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On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
You need to be more specific.
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
about professors, a large part of some of their workday is to take some piece of culture and critically analyze. this involves looking at accepted and normed stuff.
the professor can be right yet appear out of touch, these are not contradictory.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Kids now-a-days on campus' live in fantasy lala land far outside reality. Colleges used to be places of learning, intellectual challenge, and broadening ones skills and knowledge. Now, it's just a place of censorship, paranoia, and quite frankly, a place for little kids to act like childish spoiled brats. The people represented in these videos are not anomalies - they're the new 'norm'. Quite frankly, these people will get a rude awakening once their adolescent sheltering is replaced by hard reality. I only hope they grow up before they vote en mass.
College institutions meant to be home LMAO. Who believes this non-sense...
A Native American tribe that sought to open the nation's first marijuana resort, in South Dakota, burned its crop after federal officials said a raid was possible, the tribal president said Monday.
Flandreau Santee Sioux President Anthony Reider told The Associated Press the tribe had three weeks of discussions with authorities that culminated with a meeting in Washington that included a Justice Department official and U.S. Attorney for South Dakota Randolph Seiler.
Reider said the tribe wasn't told a raid was imminent — only that one was possible if the government's concerns weren't addressed. He said the main holdup is whether the tribe may sell marijuana to non–Native Americans. Also at issue is the origin of the seeds used for its crop.
Calls by the AP to the Justice Department's Office of Tribal Justice weren't immediately returned. A spokesman for Seiler said he would have no comment.
The tribe had planned to open a lounge selling marijuana on New Year's Eve. It was the first tribe in South Dakota to legalize the drug after the U.S. Department of Justice's decision last year to allow tribes to do so on tribal land.
Typical Lucy with the football for our indigenous brothers and sisters. The head of the DEA is clearly a moron when it comes to substances especially cannabis.
On November 10 2015 03:53 Plansix wrote: In the era of MLK, there were protester that showed as much anger and rage as current protesters. And not all of them were perfect Criticizing specific protests is fine, but I find the overall focus on them to be a distraction from the issue they are protesting. We don't need a public denouement of every single angry, aggressive, incorrect thing said by some random person that rises to be meme worthy.
Bolded for emphasis because it's exactly right.
We don't need a university president to publicly denounce every angry, aggressive, incorrect thing said by some random person just because it happened on his campus. It would be ridiculous to hold a university president responsible for some asshole, who isn't even a student, that drove by and shouted out "nigger" at some black students. Likewise, it would be ridiculous to hold him responsible for some unknown person making a swastika out of poop (which is the correct medium for creating swastikas).
I'm glad that Plansix can see so clearly that holding leaders responsible for every crappy thing someone does anywhere even remotely under their leadership umbrella is a terrible way to go about getting things done. What I don't get is why this opinion only applies to one group and not the other.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Kids now-a-days on campus' live in fantasy lala land far outside reality. Colleges used to be places of learning, intellectual challenge, and broadening ones skills and knowledge. Now, it's just a place of censorship, paranoia, and quite frankly, a place for little kids to act like childish spoiled brats. The people represented in these videos are not anomalies - they're the new 'norm'. Quite frankly, these people will get a rude awakening once their adolescent sheltering is replaced by hard reality. I only hope they grow up before they vote en mass.
College institutions meant to be home LMAO. Who believes this non-sense...
Living on a college campus myself I can say that in my experience the majority of students don't care deeply about these things nor are they involved politically, however there are student organizations and a small but very vocal minority of people who exist to rabble-rouse. My college is relatively prestigious and has a heavy workload, so most people are either too tired or too apathetic to really get involved, but a few people with a lot of energy take offense at nearly anything because they came in with a chip on their shoulder. Mostly you can tell that they are well intentioned, but in this Mizzou case it seems like they were more out for blood and vengeance than they were for change.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
There is a time and a place to make a stand for free speech. But not in response to a email that only asks that students think about what they are putting on. Not even act on it, just think about if the costume might be offensive.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Kids now-a-days on campus' live in fantasy lala land far outside reality. Colleges used to be places of learning, intellectual challenge, and broadening ones skills and knowledge. Now, it's just a place of censorship, paranoia, and quite frankly, a place for little kids to act like childish spoiled brats. The people represented in these videos are not anomalies - they're the new 'norm'. Quite frankly, these people will get a rude awakening once their adolescent sheltering is replaced by hard reality. I only hope they grow up before they vote en mass.
