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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 19 2015 10:55 farvacola wrote:
Bush's victory was a surprise for one, and we're still in the afterglow of Netanyahu practically pulling out all the stops in his rhetoric game. He now either has to play the hand he's been claiming to hold or acquiesce to moderate concerns. I don't think he has any real political inertia.
Must have learned from the Obama campaign.
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On March 19 2015 10:52 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 09:46 Nyxisto wrote:
The Anti-Israel circlejerk is strong on the internet and apartheid comparisons are very ridiculous. Fact of the matter is that 20% of the Israeli population are Arab Muslims and 10% hold political positions, serve in a military etc.. It's probably a better representation than most minorities in other countries have. Sure there is a lot of shitty rhetoric going around but given the geopolitical situation in the region the ethnic situation in Israel doesn't justify the criticism. I agree that they are ridiculous but the direction has been getting worse. Secular Israel Leftism merely asked whether you support Israel nationalism -- although muddled by the claim that Israel is a Jewish state -- still allowed for Arab Muslim citizenship just like every other modern, western nation state. The increased proportion of far right, Israel is god's gift annex everything and expel the Sand monkeys to other sand monkey lands, in the recent populations is a dangerous thread. Natanyahu's naked appeal to reactionary Republicans like Danglars is a warning that Israel is trending towards something ugly.
Ooh reactionary! Pretty naked script you got there. Every conservative elected is a dangerous trend, it's reactionary, the devils of warmongering, once again a reminder of hate and vitriol taking the minds of citizens and turning them to vote for the losers. They were so close to an enlightened leader (you saw the quote), but once again, Evil wins because Good got nothing against the baser instincts.
I've gotta say, keep at it. Disparage the voting population and nakedly berate them for voting strong leaders into office. It will continually reveal to them they just can't belong in the PC aristocracy. They are looked down upon. Their motivations are questionable, their morals false. When the arrogance becomes deafening, they might not return to the fold.
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I as a german can vouch that electing strong reactionary racist leaders who want to abolish rights of minorities, and campaign on fear mongering and scapegoating, can and will never lead to any problems. All is fine, move along.
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Netanyahu is nothing like Angela Merkel.
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http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/family-releases-video-of-dallas-police-fatal-shooting-of-mental-patient.html/
I guess someone will tell us how the police officers legitemately feared for their lives, and followed procedure. To the question why the fuck what we see is anything close to tought and instructed procedure is brushed away with: people not obeying orders of cops deserve to get shot, because they are criminal scumbags.
Then someone will chime in that he charged them like a footballplayer with his superhuman strength, because that is the defining characteristic of black people....
And last but not least American police self correction methods work, as is displayed by the fact that the officers are on fully duty again.
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On March 19 2015 21:41 puerk wrote:http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/family-releases-video-of-dallas-police-fatal-shooting-of-mental-patient.html/I guess someone will tell us how the police officers legitemately feared for their lives, and followed procedure. To the question why the fuck what we see is anything close to tought and instructed procedure is brushed away with: people not obeying orders of cops deserve to get shot, because they are criminal scumbags. Then someone will chime in that he charged them like a footballplayer with his superhuman strength, because that is the defining characteristic of black people.... And last but not least American police self correction methods work, as is displayed by the fact that the officers are on fully duty again.
Amazing how mental wards, prisons, and hospitals deal with these people without shooting them, yet somehow, cops are like helpless children with guns.
It's pathetic that this goes on, even more pathetic that people defend it.
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On March 19 2015 21:41 puerk wrote:http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/family-releases-video-of-dallas-police-fatal-shooting-of-mental-patient.html/I guess someone will tell us how the police officers legitemately feared for their lives, and followed procedure. To the question why the fuck what we see is anything close to tought and instructed procedure is brushed away with: people not obeying orders of cops deserve to get shot, because they are criminal scumbags. Then someone will chime in that he charged them like a footballplayer with his superhuman strength, because that is the defining characteristic of black people.... And last but not least American police self correction methods work, as is displayed by the fact that the officers are on fully duty again.
