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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 17:07:50
December 10 2015 17:04 GMT
#52741
I find this absolutely hilarious:

Over the past five years, however, Obamacare has created a medical environment that discourages doctors from treating Medicare patients. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) has reported that almost 10,000 doctors opted out of Medicare in 2012 alone — a figure that is triple the number that opted out in 2009. Overall, the percentage of doctors who closed their practices to Medicare or Medicaid by 2012 had increased by 47 percent in just the four years since 2008.
With the enactment of Obamacare, the “Independent Payment Advisory Board” (IPAB) was created to reduce payments to doctors and hospitals. Consequently, IPAB, when in place, will likely limit the care available to Medicare beneficiaries by reducing payment rates to levels so low that doctors and hospitals would be unable to participate in the program, which in turn could harm patients and health outcomes.
Meanwhile, Medicare has grown to unsustainable proportions, with expenditures now topping $613 billion annually against income of $599 billion. Costs are universally expected to increase in the years ahead as people live longer and newer, more expensive medical advances emerge.


Obama is lowering Medicare reimbursement levels. That's bad. Medicare is too expensive. That is also Obama's fault. Did anyone even read this? Carson also makes zero mention of value-based care, which irritates me quite a bit.

Also, there's actually only 4 pages of text. The others are pictures of Carson and a summary of an already short document.

Link to plan for those interested
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43957 Posts
December 10 2015 17:06 GMT
#52742
Incidentally the SDA church is weird. Like really weird. Someone who escaped the church did an AMA on reddit last week.

1.) Christian cults don't generally involve dark robes, chanting, candles or anything like that, but there is a highly ritualistic way in which religion is worshiped. Saturday is the day of worship, but "Saturday" actually includes from the literal minute of sundown on Friday until the minute of sundown on Saturday. During that time certain dress codes must be followed and only certain activities can be done. What exactly that entails varies by church. For some you are not allowed to do any kind of physical exertion (play, cook, walk the dog, ride a bike, whatever) because it is considered a Holy Day of Rest. I always thought that it was so weird that my brothers were allowed to ride their bike on Fridays, but if they didn't stop before the exact minute of sundown then they were in huge trouble and would probably be grounded for a week. Ridiculously controlled. The clothing was relaxed formal (dresses for women, jean/khakis and sweaters/nice shirts for men). Shopping, ANY interaction that involved paying money, social activities (outside of Worship activities), and interacting with anyone outside of the church were all forbidden during the Day of Rest. Paying tithe was the only interaction involving money that was allowed. So, no robes, but plenty of control over actions and presentation. The actual church services themselves were pretty mainstream, but with some seriously dark fundamentalism thrown in and a fuck ton of Ellen G. White. Sometimes there would be months at a time when the bible wasn't even mentioned and every sermon and prayer meeting was reliant on White's books.
2.) As for social integration...there really wasn't any. Growing up in the cult, I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone outside of the faith because they were "worldly" and Satan had total control of everyone who is of the world. The best analogy I've come across is the Agent virus in the Matrix movies. You know how they could take over any person in the Matrix who wasn't unplugged? It's literally the same thing in the cult. They honest to god believe that all people outside of the cult are being continually influenced by a very literal Satan and that he can full on possess them to do things/say things that will turn you against Salvation. The only social contact I had outside of the cult until I turned 18 was basically with librarians (I read a lot) and that was only when my mom wasn't watching...which was a lot. My parents kept me and my brothers very isolated. And that is how it is for most of the cult members. The thing about SDAism is that it is EVERYWHERE. They go to their own people for everything. Any kind of business that could possibly need to be done, there is a SDA version owned and operated by SDAs and those are the only ones that the cult would go to unless absolutely necessary. To do otherwise was not only frowned upon, but could make a person be seen as "tainted by the world". Very heavy stuff.
3.) Everything about your life is controlled when you are in a cult. What you wear and when you wear it. Who you talk to and where you can go. What you can do and when you can do it. All of this controlled by the pastor's interpretation of Ellen G. White's interpretation of "God's Holy Word". ugh. It was a nightmare growing up in that. What didn't help is that since the entire thing is based on the pastor's interpreation of the text, it changed from church to church and my family moved a lot (31 times by my 18th birthday). For example, one church we attended forbid eating cheese and other dairy products. One member was seen eating a sandwich with cheese during the week and she was basically shunned and excommunicated. Another church didn't care if you ate dairy, but if the women's dresses weren't down to the ankles then you were a slutty harlot who was literally being controlled by demons. They believed in all of these things so literally. According to them demons are not only real, but they are EVERYWHERE and can influence everything. I was so terrified as a kid.


