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thank god I'm not a democrat
We are not teaching them to make choices, we are teaching them to drink soda and eat fast food, because that is what is being given to them in schools.
it's not "my place" to say that they're making the wrong choices, but it is the place of people whose job it is to educate people about how to make the right choices. and people are making the wrong choices, that's why we have to pay so much healthcare to deal with the wrong choices they're making.
get all advertising out of schools. get fast food out of schools. teach kids to eat vegetables, because vegetables are fucking delicious. give them access to food with vegetables in it. teach them not to eat too much. take them to a factory farm. then take them to an organic farm. let them see what things are like.
the only thing I believe less than "the government knows what's best for them" is "corporations know what's best for them," and corporations dictate to our government what the government can tell people about what to eat. It's disgusting. and corporations own the media and have so much money to throw into advertising that they get to muddle everything and control the discourse about food.
it is objectively true that fast food is bad for you. none of your relativist liberal ideology here - that's some weak sauce bro. the government is not allowed to disseminate obviously true and useful information about nutrition because of pressure from industrial agriculture and fast food lobby. that's just tyranny
edit: we and the french both teach kids how to eat in schools. the french teach them how to eat healthily. we teach them how to eat fast food.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Anyway, "others have tried and fail" is not an argument, and it never will be. Just do it right and fix what those other states couldn't. Not saying it'll work out for South Carolina, but if they learn from the others' mistakes maybe they can be successful. At the very least, I admire the initiative.
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Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options. People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good. You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice. Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there.
Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make. Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's.
Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work. All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government, Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons.
On February 25 2013 06:53 Souma wrote:
Anyway, "others have tried and fail" is not an argument, and it never will be. Just do it right and fix what those other states couldn't. Not saying it'll work out for South Carolina, but if they learn from the others' mistakes maybe they can be successful. At the very least, I admire the initiative.
You're absolutely mad on this. Of course "others have tried and failed" is an argument and a really good one. Do you want a communist government or a faceist government? Do you want a Cesar chosen by the senate or a king to rule the land? The definition of madness is repeating the same thing over and over again and thinking that somehow the outcome will be different. The south Carolina government knows that its not going to succeed with this and anyone who thinks different shares in this madness.
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On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:
Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options.
you must be missing the part where I've been saying "we should provide better options." only we can't, be fast food corporations exert an enormous amount of influence trying to prevent us from doing so.
there's a whole history of how fast food got into schools, it didn't use to be that way. again, I recommend Marion Nestle's book Food Politics.
People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good.
Pizza and soda DONT taste good. People develop those habits. Non americans who weren't brought up eating that junk all think we're crazy. I don't eat junk food anymore, and now it all tastes like artificial crap to me. We are taught to eat that way.
You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice.
"agribusiness"...? Yeah, I'm the big bad "eat your veggies" lobby, you've discovered my secret plan.
Actually, I'm in favor of this "small business" right wingers are always nattering on about and then fucking over with their corporate-dick-sucking agenda. local agriculture bro. create some jobs.
Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there.
factory farming is so cheap mainly because we subsidize the fuck out of it, so we can feed our population cheap food instead of just paying them a living wage so they can eat real food. End the corn and soy subsidies, start calculating externalities for environmental degradation, air pollution, land value degradation for communities in proximity to factory farms, and then we can talk about economics. The economics of food in our country are totally artificial, propped up by the farm lobby.
Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make.
No, I believe in education. This may be the difference between our political philosophies.
Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's.
great, get your team on this please.
Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work.
No, it is tyranny. We are being tyrannized by the incestuous oligarchy of corporations and government, who have totally subverted the democratic process and are ruining this great country.
All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government,
This is factually incorrect, go read about it. For every harsh truth they are forced to reveal, the government propagates ten of their lies. and the FDA which is in the pocket of agribusiness has an elaborate system of allowing them to make totally misleading health claims. The regulatory agencies in charge of this stuff are totally dysfunctional, because of political pressure from the lobbyists and the privileging a shallow notion of 'economic growth' over the health of our people.
go read about the clusterfuck that was the McGovern committee which produced our utter bullshit "food pyramid"
Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons.