Jesus Christ, wtf?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 19 2015 16:54 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 10:52 Sub40APM wrote:On March 19 2015 09:46 Nyxisto wrote:
The Anti-Israel circlejerk is strong on the internet and apartheid comparisons are very ridiculous. Fact of the matter is that 20% of the Israeli population are Arab Muslims and 10% hold political positions, serve in a military etc.. It's probably a better representation than most minorities in other countries have. Sure there is a lot of shitty rhetoric going around but given the geopolitical situation in the region the ethnic situation in Israel doesn't justify the criticism. I agree that they are ridiculous but the direction has been getting worse. Secular Israel Leftism merely asked whether you support Israel nationalism -- although muddled by the claim that Israel is a Jewish state -- still allowed for Arab Muslim citizenship just like every other modern, western nation state. The increased proportion of far right, Israel is god's gift annex everything and expel the Sand monkeys to other sand monkey lands, in the recent populations is a dangerous thread. Natanyahu's naked appeal to reactionary Republicans like Danglars is a warning that Israel is trending towards something ugly. Ooh reactionary! Pretty naked script you got there. Every conservative elected is a dangerous trend, it's reactionary, the devils of warmongering, once again a reminder of hate and vitriol taking the minds of citizens and turning them to vote for the losers. They were so close to an enlightened leader ( you saw the quote), but once again, Evil wins because Good got nothing against the baser instincts. I've gotta say, keep at it. Disparage the voting population and nakedly berate them for voting strong leaders into office. It will continually reveal to them they just can't belong in the PC aristocracy. They are looked down upon. Their motivations are questionable, their morals false. When the arrogance becomes deafening, they might not return to the fold.
i expected a spirited defense of reactionary values and reactionary pride from u. live up to the great danglars name
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(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.
Asked how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had shared the idea publicly.
The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics.
"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance. Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to prison.
Aside from campaign finance issues, the United States also grapples with one of the lowest voter turnout rates among developed countries.
Less than 37% of eligible voters actually voted in the 2014 midterm elections, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. That means about 144 million Americans -- more than the population of Russia -- skipped out.
But mandatory voting could bring its own set of problems. Haydon Manning, associate professor at Flinders University in Australia, said that country's rules can backfire.
"Turning the vote out might not be a problem, but wooing disengaged citizens now requires banal sloganeering and crass misleading negative advertising," Manning wrote. "To me, this can diminish the democratic experience for those who take the time to think through the issues."
Source
He's really not shying away from the controversial topics huh? Floating out mandatory voting is bound to get him some backlash, but I do think voter turnout in this country needs to be addressed. It doesn't really feel like a government by and for the people when only a third of the people decide to weigh in on electing officials.
EDIT: Also, while I'm sure there are many arguments against mandatory voting, I don't really buy the one provided by Australia in this case. I'm not sure there's anywhere to go but up when it comes to political advertising and our democratic experience.
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On March 19 2015 23:24 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.
Asked how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had shared the idea publicly.
The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics.
"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance. Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to prison.
Aside from campaign finance issues, the United States also grapples with one of the lowest voter turnout rates among developed countries.
Less than 37% of eligible voters actually voted in the 2014 midterm elections, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. That means about 144 million Americans -- more than the population of Russia -- skipped out.
But mandatory voting could bring its own set of problems. Haydon Manning, associate professor at Flinders University in Australia, said that country's rules can backfire.
"Turning the vote out might not be a problem, but wooing disengaged citizens now requires banal sloganeering and crass misleading negative advertising," Manning wrote. "To me, this can diminish the democratic experience for those who take the time to think through the issues." SourceHe's really not shying away from the controversial topics huh? Floating out mandatory voting is bound to get him some backlash, but I do think voter turnout in this country needs to be addressed. It doesn't really feel like a government by and for the people when only a third of the people decide to weigh in on electing officials. EDIT: Also, while I'm sure there are many arguments against mandatory voting, I don't really buy the one provided by Australia in this case. I'm not sure there's anywhere to go but up when it comes to political advertising and our democratic experience.
Why do we want to force a bunch of politically and socially disengaged and uninformed rubes to vote? We won't be doing anyone any favors.
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On March 19 2015 23:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 23:24 ZasZ. wrote:(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.
Asked how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had shared the idea publicly.
The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics.
"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance. Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to prison.
Aside from campaign finance issues, the United States also grapples with one of the lowest voter turnout rates among developed countries.
