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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2788

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 26 2016 00:35 GMT
#55741
On January 26 2016 08:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 07:58 Doublemint wrote:
The Harris County, Texas grand jury tasked with investigating Planned Parenthood announced today that it has decided not to indict the women's health provider. Instead, the grand jury has indicted David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt of the anti-abortion Center for Medical Progress. Last summer, their group released a series of secretly-recorded and deceptively-edited videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood officials discussing the sale of fetal tissue—which would be illegal.


MotherJones

Good, here is hoping they don't come off this easy.

Its nice to know bullshit doesn't go unpunished.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 26 2016 00:50 GMT
#55742
DES MOINES, IOWA — After weeks of road-testing the gloomy, death-of-the-American-dream message that his rivals are using, Marco Rubio on Monday brought his more positive, inspirational family story back to the center of his Iowa campaign.

And he used Iowa Republican Sen. Joni Ernst's first stop with him on the 2016 campaign trail to drive that message home.

“She did not grow up in privilege. In fact, her parents didn’t make a lot of money,” Rubio said of Ernst, describing how her parents would wrap her single pair of nice shoes in bags when it rained or snowed so that they wouldn’t be ruined. “She said she was never embarrassed by it because when she got on the bus, the other kids had the same thing, and that’s what she grew up in.”

Rubio told voters about how Ernst's story was similar to his family’s immigration experience and the story of his parents' success in rising from poverty to the middle class.

It was a return to his campaign’s original message. He aimed to convince voters Monday that America needs a new generation of leaders to guide the nation and keep opportunities open to all.

He then pivoted to his parents’ story, striking a far more positive tone than his opponents, whose stump speeches and voter interactions are largely fixated on the perception of a country in decline, economically and militarily.

“We celebrate success in America,” Rubio said before a crowd of a few hundred Iowa voters. “What makes us special is a little girl who grew up with plastic bags [on her] shoes and the son of a bartender and a maid [who] can serve the government at its highest levels.”

And while Rubio’s rivals — in both the conservative and more mainstream lanes of the 2016 contest — are relentlessly attacking one another’s character as well as their policy positions, Rubio didn’t reference a single Republican opponent on Monday. He reserved his criticism for President Barack Obama and Democratic policies.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23691 Posts
January 26 2016 02:27 GMT
#55743
Bernie killing the Dem Town Hall as expected. "Ask Hillary Clinton if she wants to increase the income cap on Social security"
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 02:36:16
January 26 2016 02:35 GMT
#55744
Never mind the fact that states that have legalized Marijuana have seen pain killer deaths, and overdoes drop across the board...

For many people struggling with opioid use, a key to success in recovery is having support. Some are getting that support from an unlikely place: their health insurer.

Amanda Jean Andrade, who lives west of Boston in a halfway house for addiction recovery, has been drug- and alcohol-free since October. It's the longest she's been off such substances in a decade. She gives a lot of the credit for that to her case manager, Will — who works for her insurance company.

"Having Will is the best thing in the world for me," Andrade says. "Because if I have the slightest issue with anything to do with my insurance that includes, like, prescriptions — even when I had a court issue — I know that I can call him."

Andrade's insurer is CeltiCare Health Plan, one of several health insurance companies in Massachusetts taking aggressive new steps to deal with the growing opioid epidemic. CeltiCare has about 50,000 members in the state, and mostly manages care for patients on Medicaid.

Insurers typically cover some inpatient substance use treatment and detox, says CeltiCare's president and CEO Jay Gonzalez, but those are only short-term solutions. After a patient is discharged, relapse — and readmission — are likely without follow-up support.

That's why CeltiCare assigns social workers to some of the people it insures.

"This is the biggest potential solution to this problem, I think, because at the end of the day we have to find the members who are or could be in trouble, and we need them to be invested in addressing their issues," Gonzalez says.

For CeltiCare, the costs related to the opioid epidemic are huge: Nearly a quarter of its hospital admissions are related to substance use, Gonzalez says. The insurer spent more than 10 percent of its budget last year on Suboxone, a medication to treat addiction to narcotics. That's more than it spent on any other drug.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
January 26 2016 02:46 GMT
#55745
On January 26 2016 11:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Never mind the fact that states that have legalized Marijuana have seen pain killer deaths, and overdoes drop across the board...

