservatives complaining that people judge them for what they believe as if beliefs aren't a reflection of who you are. If you're ashamed of your beliefs just keep them quiet, if they got harassed for them I'd not be okay with that but "nobody will talk to me anymore" just screams of needing a safe space where they can say they like Trump and not be judged for it.
On July 17 2016 13:40 Sermokala wrote: I'm a conservative and I can tell you half your post is full of shit and unamerican. that you have the balls to act self righteous about people inconveniencing you on guns when people die every day should shame you to the core. We can aregue that the laws they want won't do anything for the issue or restrict our rights as citizens but to make it about you is just EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGFGWG
A service based economy is always going to fuck over a country on trade deals. Imigration into assimilation doesn't mean they drop everything that made them them when they come here. People wanting registration and licencing for guns crosses a few lines before they inconvenience you.
I feel like I have to break down your basic role in politics as a conservative. You are here to conserve what we have of whats great in america today. the progressives want to progress the country to whats going to make it great tomorrow. Thats why our teams got these names.
I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. It's not like one party wants change and the other wants to never change.
I simply think that frequently the decisions are too sudden, and they heavily revolve around the mob mentality, and it's easy to get behind ideas like people should be treated respectfully, fairly, etc. I suppose I'm more of a cynic, and I think people look on the bright side and not the dark, speaking purely on a social level. I've always supported gay marriage, and I quite heavily disapprove of that 1337 Bill posted (though probably not as much as others here)... However when rash decisions are made to bring in thousands of refugees to Canada for example, and I see the national polling on the subject, I sometimes ask myself to what extent other have thought about it? Or when I see people seeing the difference between lead and lag indicators for wage gap... Or when I see the pety and ineffective efforts in integrating First Nations here into society.
Anyway, I really don't like the categorization of progressive vs status-quo. Being able to spew the most revolutionary shit isn't a good thing, but hey, it works in Canada, and hence our government bounces back and forth. In that regard, I think Hillary is a solid candidate, because it's about calculated, well thought out incremental change - however my irrationality of hating everything there is to hate about her personality, integrity, accountability, and my distaste for Warren would lead me to rather vote for a chimpanzee. If the option was to take a 3rd Obama term, I'd gladly take that over either of the two options (though it's still far from perfect imo).
On July 17 2016 13:40 Sermokala wrote: I'm a conservative and I can tell you half your post is full of shit and unamerican. that you have the balls to act self righteous about people inconveniencing you on guns when people die every day should shame you to the core. We can aregue that the laws they want won't do anything for the issue or restrict our rights as citizens but to make it about you is just EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGFGWG
A service based economy is always going to fuck over a country on trade deals. Imigration into assimilation doesn't mean they drop everything that made them them when they come here. People wanting registration and licencing for guns crosses a few lines before they inconvenience you.
I feel like I have to break down your basic role in politics as a conservative. You are here to conserve what we have of whats great in america today. the progressives want to progress the country to whats going to make it great tomorrow. Thats why our teams got these names.
I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. It's not like one party wants change and the other wants to never change.
I simply think that frequently the decisions are too sudden, and they heavily revolve around the mob mentality, and it's easy to get behind ideas like people should be treated respectfully, fairly, etc. I suppose I'm more of a cynic, and I think people look on the bright side and not the dark, speaking purely on a social level. I've always supported gay marriage, and I quite heavily disapprove of that 1337 Bill posted (though probably not as much as others here)... However when rash decisions are made to bring in thousands of refugees to Canada for example, and I see the national polling on the subject, I sometimes ask myself to what extent other have thought about it? Or when I see people seeing the difference between lead and lag indicators for wage gap... Or when I see the pety and ineffective efforts in integrating First Nations here into society.
Anyway, I really don't like the categorization of progressive vs status-quo. Being able to spew the most revolutionary shit isn't a good thing, but hey, it works in Canada, and hence our government bounces back and forth. In that regard, I think Hillary is a solid candidate, because it's about calculated, well thought out incremental change - however my irrationality of hating everything there is to hate about her personality, integrity, accountability, and my distaste for Warren would lead me to rather vote for a chimpanzee. If the option was to take a 3rd Obama term, I'd gladly take that over either of the two options (though it's still far from perfect imo).
