In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
I'm seeing people on social media say the white girl who didn't get into UT feels entitled because she's white. The fact that people are saying this when affirmative action is being discussed...good lord.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
I doubt many k-12 students willingly chose to move across the world. OTOH, these student have higher income / better educated parents than general population, as they have the means and skill to move, so your overall point is still valid.
On December 11 2015 04:54 Mohdoo wrote: I'm seeing people on social media say the white girl who didn't get into UT feels entitled because she's white. The fact that people are saying this when affirmative action is being discussed...good lord.
Once I saw all of social media freak out about a llama on the run and creating amazing fiction as to why the police and animal control couldn’t catch it. So I don’t believe this is the a serious issue.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Funnily enough we have the same "the teaching profession used to mean something, nowadays every skilled person goes into the private sector" discussions all the time. I don't think we're such a shiny example of primary and secondary education either, we aren't scoring that well in international comparison.
I don't think the way teachers are employed is in any way responsible for this though. Zealous evaluation or rigid performance based systems are absolutely poisonous for the workplace generally. It will probably lead to all kinds of manipulated tests or silly measurements to make yourself look better at the end of the year without actually achieving anything.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
College football actually makes money for the colleges. If not directly in revenue the certainly in donations directly attributable to the football program. That money although goes almost entirely to fund title IX aka womens college atheletic scholarships and other non profit making sports in the NCAA.
Also this is more about k-12 education that we're talking about not higher learning (which is a whole nother can of worms).
As someone who was going to be a teaching, there is no economic reason to go into teaching at a public school. The pay sucks, the hours suck, you have to deal with endless paperwork, parents that think you are their employee and state requirements to educate yourself during the summer. All the best teachers in our school district move on the private schools that pay more and provide better support in general. The schoool can also tell parents to fuck off, which is a perk. The friend I talked about earlier is moving to charter school at the end of the year because the pay is nearly a third more.
For education in the US to be competitive, it needs to attract the best and the brightest to teach. The first step to that is not making it an extremely stupid financial decision to teach in a public school over any other profession.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
Well, the numbers listed weren't for college/university. There is a breakdown in to categories, but here is the source for one of those documents, in which the breakdown is more thorough.
A discussion of K-12 education funding in the United States that fails to account for fairly widespread reliance on local tax levy-based funding schemes and the effect of deficient local district finance practice is simply inadequate. Yes, employment cost ballooning related union influence is worth a discussion, but it fails to recognize the fact that distorted state/federal incentive programs and incompetent/outdated district budgeting cultures also play figurative roles in the spotty quality of public education.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
College football actually makes money for the colleges. If not directly in revenue the certainly in donations directly attributable to the football program. That money although goes almost entirely to fund title IX aka womens college atheletic scholarships and other non profit making sports in the NCAA.
Also this is more about k-12 education that we're talking about not higher learning (which is a whole nother can of worms).
Its not about making money or not. If your counting money spend on College football in a comparison of spending per student to rank schools your fudging the numbers. That money spend doesn't help their education.
But my bad, I thought this was for higher educations aswell. It is probably a lot less interference at k-12. Those the previous point made about pensions and healthcare is still valid.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
College football actually makes money for the colleges. If not directly in revenue the certainly in donations directly attributable to the football program. That money although goes almost entirely to fund title IX aka womens college atheletic scholarships and other non profit making sports in the NCAA.
Also this is more about k-12 education that we're talking about not higher learning (which is a whole nother can of worms).
regarding college football I think only the larger programs make money. that being said most schools wouldn't save that much money by dropping football but thats due to complicated stuff like title 9.
On December 11 2015 05:42 Plansix wrote: As someone who was going to be a teaching, there is no economic reason to go into teaching at a public school. The pay sucks, the hours suck, you have to deal with endless paperwork, parents that think you are their employee and state requirements to educate yourself during the summer. All the best teachers in our school district move on the private schools that pay more and provide better support in general. The schoool can also tell parents to fuck off, which is a perk. The friend I talked about earlier is moving to charter school at the end of the year because the pay is nearly a third more.
For education in the US to be competitive, it needs to attract the best and the brightest to teach. The first step to that is not making it an extremely stupid financial decision to teach in a public school over any other profession.
But how are you going to get federal and state funding into schools without any accountability for where those dollars are coming from? If not from there how can you expect Atlanta public schools to compete on the same financial playing field as Raleigh? A lot of the costs in Public schools as oppose to charter schools comes from unfunded mandates on special needs kids. Not even talking then about the situation in administration where you have competition from the private sector driving up costs for competent leaders for these schools.
If it were as simple as "pay teachers more" then it would have been tried and proven a success by now. Friction from the teachers unions at any sight of school reform have crippled the progressives in this countries ability to progress on the issue.
On December 11 2015 05:45 farvacola wrote: A discussion of K-12 education funding in the United States that fails to account for fairly widespread reliance on local tax levy-based funding schemes and the effect of deficient local district finance practice. Yes, employment cost ballooning related union influence is worth a discussion, but it fails to recognize the fact that distorted state/federal incentive programs and incompetent/outdated district budgeting cultures also play figurative roles in the spotty quality of public education.