It's not a level playing field. It's the plutocrats standing on top of a mountain pissing down on the people.
We have no separation of powers at all. That's why we live in a tyranny.
edit: one of my students has been taking a course about food, and I've been reading all her texts to help her with them (she's ESL). I've been reading quite a bit lately about this whole food industry mess, and it's fucked up
edit; if you're not willing to man up and do something about the disastrous state of the american diet, DONT YOU DARE complain about healthcare costs
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:
You're absolutely mad on this. Of course "others have tried and failed" is an argument and a really good one. Do you want a communist government or a faceist government? Do you want a Cesar chosen by the senate or a king to rule the land? The definition of madness is repeating the same thing over and over again and thinking that somehow the outcome will be different. The south Carolina government knows that its not going to succeed with this and anyone who thinks different shares in this madness.
Who says they're gonna do the same thing? This is why what you're saying is not an argument. Just because they want practically the same thing does not mean it'll be implemented the exact same way with the same rules, regulations, whatnot. Things can be done right. If you looked at failed democracies and said, "Oh, hey, they tried it and it failed!" we would get nowhere.
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On February 25 2013 07:15 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:
Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options.
you must be missing the part where I've been saying "we should provide better options." there's a whole history of how fast food got into schools, it didn't use to be that way. again, I recommend Marion Nestle's book Food Politics. Show nested quote +
People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good.
Pizza and soda DONT taste good. People develop those habits. Non americans who weren't brought up eating that junk all think we're crazy. I don't eat junk food anymore, and now it all tastes like artificial crap to me. We are taught to eat that way. Show nested quote +
You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice.
"agribusiness"...? Yeah, I'm the big bad "eat your veggies" lobby, you've discovered my secret plan. Actually, I'm in favor of this "small business" right wingers are always nattering on about and then fucking over with their corporate-dick-sucking agenda. local agriculture bro. create some jobs. Show nested quote +
Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there.
factory farming is so cheap mainly because we subsidize the fuck out of it, so we can feed our population cheap food instead of just paying them a living wage so they can eat real food. End the corn and soy subsidies, start calculating externalities for environmental degradation, air pollution, land value degradation for communities in proximity to factory farms, and then we can talk about economics. The economics of food in our country are totally artificial, propped up by the farm lobby. Show nested quote +
Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make.
No, I believe in education. This may be the difference between our political philosophies. Show nested quote +
Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's.
great, get your team on this please. Show nested quote +
Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work.
No, it is tyranny. We are being tyrannized by the incestuous oligarchy of corporations and government, who have totally subverted the democratic process and are ruining this great country. Show nested quote +
All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government,
This is factually incorrect, go read about it. For every harsh truth they are forced to reveal, the government propagates ten of their lies. and the FDA which is in the pocket of agribusiness has an elaborate system of allowing them to make totally misleading health claims. The regulatory agencies in charge of this stuff are totally dysfunctional, because of political pressure from the lobbyists and the privileging of economic growth over the health of our people. go read about the clusterfuck that was the McGovern committee which produced our utter bullshit "food pyramid" Show nested quote +
Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons.
It's not a level playing field. It's the plutocrats standing on top of a mountain pissing down on the people. We have no separation of powers at all. That's why we live in a tyranny.
"proving better options" is a common tale of school districts adding tasteless potatoes, old fruit and wondering why they don't pick anything other then the french fries pizza and soda for lunch. It got into our schools beacuse it made money for the school districts I don't have to go read another one of your books to know that simple fact.
I don't know how to argue that pizza and soda doesn't taste good when I eat pizza, drink soda and they taste good.
You sing and dance a song about how corporations are bad, organic food is good when schools will never buy organic food and will be buying their food from corporations because they're better at making food for schools. When schools want different food they'll get it and the last time I checked they were still under control by local governments who haven't changed what kind of food they want.
