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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 10 2015 19:34 GMT
#45681
On September 11 2015 04:31 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2015 04:27 Plansix wrote:
On September 11 2015 04:21 Slaughter wrote:
More or less its just a way for them to try to reduce abortions by removing a facility that provides the service. Its a disgusting way to try to practically stop abortions while getting around the law.

And to ask questions like: “You would not assert that it’s inhumane to dismember an unborn baby?” Steve King Iowa Republican Rep. Tax dollars folks. This is our tax dollars at work. Asking totally disingenuous questions to doctors.

On September 11 2015 04:26 cLutZ wrote:
Why is defunding an organization that a huge percentage of the country finds morally objectionable a fantasy? Its like saying, "eliminating foreign aid for Syrian rebels is a fantasy!" PP should be exhilarated to show they are actually all about delivering womens health services and not rent seeking.


A lot of people morally object to the military. And Congress. I'm personally not fond of the IRS or DMV.

No where in the Constitution does is say you don't have to pay for shit you don't like. And its fantasy because it will never happen. Obama will veto it, so its just a political side show to waste time and tax dollars. All based off of a video that you know never hold up as evidence of anything.

Who is shutting down the government again?

The Republicans. We don't judge the actions of congress by the logic of a 6 year old. "He touched it last" isn't how this works. Stop with the disingenuous bullshit.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 10 2015 19:37 GMT
#45682
No, really. The question is equal from both sides. Is PP funding worth a government shut down. Both sides have to say "yes" for it to be so. You are just operating with an incumbency bias saying "this is how it is, thus this is how it should stay."
Freeeeeeedom
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
September 10 2015 19:49 GMT
#45683
63% oppose defunding Planned Parenthood
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-10 19:56:45
September 10 2015 19:53 GMT
#45684
The mental gymnastics you go through to blame the Democrats for everything is very impressive. Here we have the Republican’s, holding a hearing based on a widely discredited video attempting to defund PP again. A hearing where they ask doctors if it is unethical to dismember babies with a straight face. PP, a service that provides birth control, family planning and numerous services to the public that has been proven to reduce unwanted pregnancies nationwide. And they are doing this based on a video that has been heavily edited. All to score political points with their base by trying to do something that will likely be harmful to the country has a whole. And they do this to tell their delusional base that they will defund PP and repeal the ACA, both which are impossible unless they nuke the Democratic party from orbit.

But its Obama’s fault because he will veto a bill budget that defunds PP.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 10 2015 19:58 GMT
#45685
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18291 Posts
September 10 2015 20:07 GMT
#45686
On September 11 2015 04:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source

Free market capitalism working as intended, I'd say. Supply is the same, demand is up. Textbook economics 101.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-10 20:10:38
September 10 2015 20:10 GMT
#45687
On September 11 2015 04:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source


Unfortunately, Congresspeople, if you want to prevent drug companies charging more money for a drug with high demand you're going to have to actually change our society's ensconced belief that more money should buy you a longer, better life. Otherwise you're just waffling or using band aids that they'll inevitably get around.

While we're stuck with this system, though, we should be celebrating the price rising as it really does show it's getting more use, and here it probably actually is due to increased manufacturing costs of the larger quantities being required.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
September 10 2015 20:11 GMT
#45688
On September 11 2015 05:07 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2015 04:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source

Free market capitalism working as intended, I'd say. Supply is the same, demand is up. Textbook economics 101.


OMG did someone just try to explain monopolistic price fixing with a demand and supply curve arguement. Really is Econ 101 lol.

You know what else is Econ 101... economies of scale. That doesnt seem to be applying though.. Wonder whyyy..
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 10 2015 20:12 GMT
#45689
President Barack Obama has directed officials to prepare to accommodate at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year — a number around six times greater than the total taken in by the U.S. over the first four-and-a-half years of the Middle East conflict.

In what the White House described as a "significant scaling up" of Washington's response to a crisis, the administration said it would accept thousands more people fleeing the war and would provide for their basic needs.

To date, the U.S. has accepted around 1,500 Syrians displaced by years of fighting — a tiny percentage of the 11.6 million people who have been chased out the country or uprooted from their homes.

In announcing the increased numbers, White House press secretary Josh Earnest noted that the administration had provided around $4 billion to relief agencies helping Syrian refugees. But he added that Obama has decided that admitting more people would help boost the U.S. response.

