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On April 29 2016 04:08 zlefin wrote:
Plansix: devil's advocate, and a point I have considered some myself:
What if Trump says horrible things about women, mexicans, but also about men and whites?
Does he then cease to be a sexist/racist?
What if, instead of being sexist/racist, Trump is simply an asshole, and says horrible things about anyone who's on the opposite side of him, no matter who they are?
Well that's the definition of racist/sexist, treating/viewing people differently based on their sex/race. Trump doesn't do that, Trump is blunt, wants to get right down to business, and has a business mentality where he doesn't care about skin/age/race/sex/weight/etc, so long as you can do the job.
Anyway, I'll stand by my point, Trump is not a racist or sexist guy. He's a proud American who wants to do what he can to make the country a better place.
I agree with Trump that since the end of the cold war, the US has had very little direction and without that global goal to fight for, the sense of unity between people started to disappear. He's trying to bring everyone back.
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The biggest disqualifier for Trump in everyone's eyes should be his relentless lying and completely inane and stupid policy proposals, as well as his demonstrable inability to keep his own platform and ideas consistent. He is just incompetent as a policymaker and leader.
Letting him derail the conversation into racism, sexism, and whatever is exactly what his strategy is, because people will argue about what constitutes either of those things until the cows come home, and every time you call someone a racist, sexist, or bigot the Republican party loves them more because it means they must be fighting PC culture and "telling it how it is."*
*and sometimes people are in fact doing that. I don't think a lot of the time Trump is though
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On April 29 2016 04:02 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 03:53 Mercy13 wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump frequently objectifies women, and he exploits racial resentment as a central tactic in his campaign so... Lol, Trump attacks everyone: https://medium.com/@prenticemathew/trump-isn-t-sexist-you-are-76c76f5d8d49#.1e5bmtmkuI guarantee you that Trump is definitely the least sexist of everyone who ran in the Republican primary. If you think Trump is a sexist, you don't do any of your own research and just get fed what the media tells you. Trump is not a racist, it's not being a mexican or being muslim that makes you bad. What makes you bad, is if you practice radical Islam, or you have some messed up values due to a poor education system is Mexico (not that US is amazing or anything), and he doesn't want people with disagreeable cultural beliefs in USA. It has nothing to do with their skin color (i.e. your race). Anyway, it's frustrating discussing with a lot of people, because they have all these biased notions of Trump that aren't true, or are heavily exaggerated. Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. Probably not worth arguing, but how is Trump a bigot? He's very open to other people's ideas, and it goes to show that it's true just being seeing how he's changed his opinion on several issues.
I'm not interested in arguing whether he's more or less sexist than the other candidates, I don't really see why that's relevant.
While he attacks lots of people, when he attacks women it is disproportionately related to their appearance. Ditto when he compliments women. Both are problematic.
I don't know whether he personally is a racist, but he definitely uses racist tropes to attract support from racists. For example, he re-tweeted a white supremacist infographic which (wrongly) stated that most white murder victims were killed by African Americans.
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On April 29 2016 04:08 zlefin wrote:
Plansix: devil's advocate, and a point I have considered some myself:
What if Trump says horrible things about women, mexicans, but also about men and whites?
Does he then cease to be a sexist/racist?
What if, instead of being sexist/racist, Trump is simply an asshole, and says horrible things about anyone who's on the opposite side of him, no matter who they are?
You can be an asshole, racist and sexist. You can also be completely sweet and kind to everyone, but hold racists and sexist beliefs. Racism and sexism are more about peoples willingness to reconsider their views and adjust their perspective. I have been wildly sexist and racist in the past and will fuck up in the future. But I endeavor not to be sexist or racist by actively listening when I am told I am being sexist or racist.
Trump is incapable of that last part. He believes what he says is correct and refuses to back off. What is going through his head is not as important as his reach and the impact of his statements. And the complete lack of respect for the influence he has, which is is clearly aware of.
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On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements.
He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party.
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On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party.
You're confusing the fact that he said in one interview that it should be shut down and in another that it shouldn't as a nuanced view. In fact he supported shutting down the government to defund it at one point.
When you say whatever pops into your head at a given moment it's pretty easy to sound like you have complex nuanced views.
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On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party.
Being the best in a group of assholes isn’t really that impressive. It is just dragging the bar lower.
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On April 29 2016 04:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
Trump is probably the most 'progressive' with regards to women's rights, but he has a big mouth and hasn't learned how to use the conservative religious freedom speak so he comes across as the most sexist
He's trying to do 2 things at once. Create a moderate, pragmatic platform, and not lose the religious, shall we say socially conservative, voting block of the right. To this end we saw him at the debates extolling everything Planned Parenthood does for women's health - except abortion.