Agriculture is the core of ours and every single economy in the world. The fact that we do so well at it that we can afford to not farm on some land and still export food is a clear example of it. The corn and soy subsidies ensure a stable powerful core to the economy that the rest of the world wish's they had.
You believe in an "education" so that the government can teach the kids what is right for them. I believe in an education for kids to be able to decide whats best for themselves. Thats the difference between out political philosophies.
I proposed a solution that makes sense and you cast it away in a sarcastic line like its nothing. Glad to see your not close minded on your government first ideology.
Corporations got to where they are for a reason. They've been chosen to be better by the ruthless crucible of capitalism. They did not subvert any democratic process they used the economic process in this country. They aren't ruining this country they are this country. Capitalism won us the cold war and has brought us to become the worlds only super power. Its what brought china out of the darkness and into the world. Its no more tyranny then the tyranny of the 2 party system in america.
I just looked at my monster and read everything's that in it. If they didn't show everything thats in it they couldn't sell monster to me. A regulatory agency is in the pocket of the industry that its suppose to regulate? What madness is this? Corruption is always going to be there where it can and unless you want another McCarthy style series of trials its not going to change and even when it does it'll just get worse. You've again described the problem of a system and none of the problems that caused the problem of the system.
And to that last bit stop living in some idealistic fantasy land where they're won't be plutocrats pissing down on the rest of us. We have a separation of powers and its just a law of nature that those powers will influence each other for their own gain. You will always live in a tyranny, in ours we've chosen out tyrants and please agree with me that thats some good thing.
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On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 07:15 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:
Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options.
you must be missing the part where I've been saying "we should provide better options." there's a whole history of how fast food got into schools, it didn't use to be that way. again, I recommend Marion Nestle's book Food Politics.
People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good.
Pizza and soda DONT taste good. People develop those habits. Non americans who weren't brought up eating that junk all think we're crazy. I don't eat junk food anymore, and now it all tastes like artificial crap to me. We are taught to eat that way.
You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice.
"agribusiness"...? Yeah, I'm the big bad "eat your veggies" lobby, you've discovered my secret plan. Actually, I'm in favor of this "small business" right wingers are always nattering on about and then fucking over with their corporate-dick-sucking agenda. local agriculture bro. create some jobs.
Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there.
factory farming is so cheap mainly because we subsidize the fuck out of it, so we can feed our population cheap food instead of just paying them a living wage so they can eat real food. End the corn and soy subsidies, start calculating externalities for environmental degradation, air pollution, land value degradation for communities in proximity to factory farms, and then we can talk about economics. The economics of food in our country are totally artificial, propped up by the farm lobby.
Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make.
No, I believe in education. This may be the difference between our political philosophies.
Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's.
great, get your team on this please.
Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work.
No, it is tyranny. We are being tyrannized by the incestuous oligarchy of corporations and government, who have totally subverted the democratic process and are ruining this great country.
All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government,
This is factually incorrect, go read about it. For every harsh truth they are forced to reveal, the government propagates ten of their lies. and the FDA which is in the pocket of agribusiness has an elaborate system of allowing them to make totally misleading health claims. The regulatory agencies in charge of this stuff are totally dysfunctional, because of political pressure from the lobbyists and the privileging of economic growth over the health of our people. go read about the clusterfuck that was the McGovern committee which produced our utter bullshit "food pyramid"
Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons.
It's not a level playing field. It's the plutocrats standing on top of a mountain pissing down on the people. We have no separation of powers at all. That's why we live in a tyranny. "proving better options" is a common tale of school districts adding tasteless potatoes, old fruit and wondering why they don't pick anything other then the french fries pizza and soda for lunch. It got into our schools beacuse it made money for the school districts I don't have to go read another one of your books to know that simple fact.
why do the school districts need to whore themselves out to make money? I agree that they haven't done a good job of food at all, that's a longer story and it doesn't invalidate what I'm saying.
