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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 12 2016 01:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 01:37 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 00:15 oneofthem wrote: im not saying the standard is no good etc. it's just that it has to be flexible and open to uptake from ongoing practice. each district may even adapt to their own particular circumstances though that may require more resources.
i can also see some places trying to get around the standard by abusing this kind of a process so idk it's not very easy Which standard are you referring to? Common Core, like all state and national educational initiatives, are a list of standards and skills and practices. And it's 100% expected for them to be interpreted in context, based on specific schools and classes and students. That's never an issue. the instruction material basically. Do you mean the content? Do you disagree with any of the content in particular? Which content strands? I provided the Common Core links in a previous post. Do you mean how the content is being taught? Because, again, Common Core doesn't give teachers marching orders on how they need to instruct the individual classes; that's left up to the discretion of the individual teacher. not in particular but just saying the design of some of these problems should be revisable or adaptable to how a particular class is handling it.
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On February 12 2016 01:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 01:33 ticklishmusic wrote:On February 12 2016 01:23 Shin_Gouki wrote: Cbc endorsing Hillary Clinton seemed obvious, despite the slight hype of getting black voters. She continously shows how rooted she is in the establishment, especially since she won't release her fund raising efforts as bernie has attempted to. *cough* big donors. I love this narrative about how basically everyone who supports Hillary is the establishment... Hillary has had donations from over 700K people, including me. Yes it's lower than Bernie who has had 1M, but it's faaaaar from saying she's only able to raise money from bundlers and max contributors. It’s a troubling trend that reminds me of the tea party and their tendency to go full burn down if they don’t get exactly what they want. Of course, Sanders is going to endorse Hilary if she wins the nomination and hopefully he can pull his supporters over, rather than them just walking away.
Hillary is only attempting to show she's anti establishment because sanders is in the picture. She's always been a progressive/moderate who used the establishment to fight for what she wanted. It's quite different to compare her to the tea party and the Republican establishment.
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On February 12 2016 02:01 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 01:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 01:37 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 00:15 oneofthem wrote: im not saying the standard is no good etc. it's just that it has to be flexible and open to uptake from ongoing practice. each district may even adapt to their own particular circumstances though that may require more resources.
i can also see some places trying to get around the standard by abusing this kind of a process so idk it's not very easy Which standard are you referring to? Common Core, like all state and national educational initiatives, are a list of standards and skills and practices. And it's 100% expected for them to be interpreted in context, based on specific schools and classes and students. That's never an issue. the instruction material basically. Do you mean the content? Do you disagree with any of the content in particular? Which content strands? I provided the Common Core links in a previous post. Do you mean how the content is being taught? Because, again, Common Core doesn't give teachers marching orders on how they need to instruct the individual classes; that's left up to the discretion of the individual teacher. not in particular but just saying the design of some of these problems should be revisable or adaptable to how a particular class is handling it.
Of course! But that has nothing to do with Common Core, as Common Core isn't a list of math problems. I think you're referring to the fact that some books and publishing companies (e.g., Pearson) or some teachers might create poorly-worded math problems, and that's always a legitimate concern... and has been forever.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
yea the actual execution of this seems to be where most of the problem is coming from. the attempt to teach 'real' math is good in general.
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It just keeps getting better and better. Eventually, Bernie isn't going to have a choice but to start hammering Hillary on this issue.
At least a dozen email accounts handled the “top secret” intelligence that was found on Hillary Clinton’s server and recently deemed too damaging for national security to release, a U.S. government official close to the review told Fox News.
The official said the accounts include not only Clinton’s but those of top aides – including Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin, Jake Sullivan and Philippe Reines – as well as State Department Under Secretary for Management Patrick F. Kennedy and others. There is no public evidence they were authorized to receive the intelligence some of which was beyond Top Secret.
A second source not authorized to speak on the record said the number of accounts involved could be as high as 30 and reflects how the intelligence was broadly shared, replied to, and copied to individuals using the unsecured server.
“My contacts with former colleagues and current active duty personnel involved in sensitive programs reveal a universal feeling that the HRC issue is more serious than the general public realizes,” Dan Maguire, a former strategic planner with Africom, and with 46 years combined service, told Fox. “Most opine they would already be behind bars if they had apparently compromised sensitive information as reported.”
