EPTThe New Roach Queen (No Gas on Roach)
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
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MyFirstProbe
Netherlands294 Posts
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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Jukez
United States51 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:12 Zaphid wrote: Theorycrafting changes is frowned upon here, mostly because it's pointless, teamliquid isn't making the patches, Blizzard is. beat me to it. | ||
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arcane1129
United States273 Posts
You compare different units across different races using different mechanics that somehow leads you to protoss needing a probe upgrade!? Edit: I'm going to assume this is a troll post and continue on my merry way | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5225 Posts
Sadly, no. Anyway, different races are different. The larva mechanic is an advantage to Zerg, while other races have other advantages. It is what makes the game interesting. | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
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ChaiNs
57 Posts
My counter-argument is that the races are designed to be different, and to function differently. The fact that zerg can produce units and drones from 1 structure is a double edged sword. It means that if a zerg produces only roaches, they aren't making drones. Meanwhile, T and P don't suffer in quite the same way because they have different structures to produce units and workers separately. I don't think a change is necessary to limit zerg's production because zerg design heavily focuses on unit production and the choices that that entails. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
Was disappoint. | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
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jupidar
United States229 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:21 ch33psh33p wrote: Was expecting baller-wannabe. Was disappoint. Same. Also, OP seems to want zerg to have more gas to spend on infestors, since roaches would require none. | ||
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contv
35 Posts
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
Closed thread, goodbye. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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shockaslim
United States1105 Posts
Secondly, your idea is A) Too confusing. B) Much too restricting. and C) Does not address any real game issues. | ||
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Viperbird
United States118 Posts
Stalkers also cost 2x as much gas as a marauder and die in a straight up fight, and as soon as roaches and stalkers have +2 attack, roaches and stalkers are even in a fight as well, but it never ends up like this because of other circumstances, mobility, and how the different races work. ...And roaches not costing gas? How does this even make sense? You can max out on drones only around 10 mins, so if roaches didnt cost gas, i would say this timing would be about the same... I dont see how any of this makes any sense. | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
My bad, would delete thread if I could. | ||
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Venom2
United States64 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:35 Kyfoid wrote: My bad, would delete thread if I could. untill then plz repost the orginal becouse its yust silly to look at it right now | ||
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TsGBruzze
Sweden1190 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:21 ch33psh33p wrote: same here Was expecting baller-wannabe. Was disappoint.  | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
That a "Roach Queen" could be an option outside of regular queen and could spawn larvaes that make roach only, and that perhaps these roaches might be able to cost minerals only, the roach queen would unlock the roach. Like, for example.. You see reactors on terran's barracks... You counter act with roach queens... As for the new mobile protoss unit, not sure if it would be good against lings or roaches. I'll just post that picture I had up here... ![[image loading]](http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag36/MattElevener/ProtossMissingMobility.png) | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
 but This will be closed soon anyway. | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:55 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Roaches are the one of the strongest units in the game give zealot +4 range and see how you like it but This will be closed soon anyway.I know, which is why my point is to have a roach queen that unlocks the roach but roaches are now limited to the larvae spawns of this one particular queen. You are always deciding Should i make roach queen or should I make regular queen? Should I spawn roach larvae or regular larvae? (As you can't share larvae casts on one hatch) that sort of thing. I'm quite aware of how roaches obliterate zealots. I think that protoss have a problem when they decide to go the "Forge macro" direction from the start.... It's like, why take the non aggressive defensive position? zerg is going to take the map and the only option you have is to cheese with cannons, you are kind of setting yourself up for failure... Which is why I am pointing out where a new unit could be put in, my thought was that it could be pretty cool if transformed from probe. The best defense is a good offense... but where is the legit option to offend after making forge? You have to switch clear over to the gateway if you don't want to cheese... Can you guys kind of see what I'm trying to get at here?? No spark of potential at all? So let's take protoss for example, I already explained how zerg would decide between either one of the queens if they saw reactors or tech labs. But let's say zerg sees protoss makeing gateway from the start. Ok, so zerg starts making roach queens because they assume zealots. On the other hand, protoss could switch to forge, which unlocks this new unit that is good at taking out roaches... But that one guy did have a good point when he said that roaches aren't even unlocked that early... What if this roach queen could be made before pool? Like to either choose spawning pool or the roach queen? | ||
