• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:22
CEST 11:22
KST 18:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Who will win EWC 2025? Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
Corsair Pursuit Micro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
[MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
gramwilliam The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 655 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 425

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 423 424 425 426 427 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 12 2013 01:18 GMT
#8481
On September 12 2013 10:07 sam!zdat wrote:
^case in point

notice the part where I said I was just offering an analysis of the way things are?

Yeah, why do you ask?
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 01:23:46
September 12 2013 01:23 GMT
#8482
On September 12 2013 09:55 sam!zdat wrote:
either way. It amounts to the same thing, whether your landlord is a private entity whose landlord is then the territorial power, or just the territorial power directly. Maybe there's a distinction and my language is imprecise


If I understood ground rent right, then I'm gonna dissagree with your point. Ground rent isn't the problem, since it is a contractual relationship between the owner of the land and those that use it. The problem, in your perspective, should be land ownership in the first place.

Another thing is that you probably have 18th-century England in mind when you claim "a main part of the function of property tax/ground rent is to make it impossible for you to escape from the monetized economy" (the enclosure process comes to mind). In modern times, communities centered around subsistence farming are hardly an option (and would be even with both land ownership and no property taxes). Only the most eccentric would be willing to forgo everything modern society has to offer to live in this theoretical commune.
Bora Pain minha porra!
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 01:31:21
September 12 2013 01:29 GMT
#8483
maybe. This might change though over the next few decades as things like biotech and 3d printing enable more things to be manufactured in a decentralized manner. As these things progress the mode of production changes and might enable more freedom from global supply chains (and being dependent on global supply chains is the scary thing imo)

it's true that I also think you need a culutral shift in perceptions of what material propserity means, away from unrealistic midcentury american standards. I'd rather have time than stuff
shikata ga nai
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 01:49:35
September 12 2013 01:49 GMT
#8484
Now you're just being utopic . But hey, time will tell.
Bora Pain minha porra!
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 12 2013 01:59 GMT
#8485
gotta stay sane somehow shrubbie
shikata ga nai
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 12 2013 02:01 GMT
#8486
On September 12 2013 10:29 sam!zdat wrote:
it's true that I also think you need a culutral shift in perceptions of what material propserity means, away from unrealistic midcentury american standards. I'd rather have time than stuff

You're pretty free to choose more time over more stuff.

That's largely the direction the economy has been moving in too. People want additional services and experiences rather than additional stuff (for the most part).

I'm going to take this to mean that you're finally coming around to embracing the status quo and sleep well tonight
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 12 2013 02:09 GMT
#8487
I'll start sleeping at night when we stop printing infinite money to prop up a recovery that isn't happening
shikata ga nai
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 12 2013 02:32 GMT
#8488
On September 12 2013 11:09 sam!zdat wrote:
I'll start sleeping at night when we stop printing infinite money to prop up a recovery that isn't happening

I'd be happy if some of that infinite money made it out and actually increased the (broad) money supply. But, alas, it is what it is...
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 12 2013 02:39 GMT
#8489
yeah. Alas. It's just too bad, isn't it. Too bad. But what are ya gonna do? Certainly not, you know, actually get indignant about something for a change. Not jonny.
shikata ga nai
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
September 12 2013 02:48 GMT
#8490
Ugh. Printing money is fine. I don't know why people keep spouting this stuff. You're supposed to print money in that situation. Why do people act like this is a bad thing?
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 12 2013 02:53 GMT
#8491
are you serious? You think you can just print money infinitely and everything will be okay? We have no exit strategy for QE and it's not doing anything except paying banks to hold cash and inflating equity values. It's a hostage situation basically

I love how people have been convinced that monetary policy doesn't matter and anyone who thinks it does is a crazy person
shikata ga nai
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
September 12 2013 03:19 GMT
#8492
Can't let the party stop man. If the party stopped we might have a revolution on our hands. Much better for the potato to keep changing hands until it blows up like a nuclear bomb and kills the economy.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 12 2013 03:30 GMT
#8493
doublereed you would be correct if this were a cyclical crisis as ideology demands that it must be (because ideology can only admit the existence of cyclical crisis). But it is not cyclical crisis it is structural crisis. That is why QE is doing nothing and will not do anything. They are trying to flood the engine with gas to get it started again, but the problem is the axle is broken.
shikata ga nai
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
September 12 2013 03:30 GMT
#8494
On September 12 2013 11:48 DoubleReed wrote:
Ugh. Printing money is fine. I don't know why people keep spouting this stuff. You're supposed to print money in that situation. Why do people act like this is a bad thing?