Without access to the actual e-mails, Maguire said it was hard to ascertain what damage might have been done by the disclosure of human spying intelligence and secret material.
“Either way, the intelligence community is undoubtedly conducting damage assessments and evaluating the viability of any ongoing operation that may have been exposed to unauthorized personnel. The vulnerability of HRC’s server to foreign government hacking cannot be overlooked - even the DCI, John Brennan, has been the target of hackers,” he said.
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Kennedy recently told the House Benghazi Select Committee that he knew about Clinton's personal email from the beginning, but did not understand the "scope" of its use for Clinton’s government business.
Kennedy's testimony now appears to conflict with emails released through the Freedom of Information Act that show he routinely sent and received government business from the Clintonemail.com account.
Toner said Kennedy learned about Clinton’s arrangement later. “He did not have knowledge of the computer server that she had set up [for] personal email or computer server she'd set up at her residence,” he said.
However, on the official State Department website, Patrick F. Kennedy’s biography says that he has worked for the department since 1993 and, in his current position as Under Secretary for Management, he is responsible for the “people, resources, budget, facilities, technology, financial operations, consular affairs, logistics, contracting, and security for Department of State operations.”
Source.
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Do you really think he needs to bring it up, though? It seems like Hillary is getting enough scrutiny from everyone else, that she'll keep getting hammered with the e-mail scandal while Bernie can just keep his hands clean.
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On February 12 2016 02:23 xDaunt wrote:It just keeps getting better and better. Eventually, Bernie isn't going to have a choice but to start hammering Hillary on this issue. Show nested quote +At least a dozen email accounts handled the “top secret” intelligence that was found on Hillary Clinton’s server and recently deemed too damaging for national security to release, a U.S. government official close to the review told Fox News.
The official said the accounts include not only Clinton’s but those of top aides – including Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin, Jake Sullivan and Philippe Reines – as well as State Department Under Secretary for Management Patrick F. Kennedy and others. There is no public evidence they were authorized to receive the intelligence some of which was beyond Top Secret.
A second source not authorized to speak on the record said the number of accounts involved could be as high as 30 and reflects how the intelligence was broadly shared, replied to, and copied to individuals using the unsecured server.
“My contacts with former colleagues and current active duty personnel involved in sensitive programs reveal a universal feeling that the HRC issue is more serious than the general public realizes,” Dan Maguire, a former strategic planner with Africom, and with 46 years combined service, told Fox. “Most opine they would already be behind bars if they had apparently compromised sensitive information as reported.”
Without access to the actual e-mails, Maguire said it was hard to ascertain what damage might have been done by the disclosure of human spying intelligence and secret material.
“Either way, the intelligence community is undoubtedly conducting damage assessments and evaluating the viability of any ongoing operation that may have been exposed to unauthorized personnel. The vulnerability of HRC’s server to foreign government hacking cannot be overlooked - even the DCI, John Brennan, has been the target of hackers,” he said.
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Kennedy recently told the House Benghazi Select Committee that he knew about Clinton's personal email from the beginning, but did not understand the "scope" of its use for Clinton’s government business.
Kennedy's testimony now appears to conflict with emails released through the Freedom of Information Act that show he routinely sent and received government business from the Clintonemail.com account.
Toner said Kennedy learned about Clinton’s arrangement later. “He did not have knowledge of the computer server that she had set up [for] personal email or computer server she'd set up at her residence,” he said.
However, on the official State Department website, Patrick F. Kennedy’s biography says that he has worked for the department since 1993 and, in his current position as Under Secretary for Management, he is responsible for the “people, resources, budget, facilities, technology, financial operations, consular affairs, logistics, contracting, and security for Department of State operations.” Source.
I would like to see bernie mention something, but at the same time no. Media will handle the hillary slamming and allow bernie to keep his campaign issue based.
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I think Bernie has more to gain by not bringing it up. People thinking "Wow, what a dude. such an easy jab but he's above it" is a lot better than the benefit of attacking her on it. Especially after he's made such a big deal of the emails NOT being a big deal.