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Illiterate
Netherlands49 Posts
On a side note, please stop talking. | ||
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FaDeWelshy
Australia9 Posts
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
I observe that T and P always mix Zealots and Marines with Marauders and Immortals when countering roaches... because they always have SOME marines and zealots laying around. Why does zerg need pure roach production unlocked across all hatcheries to combat zealots and marines? Can't zerg counter marines/zealots in the same way that T and P counter roaches? Doesn't a MIx of Zergling/Roach suffice? With that said, why can't zerg decide between a roach queen or a regular queen? And the roach cost Minerals alone? The cost of the roach being a decision..... Not a gas resource.... | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
On November 18 2012 07:29 Kyfoid wrote: Closed thread, goodbye. ~~ looking at your attitude, this post, and those edited posts make me sick. I guess you're 10 or 12 years old kid who has nothing to do but zerg fanboi and trolling around on internet. well, next time, please think carefully and post anything with a better attitude regard | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
But let's examine a ZvP matchup.... Each race would have two options form the start... Zerg's two options 1. Roach Queen 2. Spawning Pool Protoss' two options 1. Forge (unlocks new unit good at fighting roaches, perhaps morophed in to by probe) 2. Gateway The Rock Paper Scissors Meta Concept Rock: Lead with Roach queen Paper: Lead with Spawning Pool Scissors: Leave options open and react based on what opponent gets Rock: Lead with Forge (with new mobile unit that counters roaches. Paper: Lead with Gateway Scissors: Leave options open and react based on what you see Rock: Tech lab Paper: Reactor Scissors: options left open with no addon to barrack. | ||
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wozzot
United States1227 Posts
Your "Roach Queen" and "Roach Larvae" are mockeries of Blizzard canon | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
And it doesn't have an attack to fend off scouters. (just adding that) Wait, the roach queen would be able to parallel produce roaches from itself... But it wouldn't do so using larvae or spawn larvae obviously... But this parallel production stays fitting for zerg's parallel production style... Then roaches could cost minerals only... But the interesting part comes down to whether protoss chooses to forge first, and morph his probe in to something that beats roach Or would he decide to make gateway first, and go zealots, triggering zerg to make roach queens? Perhaps the parallel production limit would be a max of 2? And it doesn't have to be called a roach queen... Could be called anything. The roach ..... King? And maybe this Roach king could mate with the queen so that the queen would parallel give birth to two roaches at a time.... A max parallel roach production of 2.... Ahh, who am I kidding, insects don't give natural births like that... woops. At this point, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how this parallel production would be different then the parallel production that terran has with marines fromt the reactor... What if the roaches produced from this "Roach Producer" what ever it is, HAD to produce roaches in pairs... like, you had to make both roaches at the same time... sort of familiar to how larvae make zerglings in pairs... | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
Hydraroach > roach queen. Also, if you want your thread deleted, you tell a mod, you don't just say "thread closed" or crap like that. In any case, this is a solution looking for a problem. User was warned for this post | ||
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Kyfoid
15 Posts
The forge unlocks a new unit that is either warped in or morphed in to by the probe, because protoss is missing a mobile method of macro with a legit offensive proxy means if they choose to make forge first. I showed this in my chart.... The new unit would be good against roaches While zerg, would choose between "Roach Queen" or spawning pool from the start. This roach queen would parallel produce 2 roaches at a time to stay different from terran's reactor production, and familiar to paired zergling production... Roaches could now cost minerals only and wouldn't wreck the ability for zerg to keep their gas options open through out the game. Everything with this idea makes sense in regard to making a choice based on what you see.... Between ALL of the races... The cost of the roach now comes out of a decision, not a gas cost... | ||
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