I spent my entire childhood terrified of everything. People, because they could have been possessed, animals because demons can posses those too, etc. Very scary. Also, in the cult they teach that everything you think has the same consequences as of you had actually done the thing. You know how sometimes random messed up shit just pops into your head for no reason? Yeah, those were hard to deal with.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 10 2015 17:12 GMT
#52743
Just remember that according to the internet, someone’s personal beliefs shouldn’t disqualify them from being President or their ideas from consideration. Everything should be viewed “objectively” and you shouldn’t take into account that Ben Carson believes the world could end in like 15 years and science is a lie.

And if a hobo tells you the best cure for the flu is to drink a pint of brandy, you should review his suggestion objectively and test it to see if its valid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 10 2015 17:16 GMT
#52744
Jeb Bush's operation has spent an incredible amount of money already during this campaign — to no apparent effect.

According to ad-buying data from SMG Delta, posted by Mark Murray of NBC News, Bush's Super PAC and campaign have already spent a massive $32.5 million on ads in total — far, far more than the operation of any other GOP candidate.

In fact, Team Bush's spending is twice as much as the combined money spent on ads for the top four GOP candidates in the polls — Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson. Yet Bush remains in the low single digits in polls nationally and in early states.

Check out this graphic of SMG Delta's numbers showing how little apparent relation there is between ad spending and poll numbers:

[image loading]

Of course, most of this advertising money has been spent on early states like Iowa and New Hampshire, not on nationwide ad buys — so we wouldn't necessarily expect it to affect national polls.

Yet early state polling numbers are barely different. The top four candidates in Iowa and New Hampshire polls are the same as the national top four, according to the HuffPost Pollster and RealClearPolitics averages. (They are Trump, Cruz, and Carson, who have all spent very little on ads, and Rubio, whose dark money operation, Super PAC, and campaign have combined for $13.1 million so far.)

In New Hampshire, there may be some small ad impact among the second tier. Bush, Chris Christie, and John Kasich, whose operations have each spent $7 million or more on ads overall (and much of that in New Hampshire), are each running a few points ahead of where they are nationally. But that's not saying much — they're all stuck with just single-digit support.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43957 Posts
December 10 2015 17:18 GMT
#52745
There are different levels to it. Romney was LDS but for him that was just his religious life. I think LDS is a little weird but honestly when you get right down to it it's no weirder than anything else. I didn't feel like it would impact his professional life or his ability to do a job.

Now Carson, Carson seems unable to understand reality through anything other than a SDA filter and when they don't match up he decides that reality must be wrong. Given the apocalyptic teachings of the SDA church and his track record of stating that a realer truth can be found in the teachings of the church that overrides observations about the world, this is an issue.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 17:20:21
December 10 2015 17:18 GMT
#52746
Haha, Jeb Bush.

But right now his lack of notoriety is actually helping him.
Trump says something outrageous, the world is up in arms.
Bush says something far more outrageous, nobody cares at all.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15365 Posts
December 10 2015 17:39 GMT
#52747
When I was in the US my roommate was a devout SDA. Yep, really weird.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4751 Posts
December 10 2015 17:59 GMT
#52748
On December 11 2015 02:06 KwarK wrote:
Incidentally the SDA church is weird. Like really weird. Someone who escaped the church did an AMA on reddit last week.

