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On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
Well all of this from well after I was being trained to become a teacher. Glad to see nothing has improved. But yes, they should end accepting online masters degrees teachers. Of course, testing students into the ground only serves to deal with bad teachers. It does nothing to create better teachers. So it makes the profession worse and drives talented people away.
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
Well all of this from well after I was being trained to become a teacher. Glad to see nothing has improved. But yes, they should end accepting online masters degrees teachers. Of course, testing students into the ground only serves to deal with bad teachers. It does nothing to create better teachers. So it makes the profession worse and drives talented people away.
None of this should be construed as an attack on individual teachers. The problem is that the profession has developed in such a way that a majority of its members are essentially blue collar workers that took advantage of the glut of higher education loans and schools and more or less bought a white collar job with 4 years and $XXk in loans. Then they buy a pay raise with a masters degree.
Now, this trend reversed quite a bit post 2008 because a lot of people who do not fit the teacher stereotype couldn't find jobs in the private sector, or jobs that paid better than the public sector. What remains to be seen is if that is a permanent trend and whether those people will stay in teaching if(when) the economy demands their services elsewhere.
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
Well all of this from well after I was being trained to become a teacher. Glad to see nothing has improved. But yes, they should end accepting online masters degrees teachers. Of course, testing students into the ground only serves to deal with bad teachers. It does nothing to create better teachers. So it makes the profession worse and drives talented people away.
None of this should be construed as an attack on individual teachers. The problem is that the profession has developed in such a way that a majority of its members are essentially blue collar workers that took advantage of the glut of higher education loans and schools and more or less bought a white collar job with 4 years and $XXk in loans. Then they buy a pay raise with a masters degree.
Now, this trend reversed quite a bit post 2008 because a lot of people who do not fit the teacher stereotype couldn't find jobs in the private sector, or jobs that paid better than the public sector. What remains to be seen is if that is a permanent trend and whether those people will stay in teaching if(when) the economy demands their services elsewhere.
I’m not saying its an attack against teachers. I am saying its an attack against teaching, the process of educating students. It is regulating the process to deal with shitty teachers because no one can figure out a good way to fire them but testing the students into the ground to make sure they have “evidence to fire the teacher”. The problem with that is that it is creating systems to deal with the lowest common denominator and imposing them on everyone.
That profession was cumbersome and bogged down when I was in it and it sucks even more now. Common core and no child left behind. Other things to regulate schools into the ground to try and get better tests score. They think can regulate schools into having better teachers, but that doesn’t nothing to make better teachers available for hire. It makes the profession shittier and still not great pay. Rather than making accreditation to be a teacher harder and making the profession pay more for that accreditation, they focus on getting rid of shitty teachers.
They want to improve the product known as education, but don’t want to invest in better parts.
On September 09 2015 19:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The average (median) salary for a primary/ secondary teacher in any given state is usually around $50-60K, but keep in mind this is not starting salary... this includes the first-year teachers, and this includes those who have been teaching for 30 years.
No stat can be both the average and median salary, they're different statistics. If it were the median the outliers of first year teachers and 30 year veterans wouldn't matter, though, and the site just says average, so it's probably average.
Unless you mean medians and averages generally both break down to that range in other data. But if it's median the outliers won't matter nearly as much (if at all) so it's often more useful when gauging something like this.
False. If you're talking about mean vs. median vs. mode, they're all different kinds of averages (also called measures of central tendency), so I was clarifying which average it was by denoting that it was the median- which is far more important when analyzing salaries than the means (because it's resistant to outliers).
And on a sidenote, the median and mean *can* be the same value, especially revealed in normal distributions
But either way, the point was to reveal the median salaries lol.
In case you'd like to read up on the different kinds of statistical averages, here's a source you might find helpful:
On September 09 2015 10:21 Chewbacca. wrote: Psh. Average salary for a Seattle teacher is ~50k according to google, and they get way more time off than your average worker. Hard to side with them on this strike..
Psh. They should take their $40k starting salary and be happy. It's a dream to work with kids all day and they get summers off! It's like they work 6 hour days.
