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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1396

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 04 2014 19:50 GMT
#27901
Voters from two Northern California cities were deciding Tuesday whether to impose a tax on sugary drinks, but beverage industry groups have spent upwards of $11 million to oppose the ballot measures. Thus far, no U.S. city has managed to approve legislation taxing sweetened beverages, meaning "yes" votes in San Francisco or Berkeley would be a national first.

San Francisco’s Proposition E would impose a 2-cent per ounce tax on beverages with added sugar such as sodas and sports drinks, and Berkeley’s Measure D would impose a 1-cent per ounce tax on sugary drinks.

Both measures would exempt diet sodas, milk, non-dairy creamers, alcoholic beverages, infant formula and naturally sweetened drinks such as fruit juices.

Economist Ted Egan has told San Francisco’s Board of Supervisors that the city’s residents currently drink 3 billion ounces of sugary beverages annually, and that the tax would increase the price of each drink by 23 to 26 cents, resulting in a predicted 31 percent reduction in soda consumption.

But the American Beverage Association has been spending mightily to make sure the propositions don’t pass. The industry organization has invested $9 million on campaigns to oppose San Francisco’s measure, about $19 per eligible voter, and at least $2.1 million — or $27 per eligible voter — in opposition to Berkeley’s measure.

In San Francisco, the $35 to $53 million that Egan estimates the taxes would raise would be directed to nutrition and physical education programs through the city’s school district and the parks and recreation departments, according to the ballot measure.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-04 19:52:10
November 04 2014 19:50 GMT
#27902
This is funny. Mitch McConnell voting this morning.

[image loading]

Clearer. Funnier.

[image loading]
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 04 2014 19:53 GMT
#27903
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23292 Posts
November 04 2014 20:02 GMT
#27904
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


They've come pretty damn close...

IMMIGRATION EXPERT: OBAMA ADMIN RESPONSIBLE FOR LETTING EBOLA PATIENT INTO U.S
.
Source

"This is ideology as a sport ... as the leftists blame [Texas Gov.] Rick Perry and the sequester, the right also blames Obama for spreading Ebola," Gutfeld observed. "We had somebody on this very network who said that


Source

Ablow, a member of Fox News' "Medical A-Team," appeared on the October 14 edition of Fox News Radio's The John Gibson Show. He had previously written a column alleging that President Obama is not forcefully confronting Ebola and helping calm fears about the disease because he "may literally believe we should suffer along with less fortunate nations."

With him, you know, attending a church where the pastor said 'God Damn America' and the rest of it. It all fits, doesn't it? ... How can you protect a country you don't like? Why would you?"

When asked why Obama wouldn't impose a travel ban on flights from Africa, Ablow responded that Obama's "affinities, his affiliations are with them. Not us. That's what people seem unwilling to accept. He's their leader ... we don't have a president." He added: "We don't have a president who has the American people as his primary interest."

Why would you attack us? We're not even voting for somebody who likes us. This guy, who has names very similar to two of our archenemies, Osama, well, Obama. And Hussein. Hussein. Surely you won't attack us now because we've got a shield here of a guy who, as the leader of our country says we're bad. So leave us alone. We get the message."

ABLOW (AS OBAMA'S "PSYCHE"): "You miserable people have destroyed so much in the world in terms of good things, and now you're going to build a wall? Really? To insulate yourself from things that are devastating other nations when your gains are ill-gotten? And the very fact that you can build a wall -- you're using wealth that you never should have had to build it. This is just another manifestation of you didn't build that, business. Right? You didn't build the right to make yourself immune from something that is devastating a country with lesser resources."


Source

Yeah I mean obviously he should go with what random talking heads think and not what the overwhelming majority of outbreak specialists recommend (insanely stupid travel ban), Otherwise he is clearly the President of Africa intentionally making America suffer because he doesn't like America.... Freaking lunatics.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 04 2014 20:08 GMT
#27905
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 04 2014 20:14 GMT
#27906
On November 05 2014 05:08 oneofthem wrote:
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.

It's not like we're talking about isolated incidents of potential incompetent when it comes to Obama and his administration. Here's a laundry for the just the past two years from WashPo:

Obama’s list of second-term leadership crises is a formidable one: the botched rollout of HealthCare.gov; long waits at Veterans Affairs hospitals; Edward Snowden’s disclosures of the National Security Agency’s secrets; a pileup of foreign children along the southern border; Islamist terrorists marauding across Syria and Iraq and beheading foreigners, including Americans; and the arrival of the Ebola virus in the United States.