Show nested quote +
1.) Christian cults don't generally involve dark robes, chanting, candles or anything like that, but there is a highly ritualistic way in which religion is worshiped. Saturday is the day of worship, but "Saturday" actually includes from the literal minute of sundown on Friday until the minute of sundown on Saturday. During that time certain dress codes must be followed and only certain activities can be done. What exactly that entails varies by church. For some you are not allowed to do any kind of physical exertion (play, cook, walk the dog, ride a bike, whatever) because it is considered a Holy Day of Rest. I always thought that it was so weird that my brothers were allowed to ride their bike on Fridays, but if they didn't stop before the exact minute of sundown then they were in huge trouble and would probably be grounded for a week. Ridiculously controlled. The clothing was relaxed formal (dresses for women, jean/khakis and sweaters/nice shirts for men). Shopping, ANY interaction that involved paying money, social activities (outside of Worship activities), and interacting with anyone outside of the church were all forbidden during the Day of Rest. Paying tithe was the only interaction involving money that was allowed. So, no robes, but plenty of control over actions and presentation. The actual church services themselves were pretty mainstream, but with some seriously dark fundamentalism thrown in and a fuck ton of Ellen G. White. Sometimes there would be months at a time when the bible wasn't even mentioned and every sermon and prayer meeting was reliant on White's books.
2.) As for social integration...there really wasn't any. Growing up in the cult, I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone outside of the faith because they were "worldly" and Satan had total control of everyone who is of the world. The best analogy I've come across is the Agent virus in the Matrix movies. You know how they could take over any person in the Matrix who wasn't unplugged? It's literally the same thing in the cult. They honest to god believe that all people outside of the cult are being continually influenced by a very literal Satan and that he can full on possess them to do things/say things that will turn you against Salvation. The only social contact I had outside of the cult until I turned 18 was basically with librarians (I read a lot) and that was only when my mom wasn't watching...which was a lot. My parents kept me and my brothers very isolated. And that is how it is for most of the cult members. The thing about SDAism is that it is EVERYWHERE. They go to their own people for everything. Any kind of business that could possibly need to be done, there is a SDA version owned and operated by SDAs and those are the only ones that the cult would go to unless absolutely necessary. To do otherwise was not only frowned upon, but could make a person be seen as "tainted by the world". Very heavy stuff.
3.) Everything about your life is controlled when you are in a cult. What you wear and when you wear it. Who you talk to and where you can go. What you can do and when you can do it. All of this controlled by the pastor's interpretation of Ellen G. White's interpretation of "God's Holy Word". ugh. It was a nightmare growing up in that. What didn't help is that since the entire thing is based on the pastor's interpreation of the text, it changed from church to church and my family moved a lot (31 times by my 18th birthday). For example, one church we attended forbid eating cheese and other dairy products. One member was seen eating a sandwich with cheese during the week and she was basically shunned and excommunicated. Another church didn't care if you ate dairy, but if the women's dresses weren't down to the ankles then you were a slutty harlot who was literally being controlled by demons. They believed in all of these things so literally. According to them demons are not only real, but they are EVERYWHERE and can influence everything. I was so terrified as a kid.


Show nested quote +
I spent my entire childhood terrified of everything. People, because they could have been possessed, animals because demons can posses those too, etc. Very scary. Also, in the cult they teach that everything you think has the same consequences as of you had actually done the thing. You know how sometimes random messed up shit just pops into your head for no reason? Yeah, those were hard to deal with.


Thats sounds crazier than Jehowas Witnesses (i have some in a family). But i guess in US they might be more hardcore.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
December 10 2015 18:00 GMT
#52749
A political adviser to Donald Trump says the campaign does not have to worry about pursuing the Hispanic vote since most Latinos who do not like the GOP frontrunner are here illegally.

Michael Cohen, an attorney and executive in the Trump organization who is helping the candidate with his outreach to African Americans, acknowledged to Yahoo News that that there are Hispanic coalitions that don't like Trump, but incorrectly confined that dislike to people who can't turn out to the polls.

"And that's OK because the ones that don't like Trump aren't even here legally and they can't vote, so it doesn't really matter, right? And I understand their point of view. They're — they do not want to be asked to leave right? And go back where? Go back to their homes? You know they don't want to. So I understand," Cohen said in the story published Thursday.