Just to be clear, you're joking right? Because I don't want to dislike you
I'm assuming you're sarcastically responding to Chewbacca's comment?
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
Well all of this from well after I was being trained to become a teacher. Glad to see nothing has improved. But yes, they should end accepting online masters degrees teachers. Of course, testing students into the ground only serves to deal with bad teachers. It does nothing to create better teachers. So it makes the profession worse and drives talented people away.
None of this should be construed as an attack on individual teachers. The problem is that the profession has developed in such a way that a majority of its members are essentially blue collar workers that took advantage of the glut of higher education loans and schools and more or less bought a white collar job with 4 years and $XXk in loans. Then they buy a pay raise with a masters degree.
Now, this trend reversed quite a bit post 2008 because a lot of people who do not fit the teacher stereotype couldn't find jobs in the private sector, or jobs that paid better than the public sector. What remains to be seen is if that is a permanent trend and whether those people will stay in teaching if(when) the economy demands their services elsewhere.
I’m not saying its an attack against teachers. I am saying its an attack against teaching, the process of educating students. It is regulating the process to deal with shitty teachers because no one can figure out a good way to fire them but testing the students into the ground to make sure they have “evidence to fire the teacher”. The problem with that is that it is creating systems to deal with the lowest common denominator and imposing them on everyone.
That profession was cumbersome and bogged down when I was in it and it sucks even more now. Common core and no child left behind. Other things to regulate schools into the ground to try and get better tests score. They think can regulate schools into having better teachers, but that doesn’t nothing to make better teachers available for hire. It makes the profession shittier and still not great pay. Rather than making accreditation to be a teacher harder and making the profession pay more for that accreditation, they focus on getting rid of shitty teachers.
They want to improve the product known as education, but don’t want to invest in better parts.
While I think the way common core is being implemented is a travesty, the basic ideas are good. And the reason, might I remind you, for coming up with common core in the first place, is because the US education was severly lagging behind the rest of the developed world in international tests (particularly PISA).
The education system was fucked long before standardized testing became a thing. That standardized testing doesn't help, and might even make matters worse, is of course not great either. But something needed to be done, and something still needs to be done.
On September 09 2015 22:29 Sermokala wrote: I never understood why teachers summers weren't filled with training and education for the teachers. Would justify paying them a fair years wage and help them with their jobs as some sort of offseason.
Teachers unions have not had a good string of luck with strikes recently.
I spent about a month this summer training and going to professional development meetings as a teacher.
Unfortunately, it depends largely on the school's budget- how much can they afford to send teachers away/ run additional meetings (both in summer and during the year).
I'm lucky because my private school has money (and because I like going to these sessions!).
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
Well all of this from well after I was being trained to become a teacher. Glad to see nothing has improved. But yes, they should end accepting online masters degrees teachers. Of course, testing students into the ground only serves to deal with bad teachers. It does nothing to create better teachers. So it makes the profession worse and drives talented people away.
None of this should be construed as an attack on individual teachers. The problem is that the profession has developed in such a way that a majority of its members are essentially blue collar workers that took advantage of the glut of higher education loans and schools and more or less bought a white collar job with 4 years and $XXk in loans. Then they buy a pay raise with a masters degree.
Now, this trend reversed quite a bit post 2008 because a lot of people who do not fit the teacher stereotype couldn't find jobs in the private sector, or jobs that paid better than the public sector. What remains to be seen is if that is a permanent trend and whether those people will stay in teaching if(when) the economy demands their services elsewhere.
I’m not saying its an attack against teachers. I am saying its an attack against teaching, the process of educating students. It is regulating the process to deal with shitty teachers because no one can figure out a good way to fire them but testing the students into the ground to make sure they have “evidence to fire the teacher”. The problem with that is that it is creating systems to deal with the lowest common denominator and imposing them on everyone.
That profession was cumbersome and bogged down when I was in it and it sucks even more now. Common core and no child left behind. Other things to regulate schools into the ground to try and get better tests score. They think can regulate schools into having better teachers, but that doesn’t nothing to make better teachers available for hire. It makes the profession shittier and still not great pay. Rather than making accreditation to be a teacher harder and making the profession pay more for that accreditation, they focus on getting rid of shitty teachers.