Show nested quote +
For many people struggling with opioid use, a key to success in recovery is having support. Some are getting that support from an unlikely place: their health insurer.

Amanda Jean Andrade, who lives west of Boston in a halfway house for addiction recovery, has been drug- and alcohol-free since October. It's the longest she's been off such substances in a decade. She gives a lot of the credit for that to her case manager, Will — who works for her insurance company.

"Having Will is the best thing in the world for me," Andrade says. "Because if I have the slightest issue with anything to do with my insurance that includes, like, prescriptions — even when I had a court issue — I know that I can call him."

Andrade's insurer is CeltiCare Health Plan, one of several health insurance companies in Massachusetts taking aggressive new steps to deal with the growing opioid epidemic. CeltiCare has about 50,000 members in the state, and mostly manages care for patients on Medicaid.

Insurers typically cover some inpatient substance use treatment and detox, says CeltiCare's president and CEO Jay Gonzalez, but those are only short-term solutions. After a patient is discharged, relapse — and readmission — are likely without follow-up support.

That's why CeltiCare assigns social workers to some of the people it insures.

"This is the biggest potential solution to this problem, I think, because at the end of the day we have to find the members who are or could be in trouble, and we need them to be invested in addressing their issues," Gonzalez says.

For CeltiCare, the costs related to the opioid epidemic are huge: Nearly a quarter of its hospital admissions are related to substance use, Gonzalez says. The insurer spent more than 10 percent of its budget last year on Suboxone, a medication to treat addiction to narcotics. That's more than it spent on any other drug.


Source


You are overly simplifying opioid-related deaths. Legalizing marijuana wouldn't solve it.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 03:12:55
January 26 2016 03:12 GMT
#55746
No but the tax money from legalization would fund prevention programs etc. Would it solve the crisis? No. But would go a long way.

Insurers have no interest in stopping it rather than just cashing in.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23691 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 03:26:47
January 26 2016 03:26 GMT
#55747
On January 26 2016 11:46 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 11:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Never mind the fact that states that have legalized Marijuana have seen pain killer deaths, and overdoes drop across the board...

For many people struggling with opioid use, a key to success in recovery is having support. Some are getting that support from an unlikely place: their health insurer.

Amanda Jean Andrade, who lives west of Boston in a halfway house for addiction recovery, has been drug- and alcohol-free since October. It's the longest she's been off such substances in a decade. She gives a lot of the credit for that to her case manager, Will — who works for her insurance company.

"Having Will is the best thing in the world for me," Andrade says. "Because if I have the slightest issue with anything to do with my insurance that includes, like, prescriptions — even when I had a court issue — I know that I can call him."

Andrade's insurer is CeltiCare Health Plan, one of several health insurance companies in Massachusetts taking aggressive new steps to deal with the growing opioid epidemic. CeltiCare has about 50,000 members in the state, and mostly manages care for patients on Medicaid.

Insurers typically cover some inpatient substance use treatment and detox, says CeltiCare's president and CEO Jay Gonzalez, but those are only short-term solutions. After a patient is discharged, relapse — and readmission — are likely without follow-up support.

That's why CeltiCare assigns social workers to some of the people it insures.

"This is the biggest potential solution to this problem, I think, because at the end of the day we have to find the members who are or could be in trouble, and we need them to be invested in addressing their issues," Gonzalez says.

For CeltiCare, the costs related to the opioid epidemic are huge: Nearly a quarter of its hospital admissions are related to substance use, Gonzalez says. The insurer spent more than 10 percent of its budget last year on Suboxone, a medication to treat addiction to narcotics. That's more than it spent on any other drug.


Source


You are overly simplifying opioid-related deaths. Legalizing marijuana wouldn't solve it.


Solve, no. Reduce, absolutely. Unfortunately cannabis can't be used for everything opioids are but it could also save a lot of lives lost as a result of depression and PTSD especially in the military.