Then there was his gaff about abortion punishments that he backed away from by saying it was hypothetical. I think any astute observer will recognize he's been pro-choice forever but his campaign (and life) haven't really been about social issues. But he's still trying to give off enough signals to social conservatives as to say "I'm just like you" to keep them voting. That's why you only hear one mangled soundbyte about abortion every few months compared to hundreds of "we don't win anymore in trade." It's not what his campaign is about and part of the reason is it's not in the president's power to undo the legal precedents going back to Roe v. Wade. Trump is the only GOP candidate who never mentions the "issue" on his campaign site. But observers with an agenda latch onto the sexism narrative because it's easier.
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On April 29 2016 04:33 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party. You're confusing the fact that he said in one interview that it should be shut down and in another that it shouldn't as a nuanced view. In fact he supported shutting down the government to defund it at one point. When you say whatever pops into your head at a given moment it's pretty easy to sound like you have complex nuanced views.
As opposed to Cruz who did actually shut it down?
I'm still of the view that Trump can be persuaded to sign a law that increases women's rights. The religious extremists are what worries me more.
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On April 29 2016 04:36 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:33 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party. You're confusing the fact that he said in one interview that it should be shut down and in another that it shouldn't as a nuanced view. In fact he supported shutting down the government to defund it at one point. When you say whatever pops into your head at a given moment it's pretty easy to sound like you have complex nuanced views. As opposed to Cruz who did actually shut it down? I'm still of the view that Trump can be persuaded to sign a law that increases women's rights. The religious extremists are what worries me more.
I mean, I'm mostly trying to point out that the views aren't nuanced-they're just nonsense. You're probably better off with nonsense than Cruz though, yes.
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On April 29 2016 04:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
Trump is probably the most 'progressive' with regards to women's rights, but he has a big mouth and hasn't learned how to use the conservative religious freedom speak so he comes across as the most sexist
On the contrary, he's made very effective use of a lack of conservative religious freedom speak to his advantage.
On April 29 2016 04:39 Barrin wrote:Are there any objections to this? xD
Nope, pretty spot on.
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On April 29 2016 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party. Being the best in a group of assholes isn’t really that impressive. It is just dragging the bar lower.
But why reserve so much of the venom for Trump?
Let's face it, we're both likely to vote for Hillary come November. I, for one though, am hoping Trump wins the Republican nomination as I view him as the lesser of the evils. I suppose Kasich can be more moderate than those two but he isn't winning.
On April 29 2016 04:38 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:36 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 04:33 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party. You're confusing the fact that he said in one interview that it should be shut down and in another that it shouldn't as a nuanced view. In fact he supported shutting down the government to defund it at one point. When you say whatever pops into your head at a given moment it's pretty easy to sound like you have complex nuanced views. As opposed to Cruz who did actually shut it down? I'm still of the view that Trump can be persuaded to sign a law that increases women's rights. The religious extremists are what worries me more. I mean, I'm mostly trying to point out that the views aren't nuanced-they're just nonsense. You're probably better off with nonsense than Cruz though, yes.
Definitely agree on the last point, yes.
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Kasich is very far from a moderate. He just doesn't stand out so people think of him as "generic Republican candidate." If he weren't 1 for 41 no one would think him moderate.
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On April 29 2016 04:44 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:33 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 04:30 andrewlt wrote:On April 29 2016 03:51 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2016 03:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 29 2016 03:45 Plansix wrote:
And a sexist bigot who refuses to admit when he is wrong and makes shit up all the time. Are you referring to Cruz or Trump? Trump isn't a bigot or sexist, though he does make stuff up, yeah. Trump is all three of those things. Our metrics may very, but he is a sexist clown and is prone to some amazing racist statements. He also has some of the most nuanced views on Planned Parenthood, abortion and reproductive rights in the entire Republican party. In terms of sexism, he's below average in that party. Being the best in a group of assholes isn’t really that impressive. It is just dragging the bar lower. But why reserve so much of the venom for Trump?
I don't, he was just the topic at hand. I have said worse about Cruz and the rest of the dumpster fire that is the GOP race.
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On April 29 2016 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
Kasich is very far from a moderate. He just doesn't stand out so people think of him as "generic Republican candidate." If he weren't 1 for 41 no one would think him moderate.
Brings up an interesting question: Looking at the current state of legality in our country, is supporting gay marriage a moderate position now?
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On April 29 2016 05:06 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2016 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
Kasich is very far from a moderate. He just doesn't stand out so people think of him as "generic Republican candidate." If he weren't 1 for 41 no one would think him moderate. Brings up an interesting question: Looking at the current state of legality in our country, is supporting gay marriage a moderate position now?
Seems so.
Somewhat related: did the approach of the "gay pride" movement, to try to garner media attention through provocative actions, prove effective or was it just about time for that movement to take off? I know I personally was really annoyed by that movement and similar ones (e.g. BLM protesters interrupting events).
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EPT
