The only exceptions being related to oil and other highly volatile products with high inelasticities of demand.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 113
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
acker
United States2958 Posts
The only exceptions being related to oil and other highly volatile products with high inelasticities of demand. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
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TotalBalanceSC2
Canada475 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:47 TerribleNoobling wrote: An excellent question. Oppenheimer demonstrates in 'The State' that government originates through one tribe conquering and then exploiting and oppressing another. I do agree that liberty is fleeting but that simply means we must redouble our efforts to defend it. But would not the original tribe, even before conquering the other tribe, have a discernible method for governing/organizing itself? After all if it is recognized as a tribe it must have some form of structure to recognize it by. So then the government predates the conquering and oppression and is simply a method of organization. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:52 TerribleNoobling wrote: I await your quantitative analysis of capital vs consumer goods industries acker. I recommend this book, for an excellent analysis of this topic: http://www.amazon.com/Limits-Capital-New-updated/dp/1844670953 edit: the short answer to your question is that investments into fixed capital must anticipate a longer time horizon, and therefore are more prone to error, and therefore are more volatile | ||
acker
United States2958 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:52 TerribleNoobling wrote: I await your quantitative analysis of capital vs consumer goods industries acker. I'm not spending a couple hours on research that will do absolutely nothing to change your mind. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
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TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:53 sam!zdat wrote: I recommend this book, for an excellent analysis of this topic: http://www.amazon.com/Limits-Capital-New-updated/dp/1844670953 edit: the short answer to your question is that investments into fixed capital must anticipate a longer time horizon, and therefore are more prone to error, and therefore are more volatile and I will recommend this for you : http://mises.org/tradcycl/econdepr.asp my book has the advantage of being available online for free | ||
sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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TotalBalanceSC2
Canada475 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:54 TerribleNoobling wrote: The depression really hits industries like machine tools, capital equipment, construction, and raw materials. Obviously all industries are affected, but these industries are affected more heavily than the others. Well obviously, people need food, clothing, etcetera to survive so they will continue to buy consumer goods just not as much. The makers of the consumer goods, after seeing a drop in the demand for their products will no longer see a need to buy new capital equipment for making their consumer goods as they are already capable of filling their demand. Hence the capital goods get hit worse because they lose almost all of their business while the consumer goods do better because they only lose some of their business. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
Although I guess we could be talking about something like the difference between strategy and tactics. I.e. I'm answering the why and you're answering the how. | ||
sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On February 18 2013 11:04 TerribleNoobling wrote: That's one explanation. Another is that resources were misallocated to capital goods industries because artificially low interest rates fooled entrepreneurs into malinvesting in these capital goods industries, and as the smoke cleared and these investments were proven to be uneconomic they were liquidated so that resources could be reallocated to better fulfill consumer demand. Which begs the question as to why almost all industries had serious unemployment issues for four years and counting. Or why countries that kept abnormally low interest rates on capital recovered, on average, faster than countries that raised interest rates on capital. | ||
radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:54 TerribleNoobling wrote: The depression really hits industries like machine tools, capital equipment, construction, and raw materials. Obviously all industries are affected, but these industries are affected more heavily than the others. As far as I know, what started the current downturn was the capital. When their money got tight the number of loans dropped. The question is then: Who would have taken up those loans? If your answer is ie. all of the above (and/or their consumers), the question becomes: How can you claim anything about severity differences when they are so heavily correlated? The only reason why you would blame the state is if you do not blame capital industries, which seems a bit naive given how the crisis started. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On February 18 2013 10:35 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote: In good economic times the breaking of the window might not be much of a net benefit but when in a depression sometimes the expenditure of money then can lead to better long term growth allowing for everyone to benefit. If I can use a little anecdote, The shopkeeper, the baker, the carpenter and tailor all have been suffering lately due to a drop in business, they are all saving what money they have due to the fact they are worried about the state of the economy. A kid breaks the shopkeepers window so he has to pay money to the carpenter to fix it. Now that the carpenter has some more money he feels a little safer in buying some more food from the baker. By now the shopkeeper has had his window fixed and is operating again. The baker decides to buy a new suit from tailor which allows the tailor to buy some toys from the shop for Christmas. Now that people feel safer that business has returned to more profitable levels they feel safer spending money which allows all the business's to keep growing. Of course if the economy had already been running smoothly the broken window would have no discernible net benefit but that was hardly the case in the great depression. The war among other things acted like the spark that starts the fire, at least in my opinion. The story still doesn't work for the poor shopkeep though. Getting $1,000 in sales later on does little for his income. Assuming a generous 10% net profit margin the shopkeep would need to see a sales increase of $10,000 before he's made whole. That won't happen and so the shopkeep will need to cut some other expense to make up for it (either a business expense to raise up his income or cut into his personal consumption). At best I can see a temporary increase in total income from this. For some reason more money was being saved than borrowed and the broken window unlocked some of it. But so what? No one is getting rich off of just one broken window. Ramp it up (break lots of windows) and the results can change dramatically. At some point the shopkeep is just going to say "Fucking assholes!! That's it - I'm closing my shop!" and then everyone loses... | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 18 2013 11:12 TerribleNoobling wrote: No the problem with the current downtown was that Greenspan was attempting to reinflate the economy after the NASDAQ crash. His easy money policy fueled the housing bubble. finally, you say something remotely true | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On February 18 2013 11:06 sam!zdat wrote: how can entrepreneurs be fooled? I thought entrepreneurs were rational actors in an efficient market, who process all information perfectly and instantaneously? I don't think it is assumed that entrepreneurs have perfect information. Otherwise there wouldn't be a point to adjusting for risk. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
Which begs the question as to why almost all industries had serious unemployment issues for four years and counting. Well go on, if you have an alternate theory of the boom bust cycle I'm dying to hear it. The unemployment had a number of factors, not least of which was the effort to prop up wages. Any enforced minimum price leads to unsold surplus and an unsold surplus of labour is unemployment. Increases in government spending broadly burdened the economy, the Davis-Bacon act was probably the worst thing you could do (not to mention heavily racist, just like the quotas in South Africa during apartheid, with the same intent and effect)... in 1932 Hoover made some drastic increases in taxes which is obviously going to aggravate the problem, but over all the main problem with regards to unemployment was preventing wages from falling. | ||
TerribleNoobling
Azerbaijan179 Posts
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