I don't know how to argue that pizza and soda doesn't taste good when I eat pizza, drink soda and they taste good.
It's your culture's diet. you were raised to eat it. it's still terrible for you, and the rest of us have to pay the social costs for the terrible diet. If you started eating real food, you'd find it tastes much better, I promise, and then that stuff would taste like the crap it is.
the rest of your post is ignorant nonsense and I've got nothing more to say about it, the peanut gallery can decide which of us sounds more reasonable
edit:
On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:
we've chosen out tyrants
not me, I'm totally disenfranchised and nobody represents my interests. I am quite literally being taxed without representation.
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On February 25 2013 09:01 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:On February 25 2013 07:15 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:
Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options.
you must be missing the part where I've been saying "we should provide better options." there's a whole history of how fast food got into schools, it didn't use to be that way. again, I recommend Marion Nestle's book Food Politics.
People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good.
Pizza and soda DONT taste good. People develop those habits. Non americans who weren't brought up eating that junk all think we're crazy. I don't eat junk food anymore, and now it all tastes like artificial crap to me. We are taught to eat that way.
You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice.
"agribusiness"...? Yeah, I'm the big bad "eat your veggies" lobby, you've discovered my secret plan. Actually, I'm in favor of this "small business" right wingers are always nattering on about and then fucking over with their corporate-dick-sucking agenda. local agriculture bro. create some jobs.
Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there.
factory farming is so cheap mainly because we subsidize the fuck out of it, so we can feed our population cheap food instead of just paying them a living wage so they can eat real food. End the corn and soy subsidies, start calculating externalities for environmental degradation, air pollution, land value degradation for communities in proximity to factory farms, and then we can talk about economics. The economics of food in our country are totally artificial, propped up by the farm lobby.
Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make.
No, I believe in education. This may be the difference between our political philosophies.
Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's.
great, get your team on this please.
Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work.
No, it is tyranny. We are being tyrannized by the incestuous oligarchy of corporations and government, who have totally subverted the democratic process and are ruining this great country.
All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government,
This is factually incorrect, go read about it. For every harsh truth they are forced to reveal, the government propagates ten of their lies. and the FDA which is in the pocket of agribusiness has an elaborate system of allowing them to make totally misleading health claims. The regulatory agencies in charge of this stuff are totally dysfunctional, because of political pressure from the lobbyists and the privileging of economic growth over the health of our people. go read about the clusterfuck that was the McGovern committee which produced our utter bullshit "food pyramid"
Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons.
It's not a level playing field. It's the plutocrats standing on top of a mountain pissing down on the people. We have no separation of powers at all. That's why we live in a tyranny. "proving better options" is a common tale of school districts adding tasteless potatoes, old fruit and wondering why they don't pick anything other then the french fries pizza and soda for lunch. It got into our schools beacuse it made money for the school districts I don't have to go read another one of your books to know that simple fact. why do the school districts need to whore themselves out to make money? I agree that they haven't done a good job of food at all, that's a longer story and it doesn't invalidate what I'm saying.
Good question. I can't imagine lunch money is a huge part of a school's overall budget.
Edit: Actually I bet the answer is "because it's easy"
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It's not the food. It's the advertising dollars they're getting to cover general budget shortfalls because it's easy to slash education money for inner-city kids, because they're not real people and we don't care about them. your tax base erodes because of white-flight to the tax-haven suburbs, and so you have to turn to soft drink companies to fund education. the rich use the fiction of different cities that are all the same city to avoid their social responsibilities and become parasites on society.
On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:
I just looked at my monster and read everything's that in it.
but you don't know what any of those things are, or what they do to you. you just have a list of chemicals that, if you were capable of being intellectually honest, you would admit that you don't know the first thing about.