They want to improve the product known as education, but don’t want to invest in better parts.
While I think the way common core is being implemented is a travesty, the basic ideas are good. And the reason, might I remind you, for coming up with common core in the first place, is because the US education was severly lagging behind the rest of the developed world in international tests (particularly PISA).
The education system was fucked long before standardized testing became a thing. That standardized testing doesn't help, and might even make matters worse, is of course not great either. But something needed to be done, and something still needs to be done.
It’s because it is politically easier to impose tests on students than to revamp how we train teachers. Or to reformat schools. Its why charter schools are so popular in MA right now, because the teachers Union and the state can’t fix the problem, so charter schools dealt with it. Of course that is only a short term solution and can’t be applied state wide.
On September 09 2015 22:29 Sermokala wrote: I never understood why teachers summers weren't filled with training and education for the teachers. Would justify paying them a fair years wage and help them with their jobs as some sort of offseason.
Teachers unions have not had a good string of luck with strikes recently.
School should always just be year round. It doesn't make sense for kids to not be in school at all for 3 months. Breaks are good, but an entire season is just madness and makes no sense.
There is pretty strong evidence that should be the case and long vacations are much better for development. A lot of the development kid do in live has very little to do with lesson plans or even classes. Maybe lengthening school year for the last two years of high school might be effective.
Can you please post the evidence for the statement that long vacations are better for development? From what I've seen, countries with year-round schooling outperform countries with long summer breaks significantly (obviously, there are other cultural reasons to that as well). I feel it makes more sense- from an academic and teaching perspective- to not have a huge 3 month break, because students frequently forget a lot of the material, and then the first 1-2 months of school is spent reteaching prerequisite material. I think more frequent week-long or extended weekend breaks would be great throughout the entire year.
On September 09 2015 10:21 Chewbacca. wrote: Psh. Average salary for a Seattle teacher is ~50k according to google, and they get way more time off than your average worker. Hard to side with them on this strike..
Psh. They should take their $40k starting salary and be happy. It's a dream to work with kids all day and they get summers off! It's like they work 6 hour days.
You don't become a teacher if you do not like kids. And nobody is claiming teachers work 6 hours a day and have the entire summer off, but they work a hell of a lot less than your average starting engineer or whatever, many of which don't have very high starting salaries either.
They make a hell of a lot less, but don't work a hell of a lot less.
On September 09 2015 10:21 Chewbacca. wrote: Psh. Average salary for a Seattle teacher is ~50k according to google, and they get way more time off than your average worker. Hard to side with them on this strike..
Psh. They should take their $40k starting salary and be happy. It's a dream to work with kids all day and they get summers off! It's like they work 6 hour days.
You don't become a teacher if you do not like kids. And nobody is claiming teachers work 6 hours a day and have the entire summer off, but they work a hell of a lot less than your average starting engineer or whatever, many of which don't have very high starting salaries either.
Yeah no. I would say on average a full time teacher works considerably more then just 9-5 5d/w
Oh, significantly more. I won't have a single week this school year where I'm only working 40 hours. I have some breaks in the summer, but I continue teaching and doing schoolwork/ professional development even then.
As a frame of reference, between teaching and tutoring, I work a 70-hour work week (including on Saturdays and Sundays). Granted, it's all stuff I love to do so I won't complain about working that many hours, but it kills me when non-educators think educators have it easy time-wise.
On September 10 2015 02:27 ticklishmusic wrote: Trump Cruz 2016
On a more serious note, who do you think will be the first to drop out? And when? I'm guessing a little after the second debate we'll see some second tier candidates drop if they don't make an impact.
I think anyone who's still polling below 5% (maybe 10%?) is going to drop out within the next 1-2 months. We already know who the big players are for the parties.
On September 09 2015 22:29 Sermokala wrote: I never understood why teachers summers weren't filled with training and education for the teachers. Would justify paying them a fair years wage and help them with their jobs as some sort of offseason.
Teachers unions have not had a good string of luck with strikes recently.
