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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1342

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
October 12 2014 20:52 GMT
#26821
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-12 20:55:34
October 12 2014 20:53 GMT
#26822
Ebola going airborne is a hysteric fantasy:

"No evidence that viral diseases change their mode of transmission

Moreover, scientists are unaware of any virus that has dramatically changed its mode of transmission. For example, the H5N1 avian influenza virus, which has caused sporadic human cases since 1997, is now endemic in chickens and ducks in large parts of Asia.

That virus has probably circulated through many billions of birds for at least two decades. Its mode of transmission remains basically unchanged.

Speculation that Ebola virus disease might mutate into a form that could easily spread among humans through the air is just that: speculation, unsubstantiated by any evidence.

This kind of speculation is unfounded but understandable as health officials race to catch up with this fast-moving and rapidly evolving outbreak."


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

So some kind of super-deadly monster ebola is very unlikely. Actually viruses spreading through big populations get more harmless over time, because killing their host fast is not advantageous for the virus.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
October 12 2014 20:57 GMT
#26823
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.
Who called in the fleet?
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 12 2014 21:21 GMT
#26824
On October 13 2014 01:43 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 01:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
I just really can't take this Ebola 'scare' seriously. Phillip Morris and companies like them are going to talk more people into killing themselves here and in Africa, than Ebola is ever going to kill.

The Ebola hype coverage has been shameful in most part imho.

I'd be more worried about someone weaponizing this strain of Ebola than it naturally killing people. I agree if left to its own devices its not a globally-important issue.

it is globally important even in current form.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
October 12 2014 21:51 GMT
#26825
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
October 12 2014 22:02 GMT
#26826
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.
Who called in the fleet?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
October 12 2014 22:21 GMT
#26827
On October 13 2014 07:02 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.


Come in contact with yeah... But we don't exchange bodily fluids... If it was actually a threat to me in any way (like I worked in that hospital) I would just go all Howie Mandel until it blew over. There is really no reason for all the hype.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
October 12 2014 23:48 GMT
#26828
On October 13 2014 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 07:02 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 12 2014 21:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Breaking: Dallas Hospital worker who cared for Ebola victim has tested positive for Ebola.

Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.


Come in contact with yeah... But we don't exchange bodily fluids... If it was actually a threat to me in any way (like I worked in that hospital) I would just go all Howie Mandel until it blew over. There is really no reason for all the hype.

You DO exchange bodily fluids. Every item you touch leaves oils from your skin. Saliva and mucus can be aerosolized just from speech. If Ebola becomes more able to survive outside a host, it could easily be a problem in the US. In its current form, its absolutely no threat. But there's no reason to assume it will stay in its current form forever.
Who called in the fleet?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
October 13 2014 00:12 GMT
#26829
In its current form, its absolutely no threat.

That's the part that matters.

Until there is something that changes that, the media is just wasting time talking about it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 13 2014 00:15 GMT
#26830
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
October 13 2014 00:26 GMT
#26831
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source



With state after state having similar results it seems like it's going to be pretty tough for Republican presidential candidates to have a position that can win a primary and a general regarding this issue.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 13 2014 00:53 GMT
#26832
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
I just dig the rationales offered. We have to conclude that the legislature's actions were irrational. We are sending a message attacking the dignity of this group. To quote Scalia in Windsor, "the majority has declared open season on any law that (in the opinion of the law’s opponents and any panel of like-minded federal judges) can be characterized as mean-spirited," in total opposition to O'Brien's "It is a familiar principle of constitutional law that this Court will not strike down an otherwise constitutional statute on the basis of an alleged illicit legislative motive." Anyways, the fight was won with the DOMA case and its hand-crafted key phrase; this is all just the denouement. What's next on the left's big laundry list of perceived societal wrongs that will bypass legislative action in favor of the court's drive-through?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 13 2014 00:55 GMT
#26833
The Obama administration is preparing to unveil an air pollution rule shortly after the midterm elections that could be among the most costly and controversial in history.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is seeking approval from the White House for a proposal to update the nation’s outdated ozone standards. The agency punted on the air pollution rules three years ago and missed another deadline last year.

Environmental and public health advocates say stronger ozone standards can’t come soon enough. But business groups complain that tougher rules would be “unrealistic”.

"You have to balance what you’re trying to achieve environmentally with what you’re trying to achieve in the economy,” said Ross Eisenberg, vice president of energy and resources policy at the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM).

The new proposed rules will be the climax of the EPA’s review of the current standard for ground-level ozone, which it is obligated to study every five years.

Ozone, a byproduct of pollutants that come from burning fossil fuels, is known to cause respiratory illnesses and to harm some plants. Officials have not said whether they will seek to lower the threshold for the pollutant, but observers think it will be reduced to some degree.