The move comes amid an ongoing crisis in Europe, where hundreds of thousands of people fleeing bloodshed are looking to resettle. And the administration's announcement Thursday followed criticism that the U.S. had not been pulling its weight when it came to taking in Syrian refugees.

A White House petition published on Aug. 31 calling for Washington to resettle 65,000 Syrian refugees has so far garnered more than 62,000 signatures.

Even with the increase, the number of Syrians that the U.S. is willing to give sanctuary to represents a tiny proportion of those needing resettlement. More than four million Syrians have fled the country since the war started and at least seven million have been displaced internally.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-10 20:17:42
September 10 2015 20:13 GMT
#45690
On September 11 2015 05:07 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2015 04:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source

Free market capitalism working as intended, I'd say. Supply is the same, demand is up. Textbook economics 101.

A 100% increase in cost would make me look twice. I would expect an increased, but they should be ready to back up doubling the prices.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 10 2015 21:01 GMT
#45691
Shipping around baby parts, negotiating on pricing to companies, reminding workers to close the eyes on fetal heads to not freak anyone out in shipping... pretty disconcerting stuff. Change PP to haliburton and the investigative group to something like amnesty international and there would be widespread outrage and calls for imprisonment.

It however is a left wing staple, the abortion nexus of the Western Hemisphere, so it's above reproach. Don't talk about defunding, the men and women of planned parenthood are doing the Lords work. Let's ignore the movies and shut down the government instead of funneling the money away from a corrupt, unprincipled institution.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43988 Posts
September 10 2015 21:05 GMT
#45692
People who support planned parenthood don't do it out of love for abortions. They do it because they recognise that control over reproductive health is one of the most significant factors in the success and stability of both individuals and families. The stakes are high and the benefits are worth the costs.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-10 21:14:35
September 10 2015 21:13 GMT
#45693
But there is zero evidence of anything illegal and using fetal tissue goes back to developing the polio vaccine. No one bitches about the polio vaccine. This is how we cure diseases and have for a very long time. If this hearing was about corruption, I might care. But its about stopping abortions and forcing women to get them someplace unsafe or have unwanted children.

And yes, many fact about the medical practice are disconcerting. Its not a field for the faint of heart.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18291 Posts
September 10 2015 21:13 GMT
#45694
On September 11 2015 05:11 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2015 05:07 Acrofales wrote:
On September 11 2015 04:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Around the U.S., a worsening heroin epidemic has more and more cities turning to the anti-overdose drug naloxone to reduce deaths from abuse. Also known as Narcan, the medication blocks the effects of opioids and reverses the respiratory depression that occurs during an overdose.

Baltimore recently stepped up its naloxone training, focusing on drug users, and their families and friends. So far this year, city health workers have taught nearly 4,400 people how to use naloxone. That's more than quadruple the number trained in 2014.

A big concern for Baltimore and other cities is the price of naloxone, which has risen dramatically as demand has gone up. In February, the Baltimore City Health Department was paying about $20 a dose. By July, the price had climbed to nearly $40 a dose.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, places the blame squarely on the manufacturers and, in particular, Amphastar Pharmaceuticals, the company that makes the naloxone most widely used by health departments and police.

"When drug companies increase their prices and charge exorbitant rates, they decrease the access to the drug," Cummings said this summer. "There's something awfully wrong with that picture."

Amphastar says it raised prices because of increased manufacturing costs, including a rise in the prices of raw materials, energy and labor.


Source

Free market capitalism working as intended, I'd say. Supply is the same, demand is up. Textbook economics 101.


OMG did someone just try to explain monopolistic price fixing with a demand and supply curve arguement. Really is Econ 101 lol.

You know what else is Econ 101... economies of scale. That doesnt seem to be applying though.. Wonder whyyy..

Huh? The price fixing was happening in ANY case. It's due to the patent system. What's different is the increased demand due to the current heroin epidemic.

Complaining about price fixing in this case is pretty stupid, because this is not due to price fixing. It's due to demand being up, meaning they can now "fix" the price at a higher place and there will be people buying it.