College institutions meant to be home LMAO. Who believes this non-sense...
Living on a college campus myself I can say that in my experience the majority of students don't care deeply about these things nor are they involved politically, however there are student organizations and a small but very vocal minority of people who exist to rabble-rouse. My college is relatively prestigious and has a heavy workload, so most people are either too tired or too apathetic to really get involved, but a few people with a lot of energy take offense at nearly anything because they came in with a chip on their shoulder. Mostly you can tell that they are well intentioned, but in this Mizzou case it seems like they were more out for blood and vengeance than they were for change.
Just when I think people couldn't be more oblivious, I'm confronted with the reality that they can be plenty more oblivious.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
The professor explicitly said that students SHOULD consider what was appropriate and care about each other, but that they should do it because they build their own community, not because it was an implied rule from administrators. Her letter was more about questioning the university's role in the social climate of its students than championing free speech or devaluing minority students. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion after reading her message.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Kids now-a-days on campus' live in fantasy lala land far outside reality. Colleges used to be places of learning, intellectual challenge, and broadening ones skills and knowledge. Now, it's just a place of censorship, paranoia, and quite frankly, a place for little kids to act like childish spoiled brats. The people represented in these videos are not anomalies - they're the new 'norm'. Quite frankly, these people will get a rude awakening once their adolescent sheltering is replaced by hard reality. I only hope they grow up before they vote en mass.
College institutions meant to be home LMAO. Who believes this non-sense...
Living on a college campus myself I can say that in my experience the majority of students don't care deeply about these things nor are they involved politically, however there are student organizations and a small but very vocal minority of people who exist to rabble-rouse. My college is relatively prestigious and has a heavy workload, so most people are either too tired or too apathetic to really get involved, but a few people with a lot of energy take offense at nearly anything because they came in with a chip on their shoulder. Mostly you can tell that they are well intentioned, but in this Mizzou case it seems like they were more out for blood and vengeance than they were for change.
Just when I think people couldn't be more oblivious, I'm confronted with the reality that they can be plenty more oblivious.
ampson is merely doing everyone a favor as he shows off why relying on availability heuristics is a poor means of understanding the world and/or the plight of others. God forbid the social climate at another university be any different than his!
But don't worry, he goes to a prestigious university! All will be well for him so long as those pesky rabble rousing excuses for students don't bother him too many times as he walks to class.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
There is a time and a place to make a stand for free speech. But not in response to a email that only asks that students think about what they are putting on. Not even act on it, just think about if the costume might be offensive.
Perhaps you should read more Paine instead of the drivel that is shoveled through these circles. The sort of thinking that is perpetrated here, would render all of our rights moot - c'est la vie. How dare you defend that murderers right to a fair trial and the principle of innocent until proven guilty! Don't you care about the victims feelings? Emotion and subjective criteria such as feelings are a terrible way to structure any group or society around - such a system is truly Lord of the Flies. Reason is far superior - one which tends to get vehemently attacked now-a-days.
These people don't want intellectual rigour and open debate. They just shout down and hurl ad hominems and start to weep like little babies whenever they're exposed to an idea or someone that doesn't conform 100% to their personal beliefs. These people are then taken seriously.....Hell, even many of the progressives of the 60s and 70s that are on campus in faculty positions are getting outraged over this soft-censorship (not long before it's overt). I have to spend enough time defending the 1st against social conservatives, now I have to take the time to do the same against these petulant children. Blegh.
ampson earlier was arguing that 10% of the total student population participating meant that it was an unpopular movement. Now it appears that 99% of students are apathetic and 1% are rabble rousers. That would seem to suggest that this movement was, as I suggested, actually quite popular. Again I'll repeat my experience, which mirrors what ampson now claims, that most students are apathetic and 10% of them doing anything is a lot.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
There is a time and a place to make a stand for free speech. But not in response to a email that only asks that students think about what they are putting on. Not even act on it, just think about if the costume might be offensive.