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Agreed. He also doesn't want to seem opportunistic. Regardless of how bad the top secret emails were, the public opinion of those hearings and Benghazi Committee is still through the floor. He would need for that to change before he brings up the issue.
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On February 12 2016 02:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Do you really think he needs to bring it up, though? It seems like Hillary is getting enough scrutiny from everyone else, that she'll keep getting hammered with the e-mail scandal while Bernie can just keep his hands clean. I certainly get the point, but here's the problem with it: it presumes that the media is actually going to hammer Hillary. FoxNews is the only agency really investigating it. As far as I can tell, only conservative news outlets are really taking Hillary to task for it. Liberal/mainstream news outlets have been (understandably) hesitant to report on the story. Let's keep in mind that the primary elections are already under way. Time isn't on Bernie's side here. How long can Bernie realistically wait for other liberals/democrats to do his dirty work for him?
And maybe it's just me, but if I was a democrat, I would absolutely hate to have this kind of shit hanging over my nominee during the general election.
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I think that's a good point and that it might end up advantageous for Bernie to talk about it in certain, careful contexts... although that being said, I still suspect that he won't do it. Because he's Bernie.
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I don't think Bernie is ever going to really attack Hillary and most certainly not on the email issue. The guy wants to win on his message and unlike most politicians seems to have a sense of decency. He isn't going to stoop to character attacks.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
this seems to be more of a systematic issue at the top level of the state department. condi rice etc were also doing stuff like this but nothing as largescale as hillary's private server thing
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If Clinton had them on her private server from her personal email, wouldn't that also mean the people who send the Top Secret emails to her did so knowingly? And it sounds like the problem was wide spread, so are they going to charge everyone? Is there any evidence that the emails were accessed or compromised?
This is one of the problems I see with this whole investigation. It would be one thing of the data was leaked and quantifiable harm was done. But I haven't seen any of that and it gives the impression that who investigation was just digging around trying to find some bad practice.
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On February 12 2016 01:05 Plansix wrote: Education, in the vague sense, isn’t about learning a set of things. It is preparing the student to navigate the ever changing world and deal with all the hazards that entails. Knowing your multiplication tables is cool, but solving word problems is the thing that teaches the student how to apply math to real life.
The promised land of education is giving the students the skills to determine what career they want on their own and the ability to enter that career. But that requires that education expose students to lots of different options and experiences that may not be part of any overarching lesson plan, which leads people demand be justified as “educational”.
Which is why hyper focusing on test scores is a red herring. It railroads the student and teacher into focusing on a single aspect of the process as the most valuable.
Never seen the argument about word problems. They are so easy at the K-12 level to the point that you might as well write the equation out for the kid, and ramp up to near impossibility in the real world where the skill is in the accuracy in your assumptions weighed against the difficulty in solving the equations you end up writing.
On February 12 2016 02:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 02:01 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 01:37 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 00:15 oneofthem wrote: im not saying the standard is no good etc. it's just that it has to be flexible and open to uptake from ongoing practice. each district may even adapt to their own particular circumstances though that may require more resources.
i can also see some places trying to get around the standard by abusing this kind of a process so idk it's not very easy Which standard are you referring to? Common Core, like all state and national educational initiatives, are a list of standards and skills and practices. And it's 100% expected for them to be interpreted in context, based on specific schools and classes and students. That's never an issue. the instruction material basically. Do you mean the content? Do you disagree with any of the content in particular? Which content strands? I provided the Common Core links in a previous post. Do you mean how the content is being taught? Because, again, Common Core doesn't give teachers marching orders on how they need to instruct the individual classes; that's left up to the discretion of the individual teacher. not in particular but just saying the design of some of these problems should be revisable or adaptable to how a particular class is handling it. Of course! But that has nothing to do with Common Core, as Common Core isn't a list of math problems. I think you're referring to the fact that some books and publishing companies (e.g., Pearson) or some teachers might create poorly-worded math problems, and that's always a legitimate concern... and has been forever.