Obviously I don't buy the increased price due to "increased manufacturing costs", unless the pharmaceutical company is also getting shafted and it is in fact supply of the raw materials that is limited (a slight possibility, if some kind of highly specialized chemical is involved).
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 10 2015 21:14 GMT
#45695
Trump to appear on the Late Show with Colbert on Sept. 22nd.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 10 2015 21:48 GMT
#45696
On September 11 2015 04:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
63% oppose defunding Planned Parenthood
...conducted by the Democratic firm Hart research (from the article). What a nice detached observer immune to the temptations of push polling.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
September 10 2015 21:49 GMT
#45697
On September 11 2015 06:01 Danglars wrote:
Shipping around baby parts, negotiating on pricing to companies, reminding workers to close the eyes on fetal heads to not freak anyone out in shipping... pretty disconcerting stuff. Change PP to haliburton and the investigative group to something like amnesty international and there would be widespread outrage and calls for imprisonment.

It however is a left wing staple, the abortion nexus of the Western Hemisphere, so it's above reproach. Don't talk about defunding, the men and women of planned parenthood are doing the Lords work. Let's ignore the movies and shut down the government instead of funneling the money away from a corrupt, unprincipled institution.


when you throw around bullshit like that, your arguments start to stink. none of that is even remotely true. what pp does is the equivalent of donating organs for transplants after death, or perhaps more comparably donating a cadaver for research.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 10 2015 21:51 GMT
#45698
Senate Democrats voted to uphold the hard-fought nuclear accord with Iran on Thursday, overcoming ferocious GOP opposition and delivering President Barack Obama a legacy-making victory on his top foreign policy priority.

A disapproval resolution for the agreement fell two votes short of the 60 needed to move forward as Democratic and independent senators banded together to vote against it. Although House Republicans continued to pursue eleventh-hour strategies to derail the international accord, the outcome in the Senate guaranteed that the disapproval legislation would not reach Obama's desk.

As a result the nuclear deal will move forward unchecked by Congress, an improbable win by Obama in the face of unanimous opposition from Republicans who control Capitol Hill, GOP candidates seeking to replace him in the Oval Office and the state of Israel and its allied lobbyists in the U.S.

Beginning next week, Obama will be free to start scaling back U.S. sanctions to implement the agreement negotiated by Iran, the United States and five other world powers. The accord aims to constrain Iran's nuclear ambitions in exchange for hundreds of billions of dollars in relief from international sanctions.

"We have one goal in mind, shared by many nations around the world: to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon," said Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Senate Democrat. "I believe this agreement comes as close to achieving that as we can hope for at this moment."

Frustrated Republicans railed against Democrats for using a procedural vote to block final passage of the disapproval resolution, and issued grim warnings about a deal they contend could serve only to enrich Tehran and leave it closer to building a bomb when constraints begin to ease in 10 or 15 years.

"To my Democratic friends: You own this. You own every 'i' and every 't' and every bullet, and you own everything that is to follow," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. "And it's going to be holy hell."

In the House, Republicans had not given up on blocking the deal against all odds. After backtracking on plans to vote on the disapproval resolution when it began to look short of support in the Senate, House Republicans lined up votes on several related measures.

Late Thursday they expected to pass a measure specifying that Obama had not properly submitted all documents related to the accord for Congress' review, and therefore a 60-day review clock had not really started.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 10 2015 22:15 GMT
#45699
On September 11 2015 06:05 KwarK wrote:
People who support planned parenthood don't do it out of love for abortions. They do it because they recognise that control over reproductive health is one of the most significant factors in the success and stability of both individuals and families. The stakes are high and the benefits are worth the costs.
The question is if the cost is legal ethics, violating the laws against selling aborted fetuses for profit. Is the cost also medical ethics, doing procedures with a look towards salvageable parts first (see video on techniques used for good specimens, based on what the biotech company wants) and not the health and comfort of the mother? Is there a step too far where you find another national provider or is your attachment to this particular organization trump your thoughts on reproductive health?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43988 Posts
September 10 2015 22:21 GMT
#45700
On September 11 2015 07:15 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2015 06:05 KwarK wrote:
People who support planned parenthood don't do it out of love for abortions. They do it because they recognise that control over reproductive health is one of the most significant factors in the success and stability of both individuals and families. The stakes are high and the benefits are worth the costs.
The question is if the cost is legal ethics, violating the laws against selling aborted fetuses for profit. Is the cost also medical ethics, doing procedures with a look towards salvageable parts first (see video on techniques used for good specimens, based on what the biotech company wants) and not the health and comfort of the mother? Is there a step too far where you find another national provider or is your attachment to this particular organization trump your thoughts on reproductive health?

So your objection is to specific elements of the heavily edited and slanted "expose" and not to abortion generally?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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