On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:
A regulatory agency is in the pocket of the industry that its suppose to regulate? What madness is this? Corruption is always going to be there where it can and unless you want another McCarthy style series of trials its not going to change and even when it does it'll just get worse.
you heard it here first, folks! republicans are pro-corruption, and if you ever try to fight against corruption, then you're like a republican censoring free speech.
On February 25 2013 07:57 Sermokala wrote:
I don't have to go read another one of your books to know that simple fact.
one of those "books" of mine, eh? do they have those in red states? or do you just learn everything with truthiness?
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On February 25 2013 06:40 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 06:33 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 06:31 Sermokala wrote:On February 25 2013 06:20 sam!zdat wrote:
yeah, i give up, let's keep spending public money on hamburgers and soda for poor people, so we can turn our money attention and time to something useful, like, oh, making sure that them homos can't get hitched Lets create a food stamp program that we can't pay for and won't be used by people who will just use the money to buy soda and hamburgers anyway and spending the rest on drugs. so let's create a functional educational system and tax rich people to pay for it. in this functional education system, we can teach people how to eat, like the french do, civilized people that they are. instead of teaching people to drink soda, which is literally what we are doing now (cf. Channel One) We both know that the democrat party has no actual ability to make an aducation system with how far they're in the can with the teacher unions. Now you're proposing that we teach people how to eat as if the government knows whats best for them? We don't teach people to drink soda we teach them to make choices with what they eat and its not your place to say that they're making the wrong choices. If you want them to make better decisions give them better choices to make and not shitty ones.
This debate about school food is interesting.
Didnt knew schools in the usa served fast food and am quiet suprised by this.
There few isues i have with your arguing.
"Now you're proposing that we teach people how to eat as if the government knows whats best for them? "
No its not government who decides what is best, its parents and science.
There been done a lot of research on food and scientist have established a balanced diet ages ago, noone will argue that soda is bad for your health (mostly the tooth).
It is also perfectly fine to deny children the choise, parents make choises for their children all the time because children tend to sometimes make choices they regret. So why should they not be able to do so when the kid is at school?
Off course children will pick the french frites and soda over an apple and orange juice, thats how children are but that does not mean that thats an informed and a good choise? nor that we should present them with even more choices like pie, pancakes and icecream?
This is just basic uprising of children and in the absence of parents the school has to take care of a part of this.
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soda is bad for you for many reasons other than dental health, for the record
On February 25 2013 09:21 Rassy wrote:
Off course children will pick the french frites and soda over an apple and orange juice, thats how children are but that does not mean that thats an informed and a good choise? nor that we should present them with even more choices like pie, pancakes and icecream?
This is just basic uprising of children and in the absence of parents the school has to take care of a part of this.
it's in the interest of capitalism never to teach kids how to make good choices. the subject in capitalist society remains an toddler his entire life, demanding "I me me mine" and throwing a temper tantrum whenever he doesn't get it. our culture does not believe in disciplining children - only spoiling them to their own long-term detriment. we remain, for the large part, in a permanently infantile state. (this last is a theme which fascinates me in general, and applies to more things, not all of them bad: c.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny)
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On February 25 2013 09:07 sam!zdat wrote:
It's not the food. It's the advertising dollars they're getting to cover general budget shortfalls because it's easy to slash education money for inner-city kids, because they're not real people and we don't care about them. your tax base erodes because of white-flight to the tax-haven suburbs, and so you have to turn to soft drink companies to fund education. the rich use the fiction of different cities that are all the same city to avoid their social responsibilities and become parasites on society.
I think you are generalizing too much. Sometimes inner city schools spend more per kid, sometimes not.
Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach).
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I feel greatly offended by your last couple posts. I don't know if your trying at this point but I felt that before that you were doing a pretty good job of not being an uptight prick trying to throw as much mud as you could possibly create out of thin air. Have at least a shred of self respect, civility and you'll get that in return.