Some three-quarters of the Latino population has American citizenship. In addition, there are millions more Latinos who are legal permanent residents and eligible for citizenship. Groups this election are targeting some of those Latinos to get their citizenship to become registered voters. The Latino Victory Foundation announced such a campaign on Thursday.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/trump-adviser-hispanics-who-dont-trump-are-here-illegally-n477726
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 18:03:53
December 10 2015 18:02 GMT
#52750
In the subject of real political news, No Child Left Behind has been altered to make more sense and removed the requirement for teacher performance being tied directly student performance. States can now make their own performance assessment plans, rather than test students into the grounds. And Common Core is pretty much done. Rejoice to the end of one size fits the entire nation education.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article48961030.html

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 18:06:18
December 10 2015 18:05 GMT
#52751
On December 11 2015 01:31 frazzle wrote:
I just assume everyone here has seen this:



Best part imho was "Trump steaks are by far the best tasting most flavorful beef you ever had"



Lol that was pretty funny.
I hope the people who make these vids do realize that vids like this are actually helping trump.
Its not only the free publicity, starwars is cool and even the empire is cool,its the biggest empire there ever was and americans love big. The big ship you see at the start is bad ass and the trump sign on top is just brilliant lol. He is being identified with all this in a funny way and displayed as a very powerfull leader.

The people making vids against trump realy should get their act together.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 18:09:37
December 10 2015 18:08 GMT
#52752
On December 11 2015 03:02 Plansix wrote:
In the subject of real political news, No Child Left Behind has been altered to make more sense and removed the requirement for teacher performance being tied directly student performance. States can now make their own performance assessment plans, rather than test students into the grounds. And Common Core is pretty much done. Rejoice to the end of one size fits the entire nation education.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article48961030.html



It's interesting. NCLB was one of Bush's... more well-meaning efforts. The intentions were good, but the science and execution were terrible. I have higher hopes for these new guidelines though.

This NY Times editorial is pretty good reading about it.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 10 2015 18:11 GMT
#52753
On December 11 2015 03:02 Plansix wrote:
In the subject of real political news, No Child Left Behind has been altered to make more sense and removed the requirement for teacher performance being tied directly student performance. States can now make their own performance assessment plans, rather than test students into the grounds. And Common Core is pretty much done. Rejoice to the end of one size fits the entire nation education.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article48961030.html



What I don't get about the education complainers, is what did you expect from federal funding for education? That they would just give free money away with no strings attached? Of course they were going to tie it to generalized, mundane, and occasionally nonsensical rules. Plus, I mean, if teachers aren't comfortable being evaluated on student performance, that seems pretty telling about their perception of their own value.
Freeeeeeedom
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 18:11:48
December 10 2015 18:11 GMT
#52754
Three candidates for the Republican nomination have broken away from the rest of the pack, and two of them — businessman Donald Trump and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz — give the GOP establishment nightmares.

That leaves the third member of the trio, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, potentially well placed to pick up the support of center-right Republican voters who are looking for someone to stop Trump and Cruz at almost any cost.

But Rubio is behind both of his top-tier rivals in national polling averages and is even further back in Iowa, home to the first-in-the-nation caucuses, where he holds fourth place, albeit behind the fast-fading Ben Carson.
An even deeper problem for the Florida senator is that other candidates who are competing for the same voters are unlikely to drop out before the New Hampshire primary. That means votes that might otherwise go to Rubio could instead be won by contenders such as former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

Add all these factors together and it becomes clear why establishment Republicans are so concerned, especially in the wake of Trump’s inflammatory call to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Cruz, meanwhile, has been enjoying a rapid rise in the polls.

“Listen, I think both Cruz and Trump would have a similar impact on the party, neither of which would be very good. I am actually more concerned about Cruz than I am about Trump,” said GOP strategist John Feehery, a former senior leadership aide who is a columnist for The Hill.

Feehery added, “I think Cruz has made a reputation of relentless mendacity ... I think he’s a demagogue and I think he’ll destroy the party. I think Trump is much more of a blowhard. But there’s not really a dime’s worth of difference between Trump and Cruz.”

