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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
8 Posts
here's a tough question for christians: what if the military (or any other department of the US government) required you to swear an oath saying that there is no god? How would that make you feel? What you all go "phh it's just an oath, just say the words LULZ you don't have to believe it, stop making a mountain out of a molehill" as you currently say to atheists who are offended by "so help me god" in the current oath, or would it offend you, would it feel like the government was trying to trample all over your beliefs in defiance of the Constitution?
Because that's how it feels to nonchristians (in case any christian ever actually cares how someone from another system of beliefs feels)
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8 Posts
On September 08 2014 00:50 Livelovedie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 00:34 Cordell wrote:On September 07 2014 10:06 Livelovedie wrote:On September 07 2014 08:06 Cordell wrote:
I should add that as a computer scientist, if I can mathematically prove that a problem is unsolvable, I'm not going to spend huge chunks of my life trying to solve it anyway. Same thing with my agnosticism. I'm under no obligation to you, myself, or anyone else to "take a stand one way or another" about the existence of a diety You are under no obligation to prove anything to anyone, but to think of this one aspect of life as any different than any other decision you make is absurd. Do you acknowledge then that taking no stance on whether fairies, unicorns, and wizards are real is equally valid as saying you don't believe wizards don't exist? When are lives and work are largely based on assuming something doesn't exist until proven otherwise why do you take a different approach when it involves a god? Even if you feel unqualified to make this decision, you don't think one way or the other? at first glance it may seem like dragging fairies and unicorns into this discussion is a completely asinine tangential strawman (and it is, of course) but yes, if a majority of my countrymen honestly believed in those things and planned their lives around them (hypocritically or otherwise) and tried to use the powers of our US government to compel me to profess oaths of loyalty to those creatures, then yes, in that case I would declare myself adamently a-unicornist and a-fairyist. However, agnosticism is not about whether or not creatures exist, it's about the empicircal epistimelogical limits of human knowledge, and the folly of people claiming to know about things that can't be known (i.e. what happens after death, what happened before the big bang, etc.) which is a few levels of philosophical abstraction above debates about the existence of wizards Doesn't it seem like a low standard of proof for you to change a position from adamantly no to a more doubtful position on either side just based of the popularity of that position. Would you consider yourself an a-climate-change? Since that is probably a better example than the one used earlier.
LOL standard of proof? There is no proof, the only standard is whether or not my government is trying to compel me to acknowledge the existence of a supernatural entity in direct violation of the establishment clause of the US Constitution.
Again with the false dichotomies, I don't have to take a position on "either side" because it's not a 2-sided question. Agnosticism is the rejection of the question of a diety's existence in the first place, rendering a yes/no answer or "belief" meaningless. /mindblown
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Rejection of a question is a belief.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well at this point you'd make the distinction between atheistic agnosticism (disdain for the question of divine beings), and epistemic agnosticism (well we dunno so not going to hold a position)
but this impassioned effort of trying to assign your opponents labels is silly. it is largely an expression of the belief that no matter what, you gotta care about the divine or some other position the opponent does not hold, (fail to acknowledge/realize. ).
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After the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the government called on police to become the eyes and ears of homeland security on America’s highways.
Local officers, county deputies and state troopers were encouraged to act more aggressively in searching for suspicious people, drugs and other contraband. The departments of Homeland Security and Justice spent millions on police training.
The effort succeeded, but it had an impact that has been largely hidden from public view: the spread of an aggressive brand of policing that has spurred the seizure of hundreds of millions of dollars in cash from motorists and others not charged with crimes, a Washington Post investigation found. Thousands of people have been forced to fight legal battles that can last more than a year to get their money back.
Behind the rise in seizures is a little-known cottage industry of private police-training firms that teach the techniques of “highway interdiction” to departments across the country.
One of those firms created a private intelligence network known as Black Asphalt Electronic Networking & Notification System that enabled police nationwide to share detailed reports about American motorists — criminals and the innocent alike — including their Social Security numbers, addresses and identifying tattoos, as well as hunches about which drivers to stop.
Many of the reports have been funneled to federal agencies and fusion centers as part of the government’s burgeoning law enforcement intelligence systems — despite warnings from state and federal authorities that the information could violate privacy and constitutional protections.