Leaving it to the states and having the federal government just gtfo of it seems like it should be the easiest to make happen. At minimum though it needs to come off of Schedule 1, having it there is just nonsensical.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
January 26 2016 03:31 GMT
#55748
On January 26 2016 12:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
No but the tax money from legalization would fund prevention programs etc. Would it solve the crisis? No. But would go a long way.

Insurers have no interest in stopping it rather than just cashing in.


If tax revenue is a top 5 reason for legalizing weed for you, you are doing it wrong and will just end up with Eric Garner 2.0, except he will be selling dimebags.
Freeeeeeedom
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 03:44:29
January 26 2016 03:43 GMT
#55749
What? Are you operating under the assumption that single cigarette black market is pretty huge or something? Or that the taxes from tobacco are insignificant?

Or maybe that taxing anything is dumb?

I really don't get it.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
January 26 2016 03:46 GMT
#55750
Hillary is annoying. O'Malley is annoying and fake (although his policies are okay).
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 03:47:17
January 26 2016 03:46 GMT
#55751
Christ I'm surprised Chris Cuomo didn't just wear a Clinton 2016 shirt. This is becoming embarrassing and is just proving conspiracy theorists correct that Clinton is a manipulator and that she has the deck stacked in her favor.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
January 26 2016 03:52 GMT
#55752
On January 26 2016 12:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Christ I'm surprised Chris Cuomo didn't just wear a Clinton 2016 shirt. This is becoming embarrassing and is just proving conspiracy theorists correct that Clinton is a manipulator and that she has the deck stacked in her favor.

I did not get to watch the Clinton section tonight, what happened?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 04:02:53
January 26 2016 03:58 GMT
#55753
On January 26 2016 12:43 IgnE wrote:
What? Are you operating under the assumption that single cigarette black market is pretty huge or something? Or that the taxes from tobacco are insignificant?

Or maybe that taxing anything is dumb?

I really don't get it.


No, I'm saying that the idea that seeing legalization as a path to tax revenue is a mistake because there is already a huge black market, which will become a grey market if you raise marijuana taxes above just your simple sales taxes + a small %. Washington State is already experiencing suspiciously low tax revenues from their legalization efforts, and just like in NY you will have police raiding people who are selling ostensibly legal products because they don't have a stamp on them.

Edit.
Understand that in states that currently legalize, much of the price is taxes, regulations, and also the very real risk of being raided by the feds. In states without legalization the majority of the cost is associated with the chance of being caught growing it. Marijuana is easier to self-cultivate than either tobacco or making any kind of alcoholic product, its on par with growing your own tomatoes. Legalized marijuana (like fully legalized) means it will be incredibly cheap, or if taxed to being expensive will see gigantic underground transactions (since possession is no longer a crime its easy to undercut the taxed market).
Freeeeeeedom
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
January 26 2016 04:15 GMT
#55754
and if you legalized it federally?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
January 26 2016 04:45 GMT
#55755
On January 26 2016 12:58 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 12:43 IgnE wrote:
What? Are you operating under the assumption that single cigarette black market is pretty huge or something? Or that the taxes from tobacco are insignificant?

Or maybe that taxing anything is dumb?

I really don't get it.


No, I'm saying that the idea that seeing legalization as a path to tax revenue is a mistake because there is already a huge black market, which will become a grey market if you raise marijuana taxes above just your simple sales taxes + a small %. Washington State is already experiencing suspiciously low tax revenues from their legalization efforts, and just like in NY you will have police raiding people who are selling ostensibly legal products because they don't have a stamp on them.

Edit.
Understand that in states that currently legalize, much of the price is taxes, regulations, and also the very real risk of being raided by the feds. In states without legalization the majority of the cost is associated with the chance of being caught growing it. Marijuana is easier to self-cultivate than either tobacco or making any kind of alcoholic product, its on par with growing your own tomatoes. Legalized marijuana (like fully legalized) means it will be incredibly cheap, or if taxed to being expensive will see gigantic underground transactions (since possession is no longer a crime its easy to undercut the taxed market).


and how is that worse than collecting 0$ in taxes and locking people up in prison instead of them being stoned, but at least somewhat productive members of society?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 04:55:35
January 26 2016 04:53 GMT
#55756
On January 26 2016 13:15 IgnE wrote:
and if you legalized it federally?