People overall are frankly dumb and get dumber and more emotional when in large groups. So of course a lot of stupid shallow shit gets thrown around by both sides because no one takes the time to think things through. Too much knee jerk reactions that don't take into consideration long term effects or how people will use/react to those new laws in practice. Its why you need smart leaders who know when to tell the mob to fuck off and do the right thing even though its not what they want. That is a a big problem today, a large chunk of those in power pretty much just play to whatever mob has their support so they stay in power longer instead of taking risks with their poll numbers by working with "the other side" and getting real and good shit done.
Even Obama when he was 1st running stressed long term projects that will take time to kick in, work out the kinks, and produce results to get the US back on track after the recession. He did this over and over and people still got impatient as hell. Very few take a long term look and approach to life, even fewer politicians do.
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
The same result happen if you showed support for Trump outside of work (get called bigot, racist, sexist, unfriended etc..). I know this is anecdotal, but FB's newest product manager is clearly a Bernie supporter based on his public social media. I guess that didn't have an impact on his job prospects in SV.
Honestly I suspect in a job like facebook where you're almost required to overshare and given facebook's demographic they can probably justify screening at the very least for someone willing to appear progressive while on the job.
Also I think it's funny that there are conservatives complaining that people judge them for what they believe as if beliefs aren't a reflection of who you are. If you're ashamed of your beliefs just keep them quiet, if they got harassed for them I'd not be okay with that but "nobody will talk to me anymore" just screams of needing a safe space where they can say they like Trump and not be judged for it.
And the irony in that realization could make one's head explode.
Provides that a miscarried or aborted fetus must be interred or cremated by a facility having possession of the remains. Requires a person or facility having possession of a miscarried or aborted fetus to ensure that the miscarried fetus or aborted fetus is preserved until final disposition occurs.
Isn't this the normal procedure for getting rid of a fetus anyways? Where is the bit about funerals?
edit - nevermind I figured out how to view more of it
SECTION 11. IC 16-21-11-6, AS ADDED BY P.L.127-2014, SECTION 4, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2016]: Sec. 6. (a) If the parent or parents choose a means of location of final disposition other than the means location of final disposition that is usual and customary for the health care facility, the parent or parents are responsible for the costs related to the final disposition of the fetus at the chosen location.
Yea I don't get this whole 'makes women pay for funerals of fetuses' idea where did it come from? It's just saying the option is there if you want to have a funeral. But if you don't want to use the actual health care facility to dispose of it, you have to pay for the disposition (funeral) yourself.
I don't see shit about making you have funerals for aborted fetuses. Leave it to the media to overreact and dishonestly slander people.
Can anyone else confirm anywhere in the bill that states you have to hold a funeral for your aborted fetus? Am I reading this wrong?
If Trump doesn't significantly tap into some other demo besides white men he will get crushed because even if he takes that demo by a large margin he won't win (even doubtful that he will take white men by a super large margin).
I agree, this should be the election that really drives home the nail to the Republicans that the white male vote is just not enough anymore. We will see though as they seem to be taking all the wrong message from there platform.
On July 17 2016 10:17 farvacola wrote: As an anti-Trump American white man, I'm not sure that's an entirely accurate characterization, but I do think that it's a fair one
So am i, sucks as voting group we tend to go right though. I am sure if you looked hard enough you would also find some Evangelical that support the left and Hillary lol
On July 17 2016 10:19 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Men and Whites side with Trump. Women, Latinos, and Blacks side with Hillary, that's more or less every election in the last 30 years though.
Trump is doing pretty good with Latinos overall, he's more or less tied with Hillary with the Latino's who speak English primarily (I think it's an interesting statistic).
Yes toughs have been the battle lines but i dont ever recall them being this divided.
And last i read he is getting murdered
[A nationwide survey of Hispanic voters conducted for Univision in the leadup to next week's Republican National Convention found 67 percent support Clinton. Trump is at 19 percent.
Among Hispanic voters surveyed, 73 percent believe Trump is racist. Just 20 percent say he isn't racist and 7 percent said they didn't know.