As of Wednesday afternoon, Trump sat atop the RealClearPolitics national polling average, with the backing of 29.3 percent of GOP voters, with Cruz in second, at 15.5 percent. Rubio was just behind, with 14.8 percent. In Iowa, where the first caucuses will be held on Feb. 1, Cruz runs much closer, with 22.3 percent average support to Trump’s 25.7 percent. Rubio is farther behind in the Hawkeye State than nationally, drawing 13.7 percent backing.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 10 2015 18:33 GMT
#52755
On December 11 2015 03:11 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 03:02 Plansix wrote:
In the subject of real political news, No Child Left Behind has been altered to make more sense and removed the requirement for teacher performance being tied directly student performance. States can now make their own performance assessment plans, rather than test students into the grounds. And Common Core is pretty much done. Rejoice to the end of one size fits the entire nation education.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article48961030.html



What I don't get about the education complainers, is what did you expect from federal funding for education? That they would just give free money away with no strings attached? Of course they were going to tie it to generalized, mundane, and occasionally nonsensical rules. Plus, I mean, if teachers aren't comfortable being evaluated on student performance, that seems pretty telling about their perception of their own value.

Because it is like providing a rating system for attorneys by cases won and how much they have earned for their clients in judgments. And then the government mandating that be on their BAR card and online records. I am sure someone would think that is a measurement of success, but its not what being an attorney is about.

Because its a shit metric that encouraged bad behavior from teachers and poor teaching. Performance is measured by test scores made by a 3rd party that might not be a good test. And then the teachers have to focus on specific subjects, rather than catering the lesson plan to specific areas students find interesting.

Education sin't about teaching kids to vomit out facts onto a test. Tests are a necessary evil of education, but not its core. The goal of education is to equip students with the ability to learn, communicate and find success in the modern world. And there is no test for that and focusing on tests takes away from that process.

And frankly, good schools and amazing teachers existed long before no child left behind and federal mandates that teachers should earn federal dollars through test scores. It was an unnecessary rule created with the idea 'If they are good teachers, this won't be a problem. The bad ones will leave or do score badly".
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 10 2015 18:37 GMT
#52756
On December 11 2015 03:11 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 03:02 Plansix wrote:
In the subject of real political news, No Child Left Behind has been altered to make more sense and removed the requirement for teacher performance being tied directly student performance. States can now make their own performance assessment plans, rather than test students into the grounds. And Common Core is pretty much done. Rejoice to the end of one size fits the entire nation education.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article48961030.html



What I don't get about the education complainers, is what did you expect from federal funding for education? That they would just give free money away with no strings attached? Of course they were going to tie it to generalized, mundane, and occasionally nonsensical rules. Plus, I mean, if teachers aren't comfortable being evaluated on student performance, that seems pretty telling about their perception of their own value.


Well, not all students are created equal. There are plenty of problems with teacher's unions and stuff, but at the end of the day teachers are craftsmen of varying skill with materials (students) of varying quality and temperament. Note: I don't want to make students seem like a commodity or product, but I think the analogy is okay.

I think we really need an emphasis on using better teaching methods, like those which have been validated by research and such instead of focusing so much on outcomes.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Cowboy64
Profile Joined April 2015
115 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 18:47:32
December 10 2015 18:47 GMT
#52757
On December 11 2015 02:12 Plansix wrote:
Just remember that according to the internet, someone’s personal beliefs shouldn’t disqualify them from being President or their ideas from consideration. Everything should be viewed “objectively” and you shouldn’t take into account that Ben Carson believes the world could end in like 15 years and science is a lie.

And if a hobo tells you the best cure for the flu is to drink a pint of brandy, you should review his suggestion objectively and test it to see if its valid.

How did you feel about Carson saying he wouldn't support a Muslim being President?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 10 2015 18:51 GMT
#52758
On December 11 2015 03:47 Cowboy64 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 02:12 Plansix wrote:
Just remember that according to the internet, someone’s personal beliefs shouldn’t disqualify them from being President or their ideas from consideration. Everything should be viewed “objectively” and you shouldn’t take into account that Ben Carson believes the world could end in like 15 years and science is a lie.

And if a hobo tells you the best cure for the flu is to drink a pint of brandy, you should review his suggestion objectively and test it to see if its valid.

How did you feel about Carson saying he wouldn't support a Muslim being President?

The exact same way I would if someone said a buddhist couldn't be president. I would think they didn't know what they were talking about.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
December 10 2015 18:52 GMT
#52759
Isn't the president already muslim?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43957 Posts
December 10 2015 18:53 GMT
#52760
On December 11 2015 03:52 Soap wrote:
Isn't the president already muslim?

I heard he was an atheist which is dumb because who does he worship on Sundays if he's an atheist.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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