That is an insane interpretation of those Professors' position. The position is simply "we don't want to be part of some sort of high inquisitorial counsel" and questioning whether the faculty should be coming out in favor of acceding to the preferences of the most sensitive minority on campus during a day of frivolity and line-pushing.
While I don't think the two situations should be conflated too much because the Missouri situation is more concerning (the actual concerns of the students being more real). I am going to say that the demands made by the group are quite odd, and several are blatantly unconstitutional.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
The professor explicitly said that students SHOULD consider what was appropriate and care about each other, but that they should do it because they build their own community, not because it was an implied rule from administrators. Her letter was more about questioning the university's role in the social climate of its students than championing free speech or devaluing minority students. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion after reading her message.
Well you have to be a minority who has faced racism their whole life and is completely fed up with it. And then your school asks students to be considerate of your feelings, some professor also comes out and points out that everyone has the right to wear racist costumes and that as important. And this will go on forever. Or until you get a job and then racist costumes are not acceptable because that shit won't fly for an HR department. Really they are only acceptable in college and private parties.
But the key problem here is that every time someone says "Consider minorities and their feelings," it is instantly bookended by someone saying that free speech matters and is a right. So they might as well have never said the first thing about being considerate.
Clutz: Poorly conceived demand from college students are a staple of American culture. But that isn't why that man resigned. And I think you are right that the professor may have mean that, but maybe she should have waited until the students came forward seeking the "high inquisitorial counsel", rather than assuming it was going to happen. Maybe just issue the message of "respect others" and see how it is going to plays out, rather than instantly devaluing the first email by saying "but remember minorities, you need to respect the right for people to wear racists costumes too," as if they needed to be told that.
I had stated it was anecdotal evidence. I'm not trying to generalize the social climate at my school to that of any other besides the fact that any I would compare it to would also be American sources of secondary education. Perhaps I could generally further with the Yale example that we're both private liberal arts schools. How is it that you guys are immediately trusting of these stories of confederate pick up trucks yelling the n word and people being denied from parties due to race (both of which were told by individuals with no evidence) and then lay into me for simply talking about the place where I live and work?
in a place with deep segregationist roots like missouri i can see why the students made those demands, and also how they'll not work and probably lead to more divisions.
This whole Yale costume debate would be way easier if the two sides would just come out and address what they are really getting at:
White kids in blackface.
We all know that is the costume people are worried about. Blackface has this terrible history behind it ... but kids really wanna dress up as Kanye ... even white ones. No easy solution but to beat around the bush and hope nobody does it.
I find the entire thing comical because people keep saying "wait till these liberal kids get out into the real world" where you need to think super hard about a how offensive your costume is and if you want to be that guy wearing the KKK costume or dressed like a Nazi. And if photos of that end up on your face book page and if co-workers see it.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
The professor explicitly said that students SHOULD consider what was appropriate and care about each other, but that they should do it because they build their own community, not because it was an implied rule from administrators. Her letter was more about questioning the university's role in the social climate of its students than championing free speech or devaluing minority students. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion after reading her message.
Well you have to be a minority who has faced racism their whole life and is completely fed up with it. And then your school asks students to be considerate of your feelings, some professor also comes out and points out that everyone has the right to wear racist costumes and that as important. And this will go on forever. Or until you get a job and then racist costumes are not acceptable because that shit won't fly for an HR department. Really they are only acceptable in college and private parties.
But the key problem here is that every time someone says "Consider minorities and their feelings," it is instantly bookended by someone saying that free speech matters and is a right. So they might as well have never said the first thing about being considerate.
Clutz: Poorly conceived demand from college students are a staple of American culture. But that isn't why that man resigned. And I think you are right that the professor may have mean that, but maybe she should have waited until the students came forward seeking the "high inquisitorial counsel", rather than assuming it was going to happen. Maybe just issue the message of "respect others" and see how it is going to plays out, rather than instantly devaluing the first email by saying "but remember minorities, you need to respect the right for people to wear racists costumes too," as if they needed to be told that.