A thriving subculture of road officers on the network now competes to see who can seize the most cash and contraband, describing their exploits in the network’s chat rooms and sharing “trophy shots” of money and drugs. Some police advocate highway interdiction as a way of raising revenue for cash-strapped municipalities.
Source
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According to the principles of free market capitalism, competition encourages efficiency and innovation, yielding higher-quality products for consumers.
Although the U.S. has a mixed economy — a private business sector regulated and taxed by a government that provides basic public services — the majority of Americans believe capitalism is our society’s backbone. Undoubtedly, no other economic system has approximated capitalism’s endurance and successes.
However, as the socialistic aspects of our economy are strangled by the self-interests of the few, capitalism, unthreatened by a viable competitor, runs the risk of imploding under the weight of its hubris and excesses.
The tragedy of our economic path is made more poignant by similarities to our past. During the first Gilded Age (some say we’re in the midst of the second), spanning the late 19th century, the industrialized U.S. economy grew rapidly, increasing national wealth by as much as 3.8 percent annually throughout the 1880s.
Comparable to the present, these riches, three-quarters of which were controlled by the wealthiest 10 percent of the population, were unequally distributed. The first Gilded Age also was characterized by indignant industrialists who opposed workers’ rights, paid off government officials who attended to the concerns of their affluent patrons, and congressional gridlock.
Source
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HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said.
Source
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On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source
More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law...
"Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car...
EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning.
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On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning.
I feel the same way. So many things are being illegally done by our government, and with all the global chess pieces on the board, scary stuff with our own law enforcement becoming more aggressive.
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On September 08 2014 07:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +According to the principles of free market capitalism, competition encourages efficiency and innovation, yielding higher-quality products for consumers.
Although the U.S. has a mixed economy — a private business sector regulated and taxed by a government that provides basic public services — the majority of Americans believe capitalism is our society’s backbone. Undoubtedly, no other economic system has approximated capitalism’s endurance and successes.
However, as the socialistic aspects of our economy are strangled by the self-interests of the few, capitalism, unthreatened by a viable competitor, runs the risk of imploding under the weight of its hubris and excesses.
The tragedy of our economic path is made more poignant by similarities to our past. During the first Gilded Age (some say we’re in the midst of the second), spanning the late 19th century, the industrialized U.S. economy grew rapidly, increasing national wealth by as much as 3.8 percent annually throughout the 1880s.
Comparable to the present, these riches, three-quarters of which were controlled by the wealthiest 10 percent of the population, were unequally distributed. The first Gilded Age also was characterized by indignant industrialists who opposed workers’ rights, paid off government officials who attended to the concerns of their affluent patrons, and congressional gridlock. Source
It's worth noting that capitalism is a global system, not an American one, and if we're really going to tackle income inequality it will require a global solution.
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On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning.
Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified.
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On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified.
A year... a fucking year to 18 months for this? At worst, a fine would have sufficed. That is not "some" punishment. I've seen corporate fuckheads who whore out millions get less than this. I usually never post in the politics thread because it's so toxic, but fuck this justice in our country.
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On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified.
I disagree. No punishment is justified for her crime. What would've been just, is if she had an abortion clinic near her home she could've taken her daughter to. What would have been just, is if healthcare was treated as a right, not a product, and she could've taken her daughter to the hospital for a routine abortion. There was no justice here, not in my opinion. This woman was a victim and justice would only have been served if the courts apologized to her on behalf of the state, and worked to increase access to safe abortions.
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On September 09 2014 00:31 Reaper9 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. A year... a fucking year to 18 months for this? At worst, a fine would have sufficed. That is not "some" punishment. I've seen corporate fuckheads who whore out millions get less than this. I usually never post in the politics thread because it's so toxic, but fuck this justice in our country.
Most serve less time than they are sentenced to.
I've seen corporate fuckheads get much more than this. Things vary a lot based on what crime was committed, what evidence prosecutors have.