My home town has 900 people in it. We couldn’t even afford to build a new elementary school and couldn’t raise taxes to due to a local law preventing tax hikes. I went to 5th grade in a basement and learned while sitting next to a boiler. The school as condemned(like legit closed) when I was 18 and the state threatened put the entire education program into receivership. It took 4 years and busing kids all over the county before we got a new school through federal grants.
The response from the town was why would a school need a computer in each class room in 2003. And you can hear stories like this all over the US because towns can’t afford and don’t value their education. And the states are not required to assist them, so we lag behind and always will until we ditch this garbage system.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Not just the ones that moved in the last generation. Its a deep trend that lasts even if you look at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation Americans.
On December 11 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
There is no evidence to indicate that schools are underfunded (as a whole they are overfunded) and only specious evidence that doesn't account for Undergraduate/Graduate degree quality that teachers are underpaid (similarly, most civil servants are overpaid, so using them as a point of comparison is similarly specious). Germany spends less per student than America, so once again, nonsense.
Yet Germany pays its teachers more than the US on average and with the social safety net of the German system. They also dont' quit and appear to some work 70-80 hours a week per the account below
The problem with teaching in the US is that it isn't a respected profession and people don't want to pay for it. You can rail against how terrible it is, but testing firing teachers isn't going make the system magically better. Same with testing. Raising standard might, but the US not undervaluing education is the root of our national problem.
Once again, I rarely agree with cLutZ, but he is correct that the US spends as much as anyone, and strictly speaking more than Germany, per capita on education for both primary and secondary (high school) schooling.
But I think you make an important point in your post. A significant chunk of US education spending concerns "benefits", and while it would take more digging to break the numbers down, I don't doubt that with benefits such as health care and pension falling under school spending rather than being rolled into national non-educational spending, this has a bit to do with distorting the national comparisons you can find online. Take those out of the equation and I wouldn't be surprised to see that the US is situated more toward the bottom of western countries when it comes to education spending.
Yeah if those numbers are just total budget divided by students then its meaningless because of all sorts of interference. Heck does it also include the money spend on collage football leagues?
College football actually makes money for the colleges. If not directly in revenue the certainly in donations directly attributable to the football program. That money although goes almost entirely to fund title IX aka womens college atheletic scholarships and other non profit making sports in the NCAA.
Also this is more about k-12 education that we're talking about not higher learning (which is a whole nother can of worms).
regarding college football I think only the larger programs make money. that being said most schools wouldn't save that much money by dropping football but thats due to complicated stuff like title 9.
Well thats why you have different standards for the different divisions of football programs, FSB and FBS for D1 bowl games and then the schools that have 100k plus seater stadiums on things like the amount of scholarships you can field and how much you pay your staff. . They all make money even if its off the back of unpaid athletes.
On December 11 2015 02:12 Plansix wrote: Just remember that according to the internet, someone’s personal beliefs shouldn’t disqualify them from being President or their ideas from consideration. Everything should be viewed “objectively” and you shouldn’t take into account that Ben Carson believes the world could end in like 15 years and science is a lie.
And if a hobo tells you the best cure for the flu is to drink a pint of brandy, you should review his suggestion objectively and test it to see if its valid.
How did you feel about Carson saying he wouldn't support a Muslim being President?
The exact same way I would if someone said a buddhist couldn't be president. I would think they didn't know what they were talking about.
Seventh Day Adventists are out, but Muslims are in?
Sorta. Christians and Muslims both "in," but crazy shit like SDA or Salafism out. I'm a socially-liberal, doctrinally-conservative protestant Christian, so I'd prefer that when I can get it, but as long as they're feminist, pro-racial equality, pro-charity, anti-superstition, etc. I can deal. Pro-equal marriage or pro-creation-stewardship are bonuses if I can get 'em.
On December 11 2015 02:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
That may be the ugliest chart I've seen all year. You have several data sets over two variables, dammit, use a damn scatterplot.
On December 11 2015 04:34 cLutZ wrote: If you compare Germans in America to Germans in Germany, their performance tracks similarly, or even higher in America, and that is true across a wide spectrum of countries.
You mean students willing to uproot and move across half the world to study are more dedicated then the average student? Next your going to tell me the earth isn't flat.
Also Germany taxes its population and funds schools to an adequate level. And the testing is within reason. Americans just don't give a fuck about education and think that testing teachers is the solution. "Grade them and see how they like it. Fire the bad ones and then we can get new, better teachers. But for the love of god, don't raise the pay. No way higher pay would make the field more competitive and my taxes might go up. Test them, that doesn't cost money."
Can't we just do both? You know make it easy to fire them, but pay them well. Like other fields where shit works?
EPT![[image loading]](https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8VreHGz0hRGDb-YiwgfTS0rzRA4=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4340243/Ad_spendingVspolls2-1.jpg)