Take a look at polls comparing Spanish speak Lations and English speaking ones, the difference is staggering. I'll try and go find a couple of the articles I've seen.
I think Pew Research is fairly reputable, and here they claim that Hillary has only a 7 point lead with English speaking Latino's, which is massive, and if that happened during the election, Trump would easily sweep (obviously not so)... I think/hope the Latino vote shifts a bit towards Trump as the elections draws closer.
I see, both articles seem to being saying the same thing in a roundabout way, just spinning it in a postive light depending on which side of the isle you are on. At least what i go from it is that where the Mexican vote has power it does not really matter. Like Hispanics in texas(a growing block there) can hate/like trump all they want not really that much in the big picture of things.
On July 17 2016 13:14 LegalLord wrote: By the way, do people still care about the Supreme Court nomination, or is that just a bit of dysfunction that everyone just decided to look past?
Activist, left-leaning legal advocacy groups have and continue to harp on Garland's nomination hold up. It has definitely fallen from the media cycle though, that's for sure.
Because if you whine about something long enough people get bored with it and stop caring.
I am sure the depths of Republican obstructionism will be thoroughly dredged up by the time the election rolls around to remind people just how low congressional approval is and who is the cause of that.
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
I don't feel bad for him, but I certainly think it's bad that people are unwilling to be open about who they vote for because it leads to social exclusion. Of course, I also can't make people hang out with people they like, people's opinions tend to influence how other people look at them, and I totally understand how sharing Trump's opinions in an as diverse work place as silicon valley is going to backfire socially.
So it's a genuine problem, but I dunno how to solve it.. ;p
On July 17 2016 13:22 Plansix wrote: Don't talk about politics at work. Don't tell people who you are voting for. This is getting along at work 101. I know which attorneys are Republican at my firm and I don't talk to them about police. Same with democrats.
That story is supposed to make people feel bad for him, but that is elections. These are social conventions that people have known for decades.
I don't feel bad for him, but I certainly think it's bad that people are unwilling to be open about who they vote for because it leads to social exclusion. Of course, I also can't make people hang out with people they like, people's opinions tend to influence how other people look at them, and I totally understand how sharing Trump's opinions in an as diverse work place as silicon valley is going to backfire socially.
So it's a genuine problem, but I dunno how to solve it.. ;p
as kwark proposed: safe spaces for trump supporters, where they can be free from being hurt by coworkers no longer talking to them every firm having at least one trump supporter is legally required to hire a proportion of its total work force from trump supporters so they have someone to talk to, that shares and likes their ideas.
That aside, i still do not understand how this is actually happening, that trump is going to be the presidential candidate of the republicans. The laughing and joking about this totally unfathomable prospect seems to have almost completely died down and replaced by disillusionment and worry (in the international community).
His recent uptick on 538 made me realize how real this issue actually might become. (And in some sense already is)
What i am less sure about is: will this resurgence of machismo, chauvinism and nationalistic irrationality be the last twitches of a dying idea, or will the interlude of an equitable free society as ideal come to an end?
ST. LOUIS – Hillary Clinton committed Saturday to introducing a constitutional amendment to overturn the Citizens United decision within her first 30 days in office, if she’s elected president.
The announcement will come in a video during the closing keynote of the progressive Netroots Nation conference this afternoon, and it’s yet another attempt to adopt the positions of her vanquished primary rival Sen. Bernie Sanders.
“The amendment would allow Americans to establish common sense rules to protect against the undue influence of billionaires and special interests and to restore the role of average voters in elections,” a Clinton spokesman said in statement.
Last fall as the primary season ramped up and Sanders gained momentum, Clinton called for the 2010 Citizens United v FEC decision, which spawned the creation of super PACS, to be overturned. She also said she wanted more stringent political spending disclosure rules, and a new public matching regime so that presidential and congressional campaigns could more easily solicit small donations.
In addition to this constitutional amendment, the Clinton spokesman said, she will sign an executive order requiring federal contractors to disclose their shareholders’ spending, while also pushing “for federal legislation to require effective public disclosure of political spending.” The candidate, if elected, will also, “promote SEC rulemaking requiring publicly traded companies to disclose all political spending to their shareholders,” the spokesman said.
EPT
