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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 24 2016 01:37 oneofthem wrote: he will run to the left of hillary on trade come general and get a bunch of low skill voters Yep. Trump is very well-positioned to steal some traditionally democratic voters. | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On February 24 2016 01:02 Plansix wrote: Nothing is going to dissuade his current supporters, but a recent gallup poll put independents at nearly 40% of the population nationwide. He is only invincible during this primary process. I doubt it will carry over to the general election where people are far less committed to a single party. There were people who thought he was a joke candidate from the start and that there was no way he'd be a serious contender. You guys may want to stop underestimating him, lol. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 24 2016 01:41 killa_robot wrote: There were people who thought he was a joke candidate from the start and that there was no way he'd be a serious contender. You guys may want to stop underestimating him, lol. I thought he was a joke as well, but I’ve been proven wrong. If he makes it to the nomination and is the Republican candidate, Democrats will take him seriously. And I don’t believe he can beat them once that happens. I would put his odds right up there with what Sarah Palin and Romney had. Winning the nomination of the increasingly dysfunctional and fractured Republican party is not winning the general elections. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 24 2016 00:08 KwarK wrote: Trump wants to not let Muslim citizens back into the US if they leave and try to come back, such as any Muslims serving in the US army who might be stationed abroad. If you're Muslim you can't enter. He also wants to end birth citizenship and deport the children of illegal immigrants who are legal American citizens. He really does want to deport citizens. I know that sounds crazy but that doesn't mean it's not something he said, he just says crazy shit. to be fair: while he did include american citizens in the innitial statement, that's one of the few statements that he backpaddled on and changed it to US (military personell) Muslims "only" getting stasi'd if they want to come back into the country | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
On February 24 2016 01:46 xDaunt wrote: So apparently Trump is even beating Kasich in Ohio polls. Yeah, this is looking pretty over. Fudged prior polls notwithstanding, Kasich is not very popular in Ohio so that result ought not surprise anyone. Kasich sucks  | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
our republican governor is worse than yours also good god i just realized he'd aged really badly. he may not have won the presidency, but looks like he went through 8 years of one. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 24 2016 01:53 ticklishmusic wrote: not as much as jindal tho our republican governor is worse than yours Snyder > Jindal > Kasich Also, a choice quote from one of his previous senior advisors: “Government is not a business ... and it cannot be run like one,” Schornack said. “The people of Flint got stuck on the losing end of decisions driven by spreadsheets instead of water quality and public health. Having been a Snyder staffer, luckily in a spreadsheet-rich area like transportation, I lived the culture amidst its faults.” http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/02/22/ex-snyder-aide-financial-focus-led-crisis-flint/80767216/ | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:16 Jibba wrote: Snyder > Jindal > Kasich Also, a choice quote from one of his previous senior advisors: I would argue that running a state or whatever like a business isn't a bad thing, it's just that these folks were basically shitty businessmen who didn't realize or know that financials =/= fundamentals. It's like share buybacks which are the dumbest thing ever, it creates no value and just artificially pumps up EPS with money that could be spent in actually growing the company. | ||
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oBlade
United States6072 Posts
On February 23 2016 19:54 Jibba wrote: I think you're too caught up on the idea of fairness (which is a common take I see from Asian Americans.) It's not simply that it's hard, it's that it's hard and in the meantime they face fairly dire straights and as a whole they make significant contributions when they're here. Your friend is far less likely to be immigrating for their own survival. Beyond that, we've become dependent on it. The level of immigration reform, and the expediency required, is never going to be achieved in today's political climate, yet at the same time tens of billions of dollars of our economy depends on those immigrants. It's not fair to your friend, but your friend is likely coming from a better situation and is more able to handle the hardship of the current process. Your friend is also likely to have a job that requires more of the government's attention than a minimum wage farm worker. For the sake of the country in the short term, we're better off that they turn a blind eye. Thank you for the random identity politics. I'm not "Asian American." It's true that billions of people around the world have quite hard or shitty lives. That's