Less than 37% of eligible voters actually voted in the 2014 midterm elections, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. That means about 144 million Americans -- more than the population of Russia -- skipped out.
But mandatory voting could bring its own set of problems. Haydon Manning, associate professor at Flinders University in Australia, said that country's rules can backfire.
"Turning the vote out might not be a problem, but wooing disengaged citizens now requires banal sloganeering and crass misleading negative advertising," Manning wrote. "To me, this can diminish the democratic experience for those who take the time to think through the issues." SourceHe's really not shying away from the controversial topics huh? Floating out mandatory voting is bound to get him some backlash, but I do think voter turnout in this country needs to be addressed. It doesn't really feel like a government by and for the people when only a third of the people decide to weigh in on electing officials. EDIT: Also, while I'm sure there are many arguments against mandatory voting, I don't really buy the one provided by Australia in this case. I'm not sure there's anywhere to go but up when it comes to political advertising and our democratic experience. Why do we want to force a bunch of politically and socially disengaged and uninformed rubes to vote? We won't be doing anyone any favors.
While they are more socially engaged, would you seriously make the argument that the vast majority of the people who do vote are somehow more informed? As an example, the level of political discussion in this thread is far above what any of my friends and/or family are willing to discuss, and they are all fairly well educated professionals who vote in every election. It's one of the reasons I'm more of a lurker than a poster, I don't have very much to say because I don't feel as informed as I would like to be. I don't feel like the people who vote are, on the whole, any more informed than those who don't, just more engaged.
That said, using the word mandatory for it is a red flag and people will immediately shut people down. But I see no reason why we can't provide better incentives to get people to vote without making it only about incentives. The last thing we want is people showing up and putting down "C" for all the answers without reading the questions.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 19 2015 23:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 23:24 ZasZ. wrote:(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.
Asked how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had shared the idea publicly.
The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics.
"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance. Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to prison.
Aside from campaign finance issues, the United States also grapples with one of the lowest voter turnout rates among developed countries.
Less than 37% of eligible voters actually voted in the 2014 midterm elections, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. That means about 144 million Americans -- more than the population of Russia -- skipped out.
But mandatory voting could bring its own set of problems. Haydon Manning, associate professor at Flinders University in Australia, said that country's rules can backfire.
"Turning the vote out might not be a problem, but wooing disengaged citizens now requires banal sloganeering and crass misleading negative advertising," Manning wrote. "To me, this can diminish the democratic experience for those who take the time to think through the issues." SourceHe's really not shying away from the controversial topics huh? Floating out mandatory voting is bound to get him some backlash, but I do think voter turnout in this country needs to be addressed. It doesn't really feel like a government by and for the people when only a third of the people decide to weigh in on electing officials. EDIT: Also, while I'm sure there are many arguments against mandatory voting, I don't really buy the one provided by Australia in this case. I'm not sure there's anywhere to go but up when it comes to political advertising and our democratic experience. Why do we want to force a bunch of politically and socially disengaged and uninformed rubes to vote? We won't be doing anyone any favors.
it'll take some time but this mandatory voting thing would promote engagement and forestall cynicism-led inactivity.
the logistics would be difficult.
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I'd be ok with giving mandatory voting a try, if some of the defects in the voting system itself are fixed (i.e. providing at least some on-site info on the candidates, so if you get there and don't know the people, you have some basis for voting).
While they're less informed, they may also be less biased.
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Uhm... Isn't it unnessesary hard to vote in the US?
Why go for mandatory voting if you might as well first make it EASY and QUICK for people to vote...
Hint: If there are waiting times before your voting locals, your doing something wrong.
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On March 20 2015 00:12 Velr wrote:
Uhm... Isn't it unnessesary hard to vote in the US?
Why go for mandatory voting if you might as well first make it EASY and QUICK for people to vote...
Hint: If there are waiting times before your voting locals, your doing something wrong.
Good point, with driver's license renewals going online in Colorado recently, I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to eventually vote online. A big hurdle is having to go to a polling place and wait in line to vote. While mail-in ballots have helped address this, having your biggest convenience service be snail-mail is not exactly up with the times.
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Voting by mail and stuff is imho fine. Online voting will come but there are rightfull doubts about its security.
But things like having to register to vote (why?) and stuff like this seems just weird to me.