One complaint that I do have about CC math is a personal bias, but I do feel it is designed to place roadblocks in front of the faster students. And generally, to give students wrist pains because most of the CC solving methods are not (contrary to claims) about fostering intuition, they are more akin to turning kids into brute force solving machines where they can plug in any problem (of the exact same complexity level because the solving methods are not really scalable unless you have 30 pages of paper) and get the answer.
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On February 12 2016 03:00 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 01:05 Plansix wrote: Education, in the vague sense, isn’t about learning a set of things. It is preparing the student to navigate the ever changing world and deal with all the hazards that entails. Knowing your multiplication tables is cool, but solving word problems is the thing that teaches the student how to apply math to real life.
The promised land of education is giving the students the skills to determine what career they want on their own and the ability to enter that career. But that requires that education expose students to lots of different options and experiences that may not be part of any overarching lesson plan, which leads people demand be justified as “educational”.
Which is why hyper focusing on test scores is a red herring. It railroads the student and teacher into focusing on a single aspect of the process as the most valuable.
Never seen the argument about word problems. They are so easy at the K-12 level to the point that you might as well write the equation out for the kid, and ramp up to near impossibility in the real world where the skill is in the accuracy in your assumptions weighed against the difficulty in solving the equations you end up writing.
You have obviously never taught students. I can tell you from experience that a lot of students have major problems translating even simple sentences into mathematical equations. Some of them simply take any equation they know, and put all of the numbers that appear in the text into random spots therein. They often fail to translate something like "Both events have equal chances of happening" into a probability because there is not a number in there, and if the situation becomes slightly more complex, they completely lock up. That is a skill that they need to learn, or all of the maths they learn in school are utterly pointless.
Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 02:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 02:01 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 01:37 oneofthem wrote:On February 12 2016 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2016 00:15 oneofthem wrote: im not saying the standard is no good etc. it's just that it has to be flexible and open to uptake from ongoing practice. each district may even adapt to their own particular circumstances though that may require more resources.
i can also see some places trying to get around the standard by abusing this kind of a process so idk it's not very easy Which standard are you referring to? Common Core, like all state and national educational initiatives, are a list of standards and skills and practices. And it's 100% expected for them to be interpreted in context, based on specific schools and classes and students. That's never an issue. the instruction material basically. Do you mean the content? Do you disagree with any of the content in particular? Which content strands? I provided the Common Core links in a previous post. Do you mean how the content is being taught? Because, again, Common Core doesn't give teachers marching orders on how they need to instruct the individual classes; that's left up to the discretion of the individual teacher. not in particular but just saying the design of some of these problems should be revisable or adaptable to how a particular class is handling it. Of course! But that has nothing to do with Common Core, as Common Core isn't a list of math problems. I think you're referring to the fact that some books and publishing companies (e.g., Pearson) or some teachers might create poorly-worded math problems, and that's always a legitimate concern... and has been forever. One complaint that I do have about CC math is a personal bias, but I do feel it is designed to place roadblocks in front of the faster students. And generally, to give students wrist pains because most of the CC solving methods are not (contrary to claims) about fostering intuition, they are more akin to turning kids into brute force solving machines where they can plug in any problem (of the exact same complexity level because the solving methods are not really scalable unless you have 30 pages of paper) and get the answer.
Once again: Common Core does not entail any problems. I would suggest that you just take a random page out of the CC maths and read it. It mostly consists of sentences like:
Know that straight lines are widely used to model relationships between two quantitative variables. For scatter plots that suggest a linear association, informally fit a straight line, and informally assess the model fit by judging the closeness of the data points to the line.