The Clean Air Act compels the EPA to set the standard based solely on public health and welfare considerations, and it cannot consider the costs to implement the rules.

But the ozone standard is mired in politics.

Environmental groups are hoping to avoid a repeat of the very public clash they had with the Obama administration ahead of the 2012 presidential election.

Critics say the White House twisted then-EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson’s arm into postponing any change to the controversial rules.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 13 2014 02:27 GMT
#26834
BETHESDA, Md. -- As the federal government frantically works to combat the Ebola outbreak in West Africa, and as it responds to a second diagnosis of the disease at home, one of the country's top health officials says a vaccine likely would have already been discovered were it not for budget cuts.

Dr. Francis Collins, the head of the National Institutes of Health, said that a decade of stagnant spending has "slowed down" research on all items, including vaccinations for infectious diseases. As a result, he said, the international community has been left playing catch-up on a potentially avoidable humanitarian catastrophe.

"NIH has been working on Ebola vaccines since 2001. It's not like we suddenly woke up and thought, 'Oh my gosh, we should have something ready here,'" Collins told The Huffington Post on Friday. "Frankly, if we had not gone through our 10-year slide in research support, we probably would have had a vaccine in time for this that would've gone through clinical trials and would have been ready."

It's not just the production of a vaccine that has been hampered by money shortfalls. Collins also said that some therapeutics to fight Ebola "were on a slower track than would've been ideal, or that would have happened if we had been on a stable research support trajectory."

"We would have been a year or two ahead of where we are, which would have made all the difference," he said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
October 13 2014 02:33 GMT
#26835
On October 13 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
I just dig the rationales offered. We have to conclude that the legislature's actions were irrational. We are sending a message attacking the dignity of this group. To quote Scalia in Windsor, "the majority has declared open season on any law that (in the opinion of the law’s opponents and any panel of like-minded federal judges) can be characterized as mean-spirited," in total opposition to O'Brien's "It is a familiar principle of constitutional law that this Court will not strike down an otherwise constitutional statute on the basis of an alleged illicit legislative motive." Anyways, the fight was won with the DOMA case and its hand-crafted key phrase; this is all just the denouement. What's next on the left's big laundry list of perceived societal wrongs that will bypass legislative action in favor of the court's drive-through?

My vote is for race based policing. It's pretty obvious that many police departments are violating the EPC.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 13 2014 03:09 GMT
#26836
On October 13 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
I just dig the rationales offered. We have to conclude that the legislature's actions were irrational. We are sending a message attacking the dignity of this group. To quote Scalia in Windsor, "the majority has declared open season on any law that (in the opinion of the law’s opponents and any panel of like-minded federal judges) can be characterized as mean-spirited," in total opposition to O'Brien's "It is a familiar principle of constitutional law that this Court will not strike down an otherwise constitutional statute on the basis of an alleged illicit legislative motive." Anyways, the fight was won with the DOMA case and its hand-crafted key phrase; this is all just the denouement. What's next on the left's big laundry list of perceived societal wrongs that will bypass legislative action in favor of the court's drive-through?


It is irrational and the law's only purpose was an attempt to make homosexual relationships inferior to heterosexual ones because religious individuals didn't like them. I don't see why the court calling conservatives' BS on this issue is a bad thing.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-13 03:18:06
October 13 2014 03:12 GMT
#26837
On October 13 2014 08:48 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 07:02 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 13 2014 00:29 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Is Ebola crazy dangerous or is this just a slow news month? I don't get all the coverage for it, it's not like it's smallpox.

Was speaking to one person and they said "well yeah, it's not that deadly but you see we don't have enough vaccines for it because the government is unprepared, that's the issue". Was a baffling failure of logic.


Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.


Come in contact with yeah... But we don't exchange bodily fluids... If it was actually a threat to me in any way (like I worked in that hospital) I would just go all Howie Mandel until it blew over. There is really no reason for all the hype.

You DO exchange bodily fluids. Every item you touch leaves oils from your skin. Saliva and mucus can be aerosolized just from speech. If Ebola becomes more able to survive outside a host, it could easily be a problem in the US. In its current form, its absolutely no threat. But there's no reason to assume it will stay in its current form forever.

Is that why we ALL have Hepatitis B?! OH WAIT! WE DON'T! -_- It spreads practically the same way.

You have to understand, for the most part, the people that are getting infected from the developed world are health care workers that come in (hopefully indirect) contact with these patients and all their infectious fluids multiple times. Unless you are out there taking care of people that are sick with Ebola, you are not going to get sick yourself. Not unless your idea of casual contact is taking somebody's snot/spit/shit and rubbing it in your eyes and mouth repeatedly.