In Switzerland every person eglible to vote gets a letter with informations and a simple sheet to put his "YES/NO" or "Name/Party", then there are several weeks time to drop it into a mailbox. You can also go by before election day and drop it into a box, if that for some reason is your thing, which i personally never would have taken more than 15 mins to do (these include the acutal WALKING to the place).¨
When i read stuff like: "Busses full off supporters were dropped off at the voting station", I honestly just feel humoured by the sheer stupidty of these systems...
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On March 19 2015 23:51 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 23:34 xDaunt wrote:On March 19 2015 23:24 ZasZ. wrote:(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.
Asked how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had shared the idea publicly.
The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics.
"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance. Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to prison.
Aside from campaign finance issues, the United States also grapples with one of the lowest voter turnout rates among developed countries.
Less than 37% of eligible voters actually voted in the 2014 midterm elections, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. That means about 144 million Americans -- more than the population of Russia -- skipped out.
But mandatory voting could bring its own set of problems. Haydon Manning, associate professor at Flinders University in Australia, said that country's rules can backfire.
"Turning the vote out might not be a problem, but wooing disengaged citizens now requires banal sloganeering and crass misleading negative advertising," Manning wrote. "To me, this can diminish the democratic experience for those who take the time to think through the issues." SourceHe's really not shying away from the controversial topics huh? Floating out mandatory voting is bound to get him some backlash, but I do think voter turnout in this country needs to be addressed. It doesn't really feel like a government by and for the people when only a third of the people decide to weigh in on electing officials. EDIT: Also, while I'm sure there are many arguments against mandatory voting, I don't really buy the one provided by Australia in this case. I'm not sure there's anywhere to go but up when it comes to political advertising and our democratic experience. Why do we want to force a bunch of politically and socially disengaged and uninformed rubes to vote? We won't be doing anyone any favors. it'll take some time but this mandatory voting thing would promote engagement and forestall cynicism-led inactivity. the logistics would be difficult.
I fail to see the connection between mandatory voting and informed social engagement.
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On March 20 2015 00:12 Velr wrote:
Uhm... Isn't it unnessesary hard to vote in the US?
Why go for mandatory voting if you might as well first make it EASY and QUICK for people to vote...
Hint: If there are waiting times before your voting locals, your doing something wrong.
Voting is incredibly quick and easy to do in the US. Applying for my voter ID entailed all of me driving three miles to my local civic center, submitting my driver's license and signing a form, and then receiving the ID card in the mail one week later. Voting entails me driving less than a mile to my local community center/church to wait in a line of about ten people, cast my vote and leave within the span of ten minutes. All of this is perfectly reasonable to me. Online voting opens the door to gross misrepresentation.
I do think mandatory voting is an incredibly interesting topic of debate, and I was actually on my way to post the very same article. Certainly there are advantages, and particularly for the Dems, as a large portion of non-voters are minorities more closely aligned with liberal ideology. There are also inherent disadvantages, most notably unleashing a massive population of uneducated non-voters who would now be forced to inject their misguided views/opinions into a democracy that quite frankly does not value their opinion and has no need of it. There is a reason majority rules, as opposed to appeasing everyone, and that is because a lot of people, in every country, are idiots.
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On March 20 2015 00:23 Velr wrote:
Voting by mail and stuff is imho fine. Online voting will come but there are rightfull doubts about its security.
But things like having to register to vote (why?) and stuff like this seems just weird to me.
In Switzerland every person eglible to vote gets a letter with informations and a simple sheet to put his "YES/NO" or "Name/Party", then there are several weeks time to drop it into a mailbox. You can also go by before election day and drop it into a box, if that for some reason is your thing, which i personally never would have taken more than 15 mins to do (these include the acutal WALKING to the place).¨
When i read stuff like: "Busses full off supporters were dropped off at the voting station", I honestly just feel humoured by the sheer stupidty of these systems...
Right, but the US needs to be extra careful with its voting, simply because its a hugely important country with regularly razor-thin margins and fuckload at stake each time. Doing it in person isn't a guarantee of security, but it helps a bit to have observers there etc. Of course, there's also the problem that doing it the Swiss way would be impossible due to our lack of national registration.
But yes, unsurprisingly, the Swiss are more efficient than we.
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EPT