You decided to not argue my points so I'll accept your concession that I'm right on all of them. You say that my whole post is filled with nonsense and then you go on and spew out weak bullshit about my entire post. At least have some cohesiveness in your rabid idealistic garbage you expect people to consider as actual things. I don't know why I have to tell you this but you need points and then supporting arguments. One without the other doesn't help anyone.
We should give them healthy choices like roasted corn on the cob or a baked potato. Studies have been made in the live that a small increase in how much schools spend on a better diet for children in inner city schools wildly bettered their attitude and performance in the school.
The major problem with school lunches isn't the price or whatnot of it its the price that they have to pay for free breakfasts and lunches for poor kids whos parents can't afford to feed them those 2 meals a day quite frankly. I lived in a poor third tier suburb school district and over half of the kids who went was on that "free lunch" programs the whole time.
On February 25 2013 09:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:07 sam!zdat wrote:
It's not the food. It's the advertising dollars they're getting to cover general budget shortfalls because it's easy to slash education money for inner-city kids, because they're not real people and we don't care about them. your tax base erodes because of white-flight to the tax-haven suburbs, and so you have to turn to soft drink companies to fund education. the rich use the fiction of different cities that are all the same city to avoid their social responsibilities and become parasites on society.
I think you are generalizing too much. Sometimes inner city schools spend more per kid, sometimes not. Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach).
Taxes that are mostly paid to schools are property taxes from those nice house's that the "whities" used to live in the inner city.
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On February 25 2013 10:18 Sermokala wrote:
You decided to not argue my points so I'll accept your concession that I'm right on all of them.
your post was just the same old ideology and I think people already know how I feel about it. I'm not going to pretend like we're not enemies - I don't think you're a reasonable person.
On February 25 2013 09:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach).
I grew up in the land of white flight, I know all about it. the commercial tax and industrial tax bases are no excuse for the totally unjustified and outright racist apartheid of the property tax base.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
white flight and property based segregation seems to be a more obvious problem in the midwest, chicagoland
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On February 25 2013 10:39 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:18 Sermokala wrote:
You decided to not argue my points so I'll accept your concession that I'm right on all of them. your post was just the same old ideology and I think people already know how I feel about it. I'm not going to pretend like we're not enemies - I don't think you're a reasonable person. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach). I grew up in the land of white flight, I know all about it. the commercial tax and industrial tax bases are no excuse for the totally unjustified and outright racist apartheid of the property tax base.
Who gives a shit if you think its "the same old ideology" You have the same old ideology as every other r/politics brogressive poster and I gave you the light of day to debate your points. You aren't campaigning for anything so get over this "I think people already know how I feel about it". Its nice to know you aren't comfortable with your politics enough to have anything resembling a debate with someone that doesn't agree with you.
I grew up in the land were supposedly all the white people left to(like 98% white in my class) and the schools weren't any better. Sure the parents actually had an interest in their childrens lives so it was a highly ranked school nontheless (couldn't do shit in basketball but our quiz bowl team couldn't do anything but go to state every year) But those people left the cities because they didn't have children anymore and didn't want to pay taxes on their nice house's. Stop confusing a simple socioeconomic situation with accusing people of being kkk lovers. You've gone far over the line of being reasonable and now you're just being a bag person.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 25 2013 12:35 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:39 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 10:18 Sermokala wrote:
You decided to not argue my points so I'll accept your concession that I'm right on all of them. your post was just the same old ideology and I think people already know how I feel about it. I'm not going to pretend like we're not enemies - I don't think you're a reasonable person. On February 25 2013 09:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach). I grew up in the land of white flight, I know all about it. the commercial tax and industrial tax bases are no excuse for the totally unjustified and outright racist apartheid of the property tax base. Who gives a shit if you think its "the same old ideology" You have the same old ideology as every other r/politics brogressive poster and I gave you the light of day to debate your points. You aren't campaigning for anything so get over this "I think people already know how I feel about it". Its nice to know you aren't comfortable with your politics enough to have anything resembling a debate with someone that doesn't agree with you. I grew up in the land were supposedly all the white people left to(like 98% white in my class) and the schools weren't any better. Sure the parents actually had an interest in their childrens lives so it was a highly ranked school nontheless (couldn't do shit in basketball but our quiz bowl team couldn't do anything but go to state every year) But those people left the cities because they didn't have children anymore and didn't want to pay taxes on their nice house's. Stop confusing a simple socioeconomic situation with accusing people of being kkk lovers. You've gone far over the line of being reasonable and now you're just being a bag person.
