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On February 24 2016 22:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:46 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here. When Bush left the only countries with active hostilities/insurgencies were Iraq, Afganistan and Yemen. I'm sure its much better over there now after 8 years. Maybe we can blame the catastrophe that was the Arab Spring on Bush too? Everything bad that happened in the world for the last 7 years is Obama's fault. Everything good that happened in the world for the last 7 years was despite Obama's meddling.
zeo couldn't have said it better himself 
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On February 24 2016 22:46 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here. When Bush left the only countries with active hostilities/insurgencies were Iraq, Afganistan and Yemen. I'm sure its much better over there now after 8 years. Maybe we can blame the catastrophe that was the Arab Spring on Bush too?
let's just take a moment and realize that even blair himself apologized for his mistakes and admitted that he himself as well as the US administration of that time (Bush) are in parts responsible for what happened there going as far as saying that there would not be an Islamic State / Isis had the Iraq war not happened.
Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
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On February 24 2016 23:02 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:46 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here. When Bush left the only countries with active hostilities/insurgencies were Iraq, Afganistan and Yemen. I'm sure its much better over there now after 8 years. Maybe we can blame the catastrophe that was the Arab Spring on Bush too? let's just take a moment and realize that even blair himself apologized for his mistakes and admitted that he himself as well as the US administration of that time (Bush) are in parts responsible for what happened there going as far as saying that there would not be an Islamic State / Isis had the Iraq war not happened. Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
It takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to blame Iraq on Obama considering every major decisions in that country took place before he took office. The same with ISIS. Even if Obama could have stopped the Syrian Civil war, that group would still have taken root in some other section of the Middle East.
And the idea that Trump will be good at any part of government is comical. The man barely understands what the office of the president is empowered to do.
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On February 24 2016 23:02 Toadesstern wrote:
Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
Oh please...he did that, because he had nothing to lose at that point...on the contrary, that asshole gained more sympathy from that stunt.
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Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combined
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P9iGrek.png)
Also got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans
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Oh look, race and gender is still not as influential as people are trying to think.
And really. does anything here still believe zeo's posts have any basis in reality? Come on, you know better then to argue against that.
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Can't we just all agree, that these elections don't make any difference...they just decide who gets the big lobby dollars for the next 4 years.
..and don't say Trump doesn't need their money. When has that man ever said no to money.
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The Republicans seem completely dumbfounded as to why people don’t want to vote for their candidates. Their current establishment front runner is a man that has missed more votes than any other senator in congress. Yet for some reason they are doubling down on the “do-nothing” obstructionism by saying they won’t hear any supreme court nominees. Not even meet with them or hold hearings. They seem to think that record low approval of congress doesn’t apply to them in any way.
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On February 24 2016 23:11 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 23:02 Toadesstern wrote:
Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
Oh please...he did that, because he had nothing to lose at that point...on the contrary, that asshole gained more sympathy from that stunt.
he sternly refused to say so and has pushed exactly the other way for years so...
On February 24 2016 23:12 zeo wrote:Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combinedAlso got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans
on the "got 45% of the hispanic vote". Keep in mind that 100% of the hispanic votes in the there makes up for roughly 1% of the hispanic population in the state (or only 8% of the voters that did vote yesterday happened to be hispanic): http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nevada-caucus-results-donald-trump-2016-republican-primary/
so that's not really telling a lot. People already mentioned in here, being cuban doesn't really help with the hispanic vote at all.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here.
Perhaps it's possible for Bush to be bad at foreign policy and for Obama/Clinton to also be bad at foreign policy?
It just so happens to be the case that all three of those presidencies were bad for the rest of the world.
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Is there any reason to separate Hispanics from other white voters? Do non-Hispanic catholics vote differently than Hispanics? I think this topic was brought up some time ago in this thread but dunno how to find it.
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your Country52797 Posts
On February 24 2016 23:12 zeo wrote:Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combinedAlso got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans
The hillary/bernie thing is delegates, not actual votes IIRC.
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Peoples should never assume that any primary vote is reflective of the entire state population or demographic. Party members willing to vote in a primary is a small subgroup with a subgroup. Nevada has 2.3 million people.
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On February 24 2016 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 23:11 thePunGun wrote:On February 24 2016 23:02 Toadesstern wrote:
Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
Oh please...he did that, because he had nothing to lose at that point...on the contrary, that asshole gained more sympathy from that stunt. he sternly refused to say so and has pushed exactly the other way for years so...
...Exactly at that point he just thought: "Huh, might as well own up to it."
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On February 24 2016 23:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 23:12 zeo wrote:Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combinedAlso got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans The hillary/bernie thing is delegates, not actual votes IIRC.
