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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 125
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
OK, fat or crypt keepers :p | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
why do the school districts need to whore themselves out to make money? I agree that they haven't done a good job of food at all, that's a longer story and it doesn't invalidate what I'm saying. Well, actually now... Most problems in public education in America can be directly traced back to money issues and legislative dumbassery. It's the same problem in higher education. Why do they need more and more money? Because the trend in education for 40 years at all levels has to add more and more bureaucracy, more and more administrators. And who would object to spending more money on the children? Too bad Dubya and Ted Kennedy had a get-together and made the playing field even more complex and money-driven and riddled with mines. Why are companies interested in putting fast food into schools? Because they can get money from Uncle Sam for doing it. Why do the schools accept? Because they can get money for Uncle Sam for doing it. All of it is a result of unintended consequences of the good intentions of government. your post was just the same old ideology and I think people already know how I feel about it. I'm not going to pretend like we're not enemies - I don't think you're a reasonable person. That's right. Never forget, better to be dead than Red! Remember the Wolverines! I remember reading about Kosygin trying to explain to Kruschev why the trade unionists in France were so hostile to the Soviet delegation at the 4-power conference that took place at Versailles just prior to the Geneva conference in 1959. As Kosygin said, "...they'd rather die than live the way we do." We are enemies. The only problem is, all your base are belong to us and you're floating the red flag off a command center in the corner of the map  it's in the interest of capitalism never to teach kids how to make good choices. the subject in capitalist society remains an toddler his entire life, demanding "I me me mine" and throwing a temper tantrum whenever he doesn't get it. our culture does not believe in disciplining children - only spoiling them to their own long-term detriment. we remain, for the large part, in a permanently infantile state. (this last is a theme which fascinates me in general, and applies to more things, not all of them bad: Now if that isn't a blast of pure ideology, it'd be hard to see what would be. There are always a plethora of rationalizations as to why people don't agree with something, and it's always amazing how many of these explanations are self-serving intellectually and emotionally, and also rely so much on a synthesis of the attitudes and ideas (or lack thereof) of the petit bourgeoisie and lumpenproletariat in one stupid mass of humanity, or rather, the raising of the proletariat and lumpenproletariat into the petit bourgeoisie, without transforming their attitudes and conventions. Humans aren't dumb and they aren't infantile just because Marxism is shitty. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
look. I don't know what kind of America y'all come from. Maybe it's the America of conformism and greed and sucking corporate yankee dick and walkin through piss and callin it rain. Maybe it's the America where you get to blithely ignore injustice because the plantation man's making you rich. But the America I come from, a man's gotta stand up for what's right, even if that ain't so popular. I'm as deeply American as any of you, and MY America is worth fighting for. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:30 Roe wrote: "I me mine" - was that a reference to the beatles song? subversive anthem or sincere expression of boomer solipsism... you decide! sometimes this song plays in the coffee shop where I teach. the coffee shop is full of suits doing whatever it is that suits spend their time doing. i wonder if they ever listen? now they just package up the counterculture in shiny boxes so the boomers can look back nostalgically on a time when they used to care about something besides themselves: And everybody knows that it's now or never Everybody knows that it's me or you And everybody knows that you live forever Ah when you've done a line or two Everybody knows the deal is rotten Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton For your ribbons and bows And everybody knows je sais bien mais quand même... | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The danger for Republicans is that the budget cuts will severely weaken public support for the austerity theme that the party has been promoting since 2010. The cuts will make "deficit reduction" something very real to average American citizens and business and something that is often quite painful rather than an abstract debate over numbers. While Americans have historically been hostile to government, they tend to support specific government services when asked by pollsters. So Washington's overall spending might not be popular as a concept, but Social Security and Medicare are. The spending cuts will shift the debate toward the specifics. Americans will watch as government services are retrenched. The last time this happened, things didn't go well for the GOP. When the federal government shut down in 1995-1996 