The bottom line is that there hasn't been much, if anything, that Obama has effectively managed. At some point, pointing the finger at others won't work any more, and we're probably at that point. Obama is the common denominator for many problems, which is a fact that isn't lost on people anymore.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8564 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-04 20:18:31
November 04 2014 20:14 GMT
#27907
On November 05 2014 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.


If there was something even remotely resembling an outbreak or AT LEAST some actual cases you might have a point.

It's basically distorted perception, (stupid?) people falling for an attention whore media.

//edit: But you definitely have a point with Obama being a terrible manager, and the lack of people in his camp making up for that malus.

Also that McConnell pic lol.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 04 2014 20:18 GMT
#27908
On November 05 2014 05:14 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.


If there was something even remotely resembling an outbreak or AT LEAST some actual cases you might have a point.

It's basically distorted perception, (stupid?) people falling for an attention whore media.

//edit: But you definitely have a point with Obama being a terrible manager, and the lack of people in his camp making up for that.

There doesn't have to be an actual outbreak to see where the federal government has been faltering with its response to ebola. Simply looking at the inconsistencies and related problems in the local responses shows plenty regarding the lack of effective federal oversight of what is clearly a federal problem.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8564 Posts
November 04 2014 20:21 GMT
#27909
On November 05 2014 05:18 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:14 Doublemint wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.


If there was something even remotely resembling an outbreak or AT LEAST some actual cases you might have a point.

It's basically distorted perception, (stupid?) people falling for an attention whore media.

//edit: But you definitely have a point with Obama being a terrible manager, and the lack of people in his camp making up for that.

There doesn't have to be an actual outbreak to see where the federal government has been faltering with its response to ebola. Simply looking at the inconsistencies and related problems in the local responses shows plenty regarding the lack of effective federal oversight of what is clearly a federal problem.


Well, we all know what a state like Texas thinks of federal guidelines, don't we?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23292 Posts
November 04 2014 20:34 GMT
#27910
Anyway... I am about to go vote and on the ballot in WA are I-594 and I-591

I-594: Source

I-591: Source

After reading the text of the laws I am inclined to go yes on 591 and no on 594 even though I support increased background checks.

My problems come from the speculation on how 594 would make going shooting (not at a range) and letting friends shoot your gun would become a crime (among other issues that look like a case of a poorly written law). It looks like section 3 is where people are pulling this from but having read it a bit myself I'm starting to wonder what exactly 594 does and doesn't do.

Anyone care to try to sway me to vote one way or another or just have a decent independent source which looks at 594 (591 is pretty straight forward)?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 04 2014 20:53 GMT
#27911
On November 05 2014 05:14 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:08 oneofthem wrote:
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.

It's not like we're talking about isolated incidents of potential incompetent when it comes to Obama and his administration. Here's a laundry for the just the past two years from WashPo:

Show nested quote +
Obama’s list of second-term leadership crises is a formidable one: the botched rollout of HealthCare.gov; long waits at Veterans Affairs hospitals; Edward Snowden’s disclosures of the National Security Agency’s secrets; a pileup of foreign children along the southern border; Islamist terrorists marauding across Syria and Iraq and beheading foreigners, including Americans; and the arrival of the Ebola virus in the United States.


The bottom line is that there hasn't been much, if anything, that Obama has effectively managed. At some point, pointing the finger at others won't work any more, and we're probably at that point. Obama is the common denominator for many problems, which is a fact that isn't lost on people anymore.

i count mebbe three events that you could argue about being obama's fault. rest are just incidents.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 04 2014 20:56 GMT
#27912
On November 05 2014 05:53 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:14 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:08 oneofthem wrote:
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.

It's not like we're talking about isolated incidents of potential incompetent when it comes to Obama and his administration. Here's a laundry for the just the past two years from WashPo:

Obama’s list of second-term leadership crises is a formidable one: the botched rollout of HealthCare.gov; long waits at Veterans Affairs hospitals; Edward Snowden’s disclosures of the National Security Agency’s secrets; a pileup of foreign children along the southern border; Islamist terrorists marauding across Syria and Iraq and beheading foreigners, including Americans; and the arrival of the Ebola virus in the United States.


The bottom line is that there hasn't been much, if anything, that Obama has effectively managed. At some point, pointing the finger at others won't work any more, and we're probably at that point. Obama is the common denominator for many problems, which is a fact that isn't lost on people anymore.

i count mebbe three events that you could argue about being obama's fault. rest are just incidents.

Sure, you could argue that some of those items are "incidents" that were not directly caused by anything that Obama did. It is much hard to argue, however, that Obama has managed those "incidents" well.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-04 21:00:07
November 04 2014 20:58 GMT
#27913
On November 05 2014 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.