I still have no idea how all the delegates math works so chances I'm wrong on this but no, I think it's votes as well:
NYTimes:
REP: 75,216 votes, 100% reporting (1,784 of 1,784 precincts)
DEM: 12,002 votes, 99% reporting (1,692 of 1,714 precincts)
sounds like votes unless for some reason the voting is done completly different for DEM/REP in the same state and who knows~
/// Actually I AM wrong, nvm
*Vote totals for the Nevada Democratic Party are county convention delegates won
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On February 24 2016 23:24 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here. Perhaps it's possible for Bush to be bad at foreign policy and for Obama/Clinton to also be bad at foreign policy? It just so happens to be the case that all three of those presidencies were bad for the rest of the world.
The entire point of using a rhetorical device of "who else but X" is that nobody else fits the description.
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On February 24 2016 23:28 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 23:25 The_Templar wrote:On February 24 2016 23:12 zeo wrote:Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combinedAlso got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans The hillary/bernie thing is delegates, not actual votes IIRC. I still have no idea how all the delegates math works so chances I'm wrong on this but no, I think it's votes as well: Show nested quote +NYTimes:
REP: 75,216 votes, 100% reporting (1,784 of 1,784 precincts)
DEM: 12,002 votes, 99% reporting (1,692 of 1,714 precincts) sounds like votes unless for some reason the voting is done completly different for DEM/REP in the same state and who knows~ /// Actually I AM wrong, nvm Show nested quote +*Vote totals for the Nevada Democratic Party are county convention delegates won
Don't worry, us Americans in non-caucus states can't keep track of this shit either
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On February 24 2016 23:28 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 23:25 The_Templar wrote:On February 24 2016 23:12 zeo wrote:Trump got almost three times as many votes as Hilary and Bernie combinedAlso got 45% of the hispanic vote against two Cubans The hillary/bernie thing is delegates, not actual votes IIRC. I still have no idea how all the delegates math works so chances I'm wrong on this but no, I think it's votes as well: Show nested quote +NYTimes:
REP: 75,216 votes, 100% reporting (1,784 of 1,784 precincts)
DEM: 12,002 votes, 99% reporting (1,692 of 1,714 precincts) sounds like votes unless for some reason the voting is done completly different for DEM/REP in the same state and who knows~ /// Actually I AM wrong, nvm Show nested quote +*Vote totals for the Nevada Democratic Party are county convention delegates won
The last estimate I saw had ~80,000 voters on the Dem side. It is totally different by party though. Many people had to sit around for hours once inside the caucus location before having their vote counted (unless they were a Hillary supporter, in which case, they could show up late and leave early).
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My favorite part about the caucus process is the endless shade thrown by one side or another about how it was conducted. Twitter has only improved this.
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United States41995 Posts
On February 24 2016 23:02 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 22:46 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 24 2016 22:36 zeo wrote:On February 24 2016 22:12 On_Slaught wrote:
In what bizzaro world will trump be good at foreign policy? Setting back ties with Mexico\SA decades? Starting an economic war with China? Building relations with Arab nations by banning Muslims and putting cameras in mosques? Establishing US moral authority by bringing back torture methods "worse than waterboarding?" Going off on any world leader with the audacity to speak ill of him because of his comically thin skin? He has already switched his stance in Putin multiple times. By committing war crimes, like those he has suggested in the ME? By tearing up an Iran deal hundreds of real experts and military generals have approved as good, or at least a step in the right direction?
Foreign policy is something Presidents have a huge impact on. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump is dangerous. How can anyone mess up foreign policy more than our favorite Nobel Peace Prize laureate and his trusty sidekick Secretary Benghazi? Who else could have destroyed half of North Africa, destroyed the Middle East and brought US-Russia relations back 30 years while at the same time continuing the downward spiral and alienation of Americas European allies. Muslims must love him for all the hard work he has done the past 8 years, only Trump could ruin that glowing image among Muslims. Why just yesterday, he even said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, sure he said he would close it down within a year every year since 2008 but he won't let us down this time... right guys? We should give him another Nobel Piece Prize, he only bombed 7 countries. Booo Trump for saying the US should not have meddled in the Middle East, practically Hitler. I'd say Bush did a pretty good job at destroying the Middle East, alienating European allies, letting Africa go to hell, and doing nothing to Russia besides looking into Putin's soul, so your rhetorical questions fall kind of flat here. When Bush left the only countries with active hostilities/insurgencies were Iraq, Afganistan and Yemen. I'm sure its much better over there now after 8 years. Maybe we can blame the catastrophe that was the Arab Spring on Bush too? let's just take a moment and realize that even blair himself apologized for his mistakes and admitted that he himself as well as the US administration of that time (Bush) are in parts responsible for what happened there going as far as saying that there would not be an Islamic State / Isis had the Iraq war not happened. Politicians don't usually blame themselves unless there's a good reason to do so
Blair was always hugely concerned with his legacy and made decisions with one eye on what the history books might later say about him. He hopes that if he apologizes the British public will forget that he's a war criminal who took our country into an illegal war against the stated will of the British public.
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