Marxists are simply still a bit butthurt that it was money printing and Keynes that pretty much left us fucked.

And concerning libertarians, I am not sure myself at times.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 03:48:25
September 12 2013 03:45 GMT
#8495
QE's effect on subsidizing asset prices is worrisome. By buying more and more assets, they inflated market prices. When will it end? Who knows. You don't have to take my word on it, billionaire investor Stanley Druckenmiller talks about a coming market drop once the practice ends.

Long term, it's entitlement spending that is the real worrisome thing. If we put entitlement obligations on the balance sheet, you're looking at National Debt going from $16 billion to $200 trillion (source and additional exposition)
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 04:12:01
September 12 2013 04:09 GMT
#8496
On September 12 2013 12:30 sam!zdat wrote:
doublereed you would be correct if this were a cyclical crisis as ideology demands that it must be (because ideology can only admit the existence of cyclical crisis). But it is not cyclical crisis it is structural crisis. That is why QE is doing nothing and will not do anything. They are trying to flood the engine with gas to get it started again, but the problem is the axle is broken.


Uhm. No. Financial Crises are different from a normal cyclical crisis which we would just jump back from. That's already been pretty firmly understood.

This isn't a "structural crisis" either. The structural part is just because we didn't do a large enough stimulus to get the financial markets back on track. And we're up against the zero lower bound. So yes, there are going to be long-term drags on the economy and such but it's not structural in nature. That's just to excuse the shoddy job we've done in responding to the crisis.

Printing money is basically harmless right now. This idea that it's going to do serious harm is just the normal ideological scaremongering that always happens whenever printing money is ever suggested.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 04:13:05
September 12 2013 04:11 GMT
#8497
yeah we should have given the crooks even more money, that would have helped

jobs are gone and never coming back. The economy has no use anymore for human beings, we are obsolescent. I'd call that a structural crisis

but yeah sure it'll all work out fine just keep printing
shikata ga nai
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 04:18:42
September 12 2013 04:13 GMT
#8498
On September 12 2013 13:11 sam!zdat wrote:
yeah we should have given the crooks even more money, that would have helped


The bailout is not the same thing as the stimulus.

jobs are gone and never coming back. The economy has no use anymore for human beings, we are obsolescent. I'd call that a structural crisis

but yeah sure it'll all work out fine just keep printing


Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Do you honestly think there isn't more shit to do in the US? This is such an obviously ridiculous thing to say. We have plenty of crap that needs doing. We are not at all at full employment.

And what's worse is that this is exactly the attitude that will prevent us from getting to full employment. It can create a self-fulfilling prophecy and cause more economic stupidity than we've already had. Stop it. We have to get our economy back to work.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 04:22:32
September 12 2013 04:21 GMT
#8499
there is stuff to do but the private sector can't do it

stimulus bailout whatever it's all free money to capitalist scum from where I'm standing
shikata ga nai
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 04:25:06
September 12 2013 04:23 GMT
#8500
On September 12 2013 13:21 sam!zdat wrote:
there is stuff to do but the private sector can't do it


Yea, and our public sector is what is lagging most right now because of austerity.

stimulus bailout whatever it's all free money to capitalist scum from where I'm standing


You do know that a significant chunk of stimulus was just sent to the states to help out with their budgets, right?
Prev 1 423 424 425 426 427 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 284
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2168
Barracks 1049
GuemChi 561
ToSsGirL 309
BeSt 190
Soma 182
Leta 91
soO 69
Mind 66
Rush 61
[ Show more ]
Backho 54
Free 51
ZerO 37
Shinee 36
Pusan 25
Sharp 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
Bale 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe371
Fuzer 231
League of Legends
JimRising 605
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1521
Super Smash Bros
Westballz41
Other Games
ceh9552
singsing480
Happy314
oskar208
SortOf83
ZerO(Twitch)2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1946
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH326
• LUISG 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV226
• lizZardDota2121
League of Legends
• Stunt973
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.