Agree on the demand point. And the resignation point. However, no one defends racists (except in the 1st Amendment context of preventing them from being arrested for speech) and you keep dragging out that strawman. If you are at all familiar with the views that are prevalent in many of these circles, you know (and are being extremely dishonest by ignoring this) that they are nearly as likely to flip out at a white girl dressed as a belly dancer as they are the Neo-Nazi in blackface.
On November 10 2015 07:57 Plansix wrote: Once again, the censorship term is thrown out when students reminded to think about their fellow class mates before picking provocative costumes. And this time by a professor, who decided the hill he was going to die on was racially insensitive Halloween costumes.
That doesn't seem like a big deal. But to a black student, it says to the school won't take them seriously if they report racism. And this is likely reinforced by their previous experiences with reporting racism in their life.
Did you watch the video of the prof talking to the group of protesting students?
This is the husband of the woman who sent out the email defending the students right to wear potentially offensive halloween costumes.
Yeah, I don't really agree with him and the title of the video is fucking comical. Cyberbullies my ass. He is talking about free speech like something is being taken away. They have a right to wear the costumes and no one was removing that. The email in question said asked students not to wear them out of respect for their fellow students who are minorities. There is no requirement to do so, but the school is telling the minority students they are not required to like it either or remain quite about those costumes.
This is the shit we feel is important now, racially insensitive Halloween costumes? Like really? I will say the same thing I say every time someone complaints about people being upset about offensive jokes. If you tell an offensive joke and someone doesn't laugh, it was just offensive. To exist with minorities on campus, people might have to tone down how funny they think racist jokes are. Or maybe just use fucking common sense and wear racially insensitive Halloween costumes around minorities.
Wait, aren't the students asking for a "safe environment" where offensive costumers are immediately burned and their wearers shunned? I thought the original professor was the one calling for moderation of thought and a willingness to tolerate what are modestly offensive costumes (it being Halloween and all).
This article has a pretty good break down of it, including both emails for you to read. In my opinion there wasn't in the email from Yale beyond "Use your head, think about what your costume says to people of that culture. Don't be an asshole."
The problem with the "free speech above all" coming from a staff member in this context is it sends this message to minority students "We care more about racist Halloween costumes than you. We don't value you." Yale's email was a suggestion, not a rule. A thought process to being considerate to your fellow students who's feelings you might not consider. In response to that, the staff member said singled to the minority students that really its not other students jobs to give a shit about them.
The professor explicitly said that students SHOULD consider what was appropriate and care about each other, but that they should do it because they build their own community, not because it was an implied rule from administrators. Her letter was more about questioning the university's role in the social climate of its students than championing free speech or devaluing minority students. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion after reading her message.
Well you have to be a minority who has faced racism their whole life and is completely fed up with it. And then your school asks students to be considerate of your feelings, some professor also comes out and points out that everyone has the right to wear racist costumes and that as important. And this will go on forever. Or until you get a job and then racist costumes are not acceptable because that shit won't fly for an HR department. Really they are only acceptable in college and private parties.
But the key problem here is that every time someone says "Consider minorities and their feelings," it is instantly bookended by someone saying that free speech matters and is a right. So they might as well have never said the first thing about being considerate.
Clutz: Poorly conceived demand from college students are a staple of American culture. But that isn't why that man resigned. And I think you are right that the professor may have mean that, but maybe she should have waited until the students came forward seeking the "high inquisitorial counsel", rather than assuming it was going to happen. Maybe just issue the message of "respect others" and see how it is going to plays out, rather than instantly devaluing the first email by saying "but remember minorities, you need to respect the right for people to wear racists costumes too," as if they needed to be told that.
Agree on the demand point. And the resignation point. However, no one defends racists (except in the 1st Amendment context of preventing them from being arrested for speech) and you keep dragging out that strawman. If you are at all familiar with the views that are prevalent in many of these circles, you know (and are being extremely dishonest by ignoring this) that they are nearly as likely to flip out at a white girl dressed as a belly dancer as they are the Neo-Nazi in blackface.
Yes, but maybe wait until that happens and then address it. I totally agree that call out culture is the shittest part of progressive culture, but it needs to be addressed when it happens. And maybe not in a page long response about free speech and the right to wear costumes. Maybe just with a "And if you see a costume that offends you, this isn't license to harass that person."
EPT