School should always just be year round. It doesn't make sense for kids to not be in school at all for 3 months. Breaks are good, but an entire season is just madness and makes no sense.
There is pretty strong evidence that should be the case and long vacations are much better for development. A lot of the development kid do in live has very little to do with lesson plans or even classes. Maybe lengthening school year for the last two years of high school might be effective.
Can you please post the evidence for the statement that long vacations are better for development? From what I've seen, countries with year-round schooling outperform countries with long summer breaks significantly (obviously, there are other cultural reasons to that as well). I feel it makes more sense- from an academic and teaching perspective- to not have a huge 3 month break, because students frequently forget a lot of the material, and then the first 1-2 months of school is spent reteaching prerequisite material. I think more frequent week-long or extended weekend breaks would be great throughout the entire year.
I can't find the study and it wasn't advocating for the three month summer vacation. It was advocating to not have kids in schools during that time and having them learn in alternative environments. It also cited the problem that some sections of this country do not have schools that are capable of housing kids in the summer months. But it was along the lines of what you are talking about, a more well rounded school year and shorter days over all for kids.
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
I don't think that's because they have school in summers though; there are plenty of other top notch countries (education-wise) who are having school in summer and not killing themselves over it. Heck, I'd much rather keep my 180 school days but just spread them out over 12 months They just need the infrastructure (air conditioning!).
On September 09 2015 22:29 Sermokala wrote: I never understood why teachers summers weren't filled with training and education for the teachers. Would justify paying them a fair years wage and help them with their jobs as some sort of offseason.
Teachers unions have not had a good string of luck with strikes recently.
School should always just be year round. It doesn't make sense for kids to not be in school at all for 3 months. Breaks are good, but an entire season is just madness and makes no sense.
There is pretty strong evidence that should be the case and long vacations are much better for development. A lot of the development kid do in live has very little to do with lesson plans or even classes. Maybe lengthening school year for the last two years of high school might be effective.
Can you please post the evidence for the statement that long vacations are better for development? From what I've seen, countries with year-round schooling outperform countries with long summer breaks significantly (obviously, there are other cultural reasons to that as well). I feel it makes more sense- from an academic and teaching perspective- to not have a huge 3 month break, because students frequently forget a lot of the material, and then the first 1-2 months of school is spent reteaching prerequisite material. I think more frequent week-long or extended weekend breaks would be great throughout the entire year.
I can't find the study and it wasn't advocating for the three month summer vacation. It was advocating to not have kids in schools during that time and having them learn in alternative environments. It also cited the problem that some sections of this country do not have schools that are capable of housing kids in the summer months. But it was along the lines of what you are talking about, a more well rounded school year and shorter days over all for kids.
On September 10 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and that rate dips down deep into the teenage demographic. I do not thing emulating a school system with that systemic problem is a winning solution.
Also, teaching degrees are the same as any other degree. The leading states require a minor in education. If you want to teach math, you need to get a master in math by the school that state will accept. Maybe in some dumpster tier states they like online masters through, but that isn't' the case in the leading states.
I don't think that's because they have school in summers though; there are plenty of other top notch countries (education-wise) who are having school in summer and not killing themselves over it. Heck, I'd much rather keep my 180 school days but just spread them out over 12 months They just need the infrastructure (air conditioning!).
I was saying that Japan is not the country to cite on education. There are better examples out there that don't have its baggage.
suicide rate is a problematic statistic, especially across nations, because suicides are often not listed as such in cases of things like car crashes and idk what else
not to say the structure of japan's (andkorea's) college entrance exams isnt super questionable
Standardized testing/common core being used as an evaluation technique for teachers is only a thing because the school districts allow themselves to become dependent on federal dollars and/or that such federal dollars are such a thing. The Feds want to see results for the dollars, but run into the locally entrenched union structures so they implement basically arbitrary standards to receive the dollars in the hopes that the localities will solve the problems themselves because even the Feds are not so obtuse and arrogant to believe they could go into each school district and magically make the correct hiring/firing/training decisions.
So, free money was always going to come with the hassles, and I am in favor of such a scheme because it theoretically puts pressures to stop with the free money scheme.
EPT