bolded part shows how out of touch you are. if those are your problems in your 'bad' school, what kind of shit school must the ghetto kids have?
lol omg my school's escalators are broken all the time and my safety is nyu.
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On February 25 2013 10:39 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:18 Sermokala wrote:
You decided to not argue my points so I'll accept your concession that I'm right on all of them. your post was just the same old ideology and I think people already know how I feel about it. I'm not going to pretend like we're not enemies - I don't think you're a reasonable person. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Also let's not exaggerate the affects of white flight. As long as the whities are working in the city there's still the commercial and industrial tax base (and fewer white kids to teach). I grew up in the land of white flight, I know all about it. the commercial tax and industrial tax bases are no excuse for the totally unjustified and outright racist apartheid of the property tax base.
Well I'm certainly not going to tell you that it isn't a problem where you live. It isn't a big problem in MA though.
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On February 25 2013 07:05 Sermokala wrote:Thats given to them in school because the schools don't provide better options. People would be willing to eat other things that arn't pizza and soda if pizza and soda wasn't the only thing that tasted good. You say "get all advertising out of school" and then you go and say we should be advertising that they should be eating the vegetables of agribusiness corporations, nice. Take them to a factory farm tell them the price of the food they eat there then take them to an organic farm and tell them the price to eat there. Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america. You have to work with their decisions and make the choices you want them to make better then the ones you don't want them to make. Make vegetables and fruits in the same lines as how the government sells milk and cheese to schools. Tax fast food and soda the same line as cigeretts and tabbaco to pay for the health care increase's. Corporations exertiting their will onto the government to make the playing field better isn't tyranny its just the way things work. All they're doing is acting the same as any person or any other rational actor would do to better themselves. They are forced to disseminate obviously true and useful information about their products by the government, Thats not tyranny thats just the government ensuring a level playing field. Corporations are no less influential then the government, People made them both powerful for separate but equally important reasons. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 06:53 Souma wrote:
Anyway, "others have tried and fail" is not an argument, and it never will be. Just do it right and fix what those other states couldn't. Not saying it'll work out for South Carolina, but if they learn from the others' mistakes maybe they can be successful. At the very least, I admire the initiative. You're absolutely mad on this. Of course "others have tried and failed" is an argument and a really good one. Do you want a communist government or a faceist government? Do you want a Cesar chosen by the senate or a king to rule the land? The definition of madness is repeating the same thing over and over again and thinking that somehow the outcome will be different. The south Carolina government knows that its not going to succeed with this and anyone who thinks different shares in this madness.
"Don't keep trying to fight people making choices if you want anything to work out in america"
You completely ignore my argument regarding choices,how conveniently.
They are children and not adults, they dont have the right to make choices about what they eat, the parents do that for them.
And as such its perfectly fine for the parents to choose directly or indirectly (by voting) what food a school should offer to their kids.
Pls give me a response to this argument.
Another quote from you:
"Now you're proposing that we teach people how to eat as if the government knows whats best for them"
No,we are proposing that parents teach their kids how to eat, because the parents ought to know whats best for them.
You keep treating these kids as adults with a right to make every choise for themselves.
These are NOT adults and parents DO have a say in the choises they make.
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Why can't protesters in America be this sexy?
Italian Topless Protestors Against Former Prime Minister Berlusco
+ Show Spoiler +
Edit: Never mind, we're too fat... 
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EPT