unfortunate. But you have some dots to connect before convincing me that having a shitty life combined with managing to set foot on a country's soil is sufficient reason for the country to let you stay there outside (or inside) the law. 11 million people's lives were not in extraordinary peril to make them come here. I'm very suspicious also when someone says our economy is dependent on people living here outside the law, working outside the protections of labor law, usually not paying taxes (even if only due to hardship). Is that the USA anyone wants? Bring in impoverished drone workers, exploit them, then claim there's nothing else we can do? This is the same argument... that the problem is insurmountable (really saying that it can't be fixed in a day) so we can't turn the ship in a direction to fix the whole system. On February 23 2016 14:27 GreenHorizons wrote: EDIT: Oh and Trump said he would deport the undocumented immigrant's American children too. Not sure how many there are, but with 11 million people Trump very well could be talking about deporting millions of Americans as well as the 11 million undocumented folks. First I hear that Trump's a monster because he's interested in deporting people who are here illegally, which would, although everyone keeps saying how impossible it is, also break up families and separate parents from their children. Yet if he wants to end unconditional birthright citizenship, he's a monster again. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:42 xDaunt wrote: There is no good justification for allowing illegal immigration. It's not humanitarian. It's not good for national security. It's not good for the economy. And it undermines the rule of law. Isn't like half of California's agricultural workforce illlegal atm? I guess people in California like having food on their table? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:44 Nyxisto wrote: Isn't like half of California's agricultural workforce illlegal atm? I guess people in California like having food on their table? Then bring them in legally and raise the price of food to be commensurate with increased pay (to the extent that it's necessary). Are you really going to argue in favor of indentured servitude? | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8742 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:34 ticklishmusic wrote: I would argue that running a state or whatever like a business isn't a bad thing, it's just that these folks were basically shitty businessmen who didn't realize or know that financials =/= fundamentals. It's like share buybacks which are the dumbest thing ever, it creates no value and just artificially pumps up EPS with money that could be spent in actually growing the company. no. the word republic comes from res publica. which is literally "public affairs". a business is a private entity, those are fundamentally different things that mustn't be confused with each other. sure skills needed to run a business or for someone in office are not that far apart actually, though there are different requirements needed in order to achieve certain goals. it basically boils down to shareholder vs. stakeholder. yes some business people will now say - but but jobs are good for everyone - which is true as well - though there are so many factors besides jobs public officials have to take into account when making decisions - reelection for one. and the pure economic approach kinda sucks anyway - flint's a good example no? saving money no matter the cost. as long as people keep their mouths shut everything will be fine. and even if you concede that they did not want to poison the people on purpose - which is very likely - grave negligence should easily be proven. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:46 xDaunt wrote: Then bring them in legally and raise the price of food to be commensurate with increased pay (to the extent that it's necessary). Are you really going to argue in favor of indentured servitude? No the work conditions aren't good but it's a fact that they're an important part of the workforce right now, so there is a benefit for the economy and it actually relies on them. So why not legalize their status right now instead of throwing them out first? Don't move the goalpost. I wasn't defending illegal labour, I was just saying that there is good reason to not deport those people. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And it will never happen. That is the reason why it has taken this long. The only reason to attempt it is pure spite and some hollow argument bout “holding up the law” that we failed to enforce for 15-20 years. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6272 Posts
On February 24 2016 02:34 ticklishmusic wrote: I would argue that running a state or whatever like a business isn't a bad thing, it's just that these folks were basically shitty businessmen who didn't realize or know that financials =/= fundamentals. It's like share buybacks which are the dumbest thing ever, it creates no value and just artificially pumps up EPS with money that could be spent in actually growing the company. Share buybacks do have a use. There's not always enough investment opportunity for companies and via buying back your shares you can return the money to shareholders instead of having it sit idle. | ||
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