Also, name 1 virus that went from "bodily fluids" to "casual contact" in the course of a single lifetime. It won't stay in its current form forever, but the timescale for it to evolve drastically different traits is on the timescale of decades, if not centuries or even millennia.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-13 04:07:46
October 13 2014 04:04 GMT
#26838
On October 13 2014 12:12 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 08:48 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 07:02 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
On October 13 2014 01:16 TheTenthDoc wrote:
[quote]

Ebola is certainly deadly (though this strain is at the lower end of the historical viruses). The reason there's no vaccines or treatments is because there's simply never been a large-scale multi-nation outbreak, so there's been next to no financial incentive to create them.

All the current experimental vaccines and treatments that are being trialed only exist because the government has been funding research in case the virus was used as a biological weapon.

It's still a massive hysteria campaign, though, because in the end it'll probably kill fewer people in the US than the flu does every year.

Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.


Come in contact with yeah... But we don't exchange bodily fluids... If it was actually a threat to me in any way (like I worked in that hospital) I would just go all Howie Mandel until it blew over. There is really no reason for all the hype.

You DO exchange bodily fluids. Every item you touch leaves oils from your skin. Saliva and mucus can be aerosolized just from speech. If Ebola becomes more able to survive outside a host, it could easily be a problem in the US. In its current form, its absolutely no threat. But there's no reason to assume it will stay in its current form forever.

Is that why we ALL have Hepatitis B?! OH WAIT! WE DON'T! -_- It spreads practically the same way.

You have to understand, for the most part, the people that are getting infected from the developed world are health care workers that come in (hopefully indirect) contact with these patients and all their infectious fluids multiple times. Unless you are out there taking care of people that are sick with Ebola, you are not going to get sick yourself. Not unless your idea of casual contact is taking somebody's snot/spit/shit and rubbing it in your eyes and mouth repeatedly.

Also, name 1 virus that went from "bodily fluids" to "casual contact" in the course of a single lifetime. It won't stay in its current form forever, but the timescale for it to evolve drastically different traits is on the timescale of decades, if not centuries or even millennia.

Hepatitis and Ebola currently need quite a few virus particles to cause infection. I'm saying that Ebola could mutate to need fewer particles transferred to cause infection.

Touching a desk someone sneezed on, and then later eating lunch is essentially fluid transfer.

Ebola is not a threat to the western world right now. But there's no reason to assume it never will be.

On October 13 2014 12:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
I just dig the rationales offered. We have to conclude that the legislature's actions were irrational. We are sending a message attacking the dignity of this group. To quote Scalia in Windsor, "the majority has declared open season on any law that (in the opinion of the law’s opponents and any panel of like-minded federal judges) can be characterized as mean-spirited," in total opposition to O'Brien's "It is a familiar principle of constitutional law that this Court will not strike down an otherwise constitutional statute on the basis of an alleged illicit legislative motive." Anyways, the fight was won with the DOMA case and its hand-crafted key phrase; this is all just the denouement. What's next on the left's big laundry list of perceived societal wrongs that will bypass legislative action in favor of the court's drive-through?


It is irrational and the law's only purpose was an attempt to make homosexual relationships inferior to heterosexual ones because religious individuals didn't like them. I don't see why the court calling conservatives' BS on this issue is a bad thing.

Because rationality has nothing to do with constitutionality. The court's job isn't to say what's rational and what's not. Their job is to say what's constitutional and what's not.

For the record, I'm against the bans on gay marriage, but the courts are overstepping their authority.
Who called in the fleet?
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-13 04:16:45
October 13 2014 04:16 GMT
#26839
On October 13 2014 13:04 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 12:12 aksfjh wrote:
On October 13 2014 08:48 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 07:02 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 06:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:57 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 13 2014 05:46 Millitron wrote:
On October 13 2014 03:26 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Which was my point. Going "it's dangerous because the government made no vaccine for it because it's not a threat" is a nonsense.

Well its never infected this many people before. We didn't think we needed a vaccine, but we might. Diseases change, and its possible that Ebola could become more infectious, and then we're screwed.


More infectious how?

It could mutate to need fewer virus particles to cause infection. So contact with smaller amounts of infected fluid would cause infection. It could mutate to be infectious before showing symptoms, meaning you could infect a bunch of people before you realized you were sick. It could mutate to survive outside the body longer, so objects tainted with infected fluid would stay dangerous longer.


Yeah none of that sounds much more dangerous at all. Particularly not in the US. I guess there is a small chance of it getting out of hand in Africa and maybe, just maybe, killing almost as many people as malnutrition or dirty water...