No one getting sick besides people directly involved is not the point? What is Obama supposed to do? Fight Ebola with his bare hands while wearing an Uncle Sam costume? What are you judging the risk management by if not the outcome?
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 04 2014 20:59 GMT
#27914
On November 05 2014 05:18 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:14 Doublemint wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:40 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:13 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 05 2014 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote:
Just got back from voting. It still boggles my mind how unpopular obama is in this election, you would think he was quarantined cuz of ebola or something. The state of the US is pretty fucking good, all things considered, and yet voters still abhor the idea of Obama. Funny, when gas prices were insanely high, better blame obama. Gas is at like record low for like the past 7 years, no mention of Obama.

There's no shortage of reasons why Obama is unpopular and perceived as being incompetent. And even considering crediting Obama for today's low gas prices is patently ridiculous.

I'm not saying he is behind the low gas prices, but dems sure as hell could market it, just like the repub marketeI obama for isis, ebola, high gas prices(in previous elections), and whole host of other silly issues.

The problem with claiming credit for low gas prices is that republicans would simply start running ads showing all of the ways that democratic politicians have hampered the oil and gas industry. It would be too easy.

Just like they've shown all the ways Obama is responsible for ebola? Even if they run those ads about how they aren't responsible for low gas prices, it would still contradict the fact that gas prices are low. It'd still be an advantageous talking point for the Dem's.
Dem's are just giant fucking pussies when it comes to marketing successes.

No one is claiming that Obama is responsible for ebola. There are people who are claiming that the federal government's response to ebola -- which Obama ultimately is in charge of -- has been idiotic.


Why? Has any person gotten sick who was not coming from West-Africa or was involved in treating the people?

No, but that's not the point. The issue is the effective management of risk.


If there was something even remotely resembling an outbreak or AT LEAST some actual cases you might have a point.

It's basically distorted perception, (stupid?) people falling for an attention whore media.

//edit: But you definitely have a point with Obama being a terrible manager, and the lack of people in his camp making up for that.

There doesn't have to be an actual outbreak to see where the federal government has been faltering with its response to ebola. Simply looking at the inconsistencies and related problems in the local responses shows plenty regarding the lack of effective federal oversight of what is clearly a federal problem.


I haven't been following the Fox hyperbolic zone reporting on ebola so you will have to elaborate on the "inconsistencies and related problems." Please tie that in to a President's responsibilities and obligations while you are at it, because if you are going to list some un-followed procedures at a hospital in a backwater I don't really see why that should be a political thing.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 04 2014 21:07 GMT
#27915
On November 05 2014 05:56 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:53 oneofthem wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:14 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:08 oneofthem wrote:
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.

It's not like we're talking about isolated incidents of potential incompetent when it comes to Obama and his administration. Here's a laundry for the just the past two years from WashPo:

Obama’s list of second-term leadership crises is a formidable one: the botched rollout of HealthCare.gov; long waits at Veterans Affairs hospitals; Edward Snowden’s disclosures of the National Security Agency’s secrets; a pileup of foreign children along the southern border; Islamist terrorists marauding across Syria and Iraq and beheading foreigners, including Americans; and the arrival of the Ebola virus in the United States.


The bottom line is that there hasn't been much, if anything, that Obama has effectively managed. At some point, pointing the finger at others won't work any more, and we're probably at that point. Obama is the common denominator for many problems, which is a fact that isn't lost on people anymore.

i count mebbe three events that you could argue about being obama's fault. rest are just incidents.

Sure, you could argue that some of those items are "incidents" that were not directly caused by anything that Obama did. It is much hard to argue, however, that Obama has managed those "incidents" well.
the handling gets blamed because of the publicity of the incidents, not particularly because of wrong handling. there are some exceptions such as the SA children episode
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 04 2014 21:11 GMT
#27916
On November 05 2014 06:07 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 05:56 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:53 oneofthem wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:14 xDaunt wrote:
On November 05 2014 05:08 oneofthem wrote:
it honestly takes a lot of specialist knowledge to get a proper perspective on the politics of today, no simple solutions. most people just go with their first impressions. of course, incumbent always gets blamed for economy.

It's not like we're talking about isolated incidents of potential incompetent when it comes to Obama and his administration. Here's a laundry for the just the past two years from WashPo:

Obama’s list of second-term leadership crises is a formidable one: the botched rollout of HealthCare.gov; long waits at Veterans Affairs hospitals; Edward Snowden’s disclosures of the National Security Agency’s secrets; a pileup of foreign children along the southern border; Islamist terrorists marauding across Syria and Iraq and beheading foreigners, including Americans; and the arrival of the Ebola virus in the United States.