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On September 09 2014 00:50 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. I disagree. No punishment is justified for her crime. What would've been just, is if she had an abortion clinic near her home she could've taken her daughter to. What would have been just, is if healthcare was treated as a right, not a product, and she could've taken her daughter to the hospital for a routine abortion. There was no justice here, not in my opinion. This woman was a victim and justice would only have been served if the courts apologized to her on behalf of the state, and worked to increase access to safe abortions.
She could have driven to the nearest clinic, which was a couple hours away.
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On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified.
Haha I almost took that seriously for a second. Yeah I mean why not give her a worse punishment than the teenager who killed 4 people driving drunk? No one denying anyone justice around here.
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On September 09 2014 01:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:50 sc2isnotdying wrote:On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. I disagree. No punishment is justified for her crime. What would've been just, is if she had an abortion clinic near her home she could've taken her daughter to. What would have been just, is if healthcare was treated as a right, not a product, and she could've taken her daughter to the hospital for a routine abortion. There was no justice here, not in my opinion. This woman was a victim and justice would only have been served if the courts apologized to her on behalf of the state, and worked to increase access to safe abortions. She could have driven to the nearest clinic, which was a couple hours away.
Fair enough, but not really my point. This isn't the type of coat hanger abortion that the law is meant to discourage. This was a woman who was trying to do right by her daughter and in the process displayed some poor judgement. A responsible prosecutor wouldn't have pursued this. This feels like an ideological crusade, some Christian prosecutor who thinks abortion is murder, and using any means available to him/her to punish women who seek abortions. This, in a country where we're told abortion is a constitutional right. That's a gross misuse of the justice system.
And in any case, given the overburdened nature of our prison system, this is the type of non-violent crime that should be dealt with non-prison sentencing.
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On September 09 2014 01:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. Haha I almost took that seriously for a second. Yeah I mean why not give her a worse punishment than the teenager who killed 4 people driving drunk? No one denying anyone justice around here.
Comparing one unrelated case to another doesn't carry a lot of value. Heck, you're talking about different laws in different jurisdictions.
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On September 09 2014 01:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:02 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. Haha I almost took that seriously for a second. Yeah I mean why not give her a worse punishment than the teenager who killed 4 people driving drunk? No one denying anyone justice around here. Comparing one unrelated case to another doesn't carry a lot of value. Heck, you're talking about different laws in different jurisdictions.
What does it matter? Unless you are going to try to tell me that teen was how most teens get treated in similar circumstances?
If you really think that guy and some poor person who did the same exact thing would get remotely the same outcome you are completely delusional.
The same for this case. You think if she was rich she would of even found herself remotely near this situation? Of course not...
The blatant and obvious inequality of our laws doesn't stop at how they enforced, the very nature of how they are written creates different realities for different people.
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On September 09 2014 01:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 09 2014 01:02 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2014 00:26 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 08 2014 15:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 08 2014 13:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:HARRISBURG, Pa., Sept 6 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.
Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.
She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen's lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.
Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.
Her daughter experienced severe cramping and bleeding after taking the pills and Whalen took her to a hospital hear her home for treatment, the newspaper said. Source More prison time/community service for having an abortion than you get for settling a multi-million dollar heist..... Gotta love the law... "Equal justice under law" my ass yet again.. Just take it down, along with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty... They both mean absolutely nothing.... Or if we are just going to lie to people, we might as well promise them all a free pony and a new car... EDIT: I am a little drunk I'll revisit this sentiment in the morning. Equal justice under the law doesn't mean equal punishment for different crimes. She illegally imported and administered prescription drugs that resulted in injury to a minor. Some punishment seems justified. Haha I almost took that seriously for a second. Yeah I mean why not give her a worse punishment than the teenager who killed 4 people driving drunk? No one denying anyone justice around here. Comparing one unrelated case to another doesn't carry a lot of value. Heck, you're talking about different laws in different jurisdictions. What does it matter? Unless you are going to try to tell me that teen was how most teens get treated in similar circumstances? If you really think that guy and some poor person who did the same exact thing would get remotely the same outcome you are completely delusional.
Rich guy Bernie Madoff got 150 years in jail for financial fraud. Real estate agent Yevgenity Charikov got zero time for mortgage fraud (source). Sometimes regular people get a better deal than the rich. That's just how these things go - every case is different.
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EPT