because of a budget standoff between Republicans and President Clinton, the GOP faced a huge backlash when Americans were unable to access basic government services, such as obtaining a passport or visiting the national zoo. President Obama has already been using the bully pulpit to make this case, appearing with first responders and warning of how the cuts will impact police, hospitals, teachers, airline workers and more. Standing in front of a group of police officers, Obama said, "Federal prosecutors will have to close cases and let criminals go." While these speeches are a form of political theater, they are based on very real possibilities. The budget cuts that result from sequestration would just be the first of the threats the GOP faces. If the government has to shut down as a result of a standoff when the government's general operating budget expires in late March or the debt ceiling is not raised this spring, Republicans will continue to lose the public's confidence in their ability to govern and the reduction in services will highlight to Americans what the government actually does. Source | ||
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CrazedNight
United States65 Posts
On February 25 2013 06:45 sam!zdat wrote: thank god I'm not a democrat We are not teaching them to make choices, we are teaching them to drink soda and eat fast food, because that is what is being given to them in schools. it's not "my place" to say that they're making the wrong choices, but it is the place of people whose job it is to educate people about how to make the right choices. and people are making the wrong choices, that's why we have to pay so much healthcare to deal with the wrong choices they're making. get all advertising out of schools. get fast food out of schools. teach kids to eat vegetables, because vegetables are fucking delicious. give them access to food with vegetables in it. teach them not to eat too much. take them to a factory farm. then take them to an organic farm. let them see what things are like. the only thing I believe less than "the government knows what's best for them" is "corporations know what's best for them," and corporations dictate to our government what the government can tell people about what to eat. It's disgusting. and corporations own the media and have so much money to throw into advertising that they get to muddle everything and control the discourse about food. it is objectively true that fast food is bad for you. none of your relativist liberal ideology here - that's some weak sauce bro. the government is not allowed to disseminate obviously true and useful information about nutrition because of pressure from industrial agriculture and fast food lobby. that's just tyranny edit: we and the french both teach kids how to eat in schools. the french teach them how to eat healthily. we teach them how to eat fast food. I never ate junk food in school. I go to a private school where they do not serve "fast food" in school. You say that vegetables are delicious, but that is only your opinion. It's quite possible that when those children grow up and think for themselves what they wish to eat, they may think vegetables are disgusting. I certainly hate vegetables, and I'm not obese. Maybe.. people eat fast food because it tastes good, not because of social conditioning? It's your culture's diet. you were raised to eat it. it's still terrible for you, and the rest of us have to pay the social costs for the terrible diet. If you started eating real food, you'd find it tastes much better, I promise, and then that stuff would taste like the crap it is. lol. I hate to tell you, but everyone's tastes are different. Because you don't like pizza doesn't mean you should assume everyone else in the world doesn't like pizza, and their brain is being tricked by society to actually believe they do. I eat what you consider "real food" and I do not like it as much as pizza. And also, not everyone who enjoys a pizza every now and then is morbidly obese. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
This seems obvious but i think it will go different this time. Obama and the democrats can only go so far in blaming the republicans for every spending cut they have to make. The fear of beeing blamed and the lost election is what made the republicans go along in january but we 2 months further now and i dont think the republicans have or need to have this fear now. My guess is the republicans wont give in, and wont take the blame for it either. After all its obama who is president and he is the one who has to come up with a credible solution for the budget and the debt one way or the other. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On February 26 2013 07:22 CrazedNight wrote: I never ate junk food in school. I go to a private school where they do not serve "fast food" in school. You say that vegetables are delicious, but that is only your opinion. It's quite possible that when those children grow up and think for themselves what they wish to eat, they may think vegetables are disgusting. I certainly hate vegetables, and I'm not obese. Maybe.. people eat fast food because it tastes good, not because of social conditioning? lol. I hate to tell you, but everyone's tastes are different. Because you don't like pizza doesn't mean you should assume everyone else in the world doesn't like pizza, and their brain is being tricked by society to actually believe they do. I eat what you consider "real food" and I do not like it as much as pizza. And also, not everyone who enjoys a pizza every now and then is morbidly obese. While I agree in principle that people should have the right to eat whatever they like, if eating habits end up costing society a great deal in productivity, health related costs, etc. then opinions stop being just opinions. If those who eat healthily (+those who somehow eat "unhealthily" but still manage to be "healthy") have to pay more money to keep those morbidly obese, hypertensive, diabetics going then its sort of in everyone's best interest to have there be more people who eat healthily. Obviously this doesn't mean firebombing McDonald's and forcing people to eat kale and tofu salad at gunpoint, but there is precedent for incentivizing healthy behavior that benefits society as a whole. | ||
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CrazedNight
United States65 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:18 ZeaL. wrote: While I agree in principle that people should have the right to eat whatever they like, if eating habits end up costing society a great deal in productivity, health related costs, etc. then opinions stop being just opinions. If those who eat healthily (+those who somehow eat "unhealthily" but still manage to be "healthy") have to pay more money to keep those morbidly obese, hypertensive, diabetics going then its sort of in everyone's best interest to have there be more people who eat healthily. Obviously this doesn't mean firebombing McDonald's and forcing people to eat kale and tofu salad at gunpoint, but there is precedent for incentivizing healthy behavior that benefits society as a whole. I agree, people should eat healthily. I was not arguing against that. sam!zdat wrote that junk food doesn't actually taste good and society just tricks our minds into thinking it tastes good. That's what I was arguing against. And also, there's more to being healthy than just eating healthy foods. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:18 ZeaL. wrote: While I agree in principle that people should have the right to eat whatever they like, if eating habits end up costing society a great deal in productivity, health related costs, etc. then opinions stop being just opinions. If those who eat healthily (+those who somehow eat "unhealthily" but still manage to be "healthy") have to pay more money to keep those morbidly obese, hypertensive, diabetics going then its sort of in everyone's best interest to have there be more people who eat healthily. Obviously this doesn't mean firebombing McDonald's and forcing people to eat kale and tofu salad at gunpoint, but there is precedent for incentivizing healthy behavior that benefits society as a whole. I would say there's more in government at state and federal level that think like you than would think differently. If you can prove that personal eating habits cost "productivity, health related costs, etc" then those eating habits fall under the purview of the state and federal government. That's where the right ends. The second somebody can prove that the eating habits cost society something. Agreeing in principle is awfully sweet of you. Cause I'm all for freedom and all that but you know, once its in everybody's best interest to put a stop to things, it's just got to stop. And nah, it aint about forcing people to eat kale and tofu salad at gunpoint, just making all the other stuff prohibited or too expensive to go out and buy every day. Teaching aint good enough if some people will ignore it and go out and eat that 900 calorie burger. We've been teaching about the personal dangers of smoking for years and yet cigarettes still sell! You gotta make that burger illegal to sell or make it too expensive to buy. Only then will society's interests be advanced and productivity increased and health related costs decreased. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Monday said he would support a sequestration replacement bill that raises $600 billion in additional revenue if Democrats agree to unspecified entitlement reforms. During an interview with CNN, the South Carolina Republican hinted there may be a last-ditch, grand bargain attempt to avert the sequester-related budget cuts set to begin March 1. Graham muddied a GOP talking point in the process. Graham called sequestration irresponsible and the byproduct of a political system that bucks hard choices. He had tough words for his own party too, accusing House Republicans of using budgetary tricks to make their sequester replacement plan work, and chastising Senate Republicans for not presenting a plan of their own. "We're the party of fiscal conservatism. Have we put together a plan to cut $20 billion between March and October?" Graham said. "No, the House passed a plan to substitute sequestration. The Senate Republicans have yet to offer a plan. ... But the House used savings outside of the 2013 window. If you think this is that easy, I challenge any member of Congress to come up with a proposal to cut $85 billion out of the federal budget between March 1st and Oct. 1st." But Graham's most remarkable words came when he was asked about an alternate plan, floated by Senate Republicans, to grant President Barack Obama greater authority to target the $85 billion in cuts slated for this year. "We'll criticize everything