The bottom line is that there hasn't been much, if anything, that Obama has effectively managed. At some point, pointing the finger at others won't work any more, and we're probably at that point. Obama is the common denominator for many problems, which is a fact that isn't lost on people anymore.

i count mebbe three events that you could argue about being obama's fault. rest are just incidents.

Sure, you could argue that some of those items are "incidents" that were not directly caused by anything that Obama did. It is much hard to argue, however, that Obama has managed those "incidents" well.
the handling gets blamed because of the publicity of the incidents, not particularly because of wrong handling. there are some exceptions such as the SA children episode

That's a fair point as it applies to ebola. ISIS and the SA children matters are different animals. Obama has taken a lot of heat for those matters for good reason.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 04 2014 21:24 GMT
#27917
well i'm not sure if obama's prior or post ISIS policies were right, and the important part was mostly prior with the syria business, but if anything that list of incidents just highlights the eventful couple of years this administration went through.

it's like gettingi thrown into a washing machine while they are trying to paint a watercolor. there's also the whole government shutdown business that evidently didn't cost republicans much.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 04 2014 21:27 GMT
#27918
On November 05 2014 06:24 oneofthem wrote:
well i'm not sure if obama's prior or post ISIS policies were right, and the important part was mostly prior with the syria business, but if anything that list of incidents just highlights the eventful couple of years this administration went through.

it's like gettingi thrown into a washing machine while they are trying to paint a watercolor. there's also the whole government shutdown business that evidently didn't cost republicans much.

most of the criticisms of obama's policies were pre ISIS, in regards to handling syria. But, I've always thought that was sort of silly, because the proposed policies that obama "should" have enacted would have looked fucking absurd to the general public at that time, because the threat wasn't well known.
liftlift > tsm
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-04 21:49:47
November 04 2014 21:48 GMT
#27919
On November 05 2014 06:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 06:24 oneofthem wrote:
well i'm not sure if obama's prior or post ISIS policies were right, and the important part was mostly prior with the syria business, but if anything that list of incidents just highlights the eventful couple of years this administration went through.

it's like gettingi thrown into a washing machine while they are trying to paint a watercolor. there's also the whole government shutdown business that evidently didn't cost republicans much.

most of the criticisms of obama's policies were pre ISIS, in regards to handling syria. But, I've always thought that was sort of silly, because the proposed policies that obama "should" have enacted would have looked fucking absurd to the general public at that time, because the threat wasn't well known.

I'm willing to give Obama a bit of a pass on his pre-ISIS handling of Syria. However, his overall bungling of Middle East policy, most of which predates ISIS, has been astonishing. And this isn't really a partisan argument, either. He's just been objectively bad at foreign relations, which is why he has attracted so much flak from foreign countries and even publications that are inclined to be friendly towards him (notably, Foreign Policy).

EDIT: Let me just clarify the first sentence regarding the pass for Obama's handling of pre-ISIS Syria. What I mean to say is that I don't blame him for the rise of ISIS is in Syria. I do blame him for other stupid shit that he did though, like drawing red lines that he had no intention of enforcing.
sc2isnotdying
Profile Joined June 2014
United States200 Posts
November 04 2014 21:50 GMT
#27920
Election day here in the States, and the big storyline on a federal level is can the GOP take the Senate from the Dems? Given Obama's popularity, it certainly seems likely the GOP will make big gains but the stakes here are low. Congress is dysfunctional no matter who controls the Senate, and contrary to political advertising, a vote for a Republican congressman is not in fact a vote against Obama. It is rather sadly a vote for a Republican Congressman, a group which when taken as an aggregate is actually less popular than Obama himself. And why would Republicans have any type of popular support? As a party, they are clearly in the pocket of corporate interests and employ a rhetoric looking to take advantage of the religious and the racist. The conservative grassroots might think that a vote for a Tea Party Republican is the answer to the GOP establishment, that is until you investigate the sad truth that the Tea Party, even with its populist rhetoric, is just a shallow front for those aforementioned corporate interests.

On the State level, you might be thinking to yourself, "The GOP(or Dems) run my state like a shithole, but I can't support abortion (or gun) rights, so I guess it's the status quo for me!" So kids, here's my plea: Don't be a single issue voter. Vote against incumbents in your state's legislative bodies if you're unsatisfied. Don't let the powers that be shove "safe" districts down your throat, and give 3rd party candidates a shot.

Happy Election Day! (A Tuesday in November. Democracy!)
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