For a function that models a relationship between two quantities, interpret key features of graphs and tables in terms of the quantities, and sketch graphs showing key features given a verbal description of the relationship. Key features include: intercepts; intervals where the function is increasing, decreasing, positive, or negative; relative maximums and minimums; symmetries; end behavior; and periodicity.*
As you can see, there is a lot of ways a teacher can approach those things, they just state what the students should be able to do after the teaching, not even how they should do it. There are a lot of different maths textbooks out there, some of which are good, some of which are bad. A good school will choose a good textbook that fits it well, and a good teacher will know when to use the textbook and when to use other tools at his disposal, if he disagrees with the way the book presents a topic.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 12 2016 01:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2016 00:56 LegalLord wrote: The idea of pretending that the multiplicative commutative law doesn't exist because matrices will become a thing 10 years down the line is pretty stupid. It adds unnecessary complexity and teaches nothing in a country where people are already pretty bad at math as a whole. I think you'll be happy to know that that's literally never an issue in elementary school. Students are generally introduced to the terms "commutative" and "associative" in grades 4-6, and they'll surely have discussions over which basic operations are commutative/ associative and which aren't... but I've never heard of a teacher say that "the multiplicative commutative law doesn't exist" because eventually they'll learn about matrices. And if a teacher did say that, it would be her fault for being remiss in her explanation, rather than the fault of the curriculum or Common Core. So don't worry It never should be an issue, that much is true. Indeed, there are few problems with CC in principle - it's a good idea to have a standardized curriculum that ensures a minimum quality of education everywhere.
Problem is that my example was actually a real one, where students were told that visualizing 3x5 as 5x3 is wrong. It's not, and an exercise like that doesn't teach you math on any useful level. A teacher who understands enough analysis even at a rudimentary level would have been able to understand that and teach it properly, but that isn't exactly an expected qualification at an elementary school level. A teacher who doesn't get it would just be imposing arbitrary rules and pissing people off.
Other issues I heard from teachers is about poor implementation and more arbitrary rules which seem to have merit at first glance, but that make students really miss the greater point if things are forced to be taught a certain way.
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Tuesday night, even as votes were being tallied in New Hampshire, the Supreme Court shocked many — including the Obama administration — by putting on hold the president’s signature climate policy, the Clean Power Plan, pending resolution of a lawsuit against it by a number of states, utilities and coal companies.
Everybody knew the Clean Power Plan would face major legal challenges, but few thought they’d significantly derail it so early on. One legal expert, the Sierra Club’s Bruce Nilles, told the Post it was “unprecedented for the Supreme Court to stay a rule at this point in litigation. They do this in death-penalty cases.”
Given litigation timelines, the move suggests that the fate of the plan now may not even be decided until after Obama has left office, in 2017. Moreover, the stay also suggests the Supreme Court’s conservative majority looks askance at the plan and sees the challenges against it as serious. This means the next president could now be a major player in setting — or un-making — the nation’s climate policy.
All of this has generated an uproar, and there will be much talk of how it embarrasses Obama on the world stage and undermines the U.S.’s position in the Paris climate negotiations, where the Clean Power Plan was key to demonstrating that as the world’s second largest emitter, we’re doing our part.
However, there’s another side of the story. The fact of the matter is that the Clean Power Plan wasn’t set to fully kick in until 2022 — and in the interim, the U.S. has been going through something that looks a lot like the kind of transition it is meant to prompt even without the plan in place.
Namely: The nation has been slowly decarbonizing its electricity system, through the growth of renewables and the switching from burning coal to burning natural gas.
The same day the Supreme Court stalled the Clean Power Plan, the U.S. Energy Information Administration released its monthly short term energy outlook. Here are some of the punchlines: Electricity from renewables is expected to grow 9.5 percent in 2016. “EIA expects utility-scale solar capacity will increase by about 80% (10 GW) between the end of 2015 and the end of 2017, with 4.1 GW of new capacity being built in California,” the agency adds (GW stands for gigawatt).
Meanwhile, total greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuel burning actually declined in 2015, by 2.2 percent, the agency estimates. One key reason for this is that coal use declined 12 percent in the electricity sector, with much more burning of natural gas instead. EIA expects that natural gas in 2016 will, as in 2015, give coal a run for its money in supplying electricity, thanks to quite low prices.
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I do think that is a lot of faith in the adaptability of people in their 40s and 50s who essentially have been doing one thing for 10, 15, 20 years. I think that a lot of the value of older teachers is in their familiarity with the material, and, in particular their familiarity with where students and parents will struggle with it. And I don't blame them for having trouble adapting, I wrote my law review article about this in regards to Federal Judges and Patent law, its simply harder at the age most people who are appointed to be able to do it well.
Edit: I think LL's post actually is pointing out some of the issues to which IMO this is a bit of the underlying cause.
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