he does," Graham acknowledged. "We'll say, 'Mr. President, it is now up to you to find this $85 billion in savings and we'll say it’s to make it easier for you.' But every decision he’ll make, we'll criticize." Source | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:41 CrazedNight wrote: sam!zdat wrote that junk food doesn't actually taste good and society just tricks our minds into thinking it tastes good. Actually, evolution tricks your mind into thinking it tastes good, in addition to our social conditioning. taste preferences which were adaptive in our evolutionary past work against us in the modern age of processed foods. Over time, because food manufacturers compete with each other to see how efficiently they can mainline glucose into your bloodstream, there has been an arms race in the taste-signals that are being sent to your brain. To an american kid, a fruit tastes not-so-sweet, even though to a non-american fruits are deliciously sweet. That's because you've become desensitized because of the "loudness war" of competitive processed foods. If you start eating real food for a while, and then you eat some fast food, you will find it tastes disgusting and fake, I promise. many fewer things are matters of opinion than most people think. you guys think it's an accident that americans are the fattest and most diabetic people in the world? cmon. it's embarrassing. eat some real food. end the corn and soy subsidies. let's get real local farmers growing real food, and then let's eat the delicious real food, it'll be great. if you eat a lot of fast food/junk food and think it tastes good, it's because your parents and your society have failed you and are guilty of criminal negligence  I suppose I should say, I approve of fast food in the same way I approve of drugs. I think they're basically equivalent. edit: no, I take that back. drugs are much better for you than fast food | ||
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bumwithagun
United States153 Posts
Its no corporate conspiracy, but the product of history. Americans moved quickly into the cities before the technology existed for there to be lots of fresh fruits and veggies. People in cities got used to eating lots of meat and bread, fat and salt. There had been a slow cultural move to rediscover fresh food in the US. Now? Look at what people eat in every college town/large culturally influential city in America. you are fighting an old fight dude. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 26 2013 13:50 bumwithagun wrote: you are fighting an old fight dude. last I checked, I'm still subsidizing corn and soy and permitting factory farms to exist in my country. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On February 26 2013 07:45 Rassy wrote: This seems obvious but i think it will go different this time. Obama and the democrats can only go so far in blaming the republicans for every spending cut they have to make. The fear of beeing blamed and the lost election is what made the republicans go along in january but we 2 months further now and i dont think the republicans have or need to have this fear now. My guess is the republicans wont give in, and wont take the blame for it either. After all its obama who is president and he is the one who has to come up with a credible solution for the budget and the debt one way or the other. I doubt it. Yes, a lot of people see government as dysfunctional right now, and they do see that failing as a bipartisan issue. However, they see the president, "leader" of the Democrats, calling for jobs programs and reinvestment into various parts of our nation. On the other side, we have a solidified Republican opposition that can only propose budget cuts. Meanwhile, the poster boy for each party (R: Job creators, D: the working family) are having drastically different experiences in this economy. Record number of people are still unemployed, underemployed, and/or underpaid, while the stock market and corporate profits are at record highs. People may hate taxes, but they're getting easier to swallow when the choices appear to be more taxes for those doing well or hitting those that are already hurting. | ||
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bumwithagun
United States153 Posts
On February 26 2013 14:08 sam!zdat wrote: last I checked, I'm still subsidizing corn and soy and permitting factory farms to exist in my country. No one thinks this is a good idea. Part of the price we pay for our political system is that its tough to get policies like these off the books, even when no one thinks they are good ones. No president wants to expend the political capital on that small fight. It says nothing about our food culture. Its a relic of depression era policy | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On February 26 2013 14:19 bumwithagun wrote: No one thinks this is a good idea. Part of the price we pay for our political system is that its tough to get policies like these off the books, even when no one thinks they are good ones. No president wants to expend the political capital on that small fight. It says nothing about our food culture. Its a relic of depression era policy A relic that ends up helping during severe droughts, like now. Granted, in better times, they shouldn't be as prevalent, but they aren't ALWAYS bad policies, even today. | ||
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