It's hard to imagine something less threatening that has gotten nearly as much coverage. When it gets passed the number of people killed by Aspirin maybe we should come back to it.

Till then go ahead and mention new cases but it doesn't need any more than a few minutes a day reminding people how it is transmitted and if there are any new cases. But the hours of coverage are just ridiculous.

Hell, a little less religion would go a long way in stemming these outbreaks in Africa. As it's religious practices around infected dead that contributes toward infections. Would probably help breakdown some of the barriers regarding understanding microbial life and its interactions with humans too?

I don't think you realize how many people you come in contact with every day. If, for instance, Ebola becomes contagious before it shows symptoms, you could infect hundreds of people before you even knew you were sick. And then they can start infecting people and so on. It's exponential growth. Luckily for us, it is currently a pretty small exponent. But there's no reason it couldn't get better at infecting people.


Come in contact with yeah... But we don't exchange bodily fluids... If it was actually a threat to me in any way (like I worked in that hospital) I would just go all Howie Mandel until it blew over. There is really no reason for all the hype.

You DO exchange bodily fluids. Every item you touch leaves oils from your skin. Saliva and mucus can be aerosolized just from speech. If Ebola becomes more able to survive outside a host, it could easily be a problem in the US. In its current form, its absolutely no threat. But there's no reason to assume it will stay in its current form forever.

Is that why we ALL have Hepatitis B?! OH WAIT! WE DON'T! -_- It spreads practically the same way.

You have to understand, for the most part, the people that are getting infected from the developed world are health care workers that come in (hopefully indirect) contact with these patients and all their infectious fluids multiple times. Unless you are out there taking care of people that are sick with Ebola, you are not going to get sick yourself. Not unless your idea of casual contact is taking somebody's snot/spit/shit and rubbing it in your eyes and mouth repeatedly.

Also, name 1 virus that went from "bodily fluids" to "casual contact" in the course of a single lifetime. It won't stay in its current form forever, but the timescale for it to evolve drastically different traits is on the timescale of decades, if not centuries or even millennia.

Hepatitis and Ebola currently need quite a few virus particles to cause infection. I'm saying that Ebola could mutate to need fewer particles transferred to cause infection.

Touching a desk someone sneezed on, and then later eating lunch is essentially fluid transfer.

Ebola is not a threat to the western world right now. But there's no reason to assume it never will be.

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 12:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On October 13 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:
On October 13 2014 09:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A federal judge struck down Alaska’s ban on same-sex marriage Sunday evening.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Alaska ruled that the state's ban was unconstitutional under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Timothy M. Burgess wrote that any relationship between the ban and government interests was "either nonexistent or purely speculative."

"Alaska’s same-sex marriage laws are a prime example of how 'the varying treatment of different groups or persons is so unrelated to the achievement of any combination of legitimate purposes that we can only conclude that the legislature’s actions were irrational,'” Burgess wrote, citing an earlier court ruling.

"Refusing the rights and responsibilities afforded by legal marriage sends the public a government-sponsored message that same-sex couples and their familial relationships do not warrant the status, benefits, and dignity given to couples of the opposite sex," the Alaskan court decision continued.


Source
I just dig the rationales offered. We have to conclude that the legislature's actions were irrational. We are sending a message attacking the dignity of this group. To quote Scalia in Windsor, "the majority has declared open season on any law that (in the opinion of the law’s opponents and any panel of like-minded federal judges) can be characterized as mean-spirited," in total opposition to O'Brien's "It is a familiar principle of constitutional law that this Court will not strike down an otherwise constitutional statute on the basis of an alleged illicit legislative motive." Anyways, the fight was won with the DOMA case and its hand-crafted key phrase; this is all just the denouement. What's next on the left's big laundry list of perceived societal wrongs that will bypass legislative action in favor of the court's drive-through?


It is irrational and the law's only purpose was an attempt to make homosexual relationships inferior to heterosexual ones because religious individuals didn't like them. I don't see why the court calling conservatives' BS on this issue is a bad thing.

Because rationality has nothing to do with constitutionality. The court's job isn't to say what's rational and what's not. Their job is to say what's constitutional and what's not.

For the record, I'm against the bans on gay marriage, but the courts are overstepping their authority.


No they're not.

If the law isn't rational, then its only outcome is discriminatory, which is unconstitutional, therefore it's in the courts jurisdiction.

This is high school stuff. The fact that you think that the courts stopping discriminatory definitions of "marriage" is "overstepping authority" is quite disturbing.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
October 13 2014 07:01 GMT
#26840
Dude courts arent supposed to shut down things cause they are irrational. If You allow that next time You could end up with judges shutting down nuclear powerplants, or big cars or fraking cause its "irrational" to that particular judge.
Pathetic Greta hater.
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