Basically, the CO model represents what happens if its not federally legalized. If it is, each state that legalizes would gain only marginal tax revenue. In addition, the feds would also gain marginal revenue, particularly long term. Drug dealers would easily be able undercut high-tax states with their already in place infrastructure and now facing legitimate competition. Also, as I said, its so easy to grow yourself that its more likely to become a pest-plant than it is to become a revenue generator long term. You also have to understand how post-prohibition alcohol was still hard to make, and we didn't have the tech to have cheap microbrews on the black market (also taxes most places were negligible).

The point is the more legal it is, actually the less taxes you will get from it, because the assumption that it will be like tobacco, or the current black market prices wont totally collapse are false.

On January 26 2016 13:45 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 12:58 cLutZ wrote:
On January 26 2016 12:43 IgnE wrote:
What? Are you operating under the assumption that single cigarette black market is pretty huge or something? Or that the taxes from tobacco are insignificant?

Or maybe that taxing anything is dumb?

I really don't get it.


No, I'm saying that the idea that seeing legalization as a path to tax revenue is a mistake because there is already a huge black market, which will become a grey market if you raise marijuana taxes above just your simple sales taxes + a small %. Washington State is already experiencing suspiciously low tax revenues from their legalization efforts, and just like in NY you will have police raiding people who are selling ostensibly legal products because they don't have a stamp on them.

Edit.
Understand that in states that currently legalize, much of the price is taxes, regulations, and also the very real risk of being raided by the feds. In states without legalization the majority of the cost is associated with the chance of being caught growing it. Marijuana is easier to self-cultivate than either tobacco or making any kind of alcoholic product, its on par with growing your own tomatoes. Legalized marijuana (like fully legalized) means it will be incredibly cheap, or if taxed to being expensive will see gigantic underground transactions (since possession is no longer a crime its easy to undercut the taxed market).


and how is that worse than collecting 0$ in taxes and locking people up in prison instead of them being stoned, but at least somewhat productive members of society?

Its much better, I'm just saying its a dumb reason to legalize.
Freeeeeeedom
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43671 Posts
January 26 2016 04:53 GMT
#55757
I think he's just eager to get back to the "why even have laws if you're not willing to put people on trains to camps in East Germany if they refuse to follow them" argument. I'd not indulge him.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
January 26 2016 04:54 GMT
#55758
On January 26 2016 12:52 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 12:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Christ I'm surprised Chris Cuomo didn't just wear a Clinton 2016 shirt. This is becoming embarrassing and is just proving conspiracy theorists correct that Clinton is a manipulator and that she has the deck stacked in her favor.

I did not get to watch the Clinton section tonight, what happened?


1. He pounded Bernie Sanders on things over and over, even after he answered the questions.
2. His questions to Clinton were soooo softball. First Q was basically, "so Obama almost endorsed you and thinks you're awesome, how does that make you feel?!"

It was pretty weak sauce
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 07:09:13
January 26 2016 07:06 GMT
#55759
Not to mention she claimed credit for the Obama/Kerry Iran talks even though she came out against it. Blatant spin even more so than when she tried it in the first Democratic debate.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23691 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 09:37:50
January 26 2016 09:37 GMT
#55760
Damn, Rand Paul went HAM on Donald Trump on The Nightly Show.


"Donald Trump is a delusional narcissist and an orange-faced windbag, a speck of dirt is way more qualified to be president".


It was in the context of a comedy sketch, but still.

"I steadfastly said he is not Hitler, Goebbels maybe. But I seriously compared him to Gollum"
That part was in the interview.

As funny as I find Trump's leading and the responses from people like Rand and Jeb it is just a little scary. I mean when Trump loses the general it's not like all the people he riled up are going to disappear. I imagine they aren't going to be too happy with Clinton or Sanders either.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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